Virgin America QOL

[Andy]

What $200 million injection? Yet another baseless comment passed as fact.

DCMartin stated that the $200M was a rumor. I speculated on how, if true, it would give VX some more life. Both posts were unambiguous and I question the intelligence of anyone who could possibly misconstrue either DCMartin's or my comments as 'fact'.

Do you really believe these exact numbers, and that's how it works? Operational profit versus net loss, where the airline makes money from the operation side of things, which is the airline itself. All money is borrowed (equity through) the investors, and they are paid back from the operational profit. If it really worked the way you are describing, this airline would need a serious cash infusion every quarter. There is more than meets the eye with how this privately held company operates.

Are you unable to use an internet search engine? Even Chazz learned to work the Google on the internet machine. Allow me to walk you through the cold, hard numbers.
Article 1, 12 Jan 2010: http://www.fenwick.com/experience/P...g-DOT-Clearance-Obtaining-68-4M-Debt-Fin.aspx
Fifth paragraph: In addition, as part of the proposed transaction, Virgin America made substantial revisions to its governance and control documents and obtained an additional $68.4 million in unsecured debt from its shareholders. In 2007 and 2008, Fenwick represented Virgin America in several rounds of financing, raising over $500 million in debt and equity – the most ever for a new domestic airline.

Article 2, 21 Dec 2011: http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfranc...gin-america-raises-cash-cushion.html?page=all
First paragraph: Virgin America Inc. raised $150 million from hedge funds, a cash injection the airline said could carry it to a possible IPO.

I didn't spend very much time searching so there may be additional rounds of funding. Now let's do the math.
Article 1 mentions 'over $500M in debt and equity' in 2007 and 2008.
Article 1 mentions an additional $68.4M in unsecured debt. (2010)
Article 2 mentions $150M in cash injection (2011)
Over $500M + $68.4M + $150M = Over $718.4M invested in VX.

 

[Flyer1015]

And again, your point?

And what do you mean by adding a second FLL for "good measure"?

 

[jonjuan]

And what do you mean by adding a second FLL for "good measure"?

Keeping the boot pressure on the neck?

 

[Andy]

And again, your point?

And what do you mean by adding a second FLL for "good measure"?

Seriously? Sharks smell blood in the water. They're going to keep attacking until Sir Richard coughs up large coin. Until they see VX on more solid financial footing, they'll keep adding competing flights. That's why I said that if the $200M rumor was true, it would be huge ... I suspect it's just wishful thinking on someone's part.
They don't have to take a ton of VX's traffic; their strategy is to skim off 3-5% of the load factor because those last few seats are the highest revenue seats. Are you new to the airline business?

 

[Flyer1015]

Seriously? Sharks smell blood in the water. They're going to keep attacking until Sir Richard coughs up large coin. Until they see VX on more solid financial footing, they'll keep adding competing flights. That's why I said that if the $200M rumor was true, it would be huge ... I suspect it's just wishful thinking on someone's part.
They don't have to take a ton of VX's traffic; their strategy is to skim off 3-5% of the load factor because those last few seats are the highest revenue seats. Are you new to the airline business?

Mr. I have an economics major and I'll throw it at your face, FLL is a strong leisure market that is already well covered by Spirit and JetBlue. Neither of them are "skimming" the high revenue VX passenger. Most of VX's high revenue passengers are loyal, and it's why VX has been around today. The last minute traveller will pay a price, but at that point, flight timg is critical over a brand.

Airlines are competitive and are always competing with each other. Your "good measure" comment is baseless, because Jetblue isn't pulling a finishing move on VX. Good measure means when you've already done something, you do a lil more to ensure it by an extra margin.

No I'm not new to the airline industry, but I'm also not nuts deep into airline threads that I've never worked at past/present/future.

 

[redflyer65]

What $200 million injection? Yet another baseless comment passed as fact.

Your acting like this rumor of another 200 million is a bad thing?

VX desperately needs money like that. I would think you'd be happy that the possiblity of another cash infusion would be true.

The route structure remains a disaster until they can connect more dots, and at this point that's going to require more planes. As Andy stated, the big players in each market aren't just going to let VX have a pass. They will add frequency and incentives (like and extra 5k frequent flier miles, etc).

 

[Andy]

Red, trying to have an intelligent discussion with flyer1015 is impossible. The subject matter is well beyond his ability to comprehend.
It took me a couple of minutes to look up the amount of investment capital that VX has burned through to date. He continually demonstrates that he is incapable of finding even simple public information.

 

[Flyer1015]

Red, trying to have an intelligent discussion with flyer1015 is impossible. The subject matter is well beyond his ability to comprehend.
It took me a couple of minutes to look up the amount of investment capital that VX has burned through to date. He continually demonstrates that he is incapable of finding even simple public information.

The only thing public is what they decide to show you. I can find those public statements but I have no reason to. Intelligent discussion? What intelligent discussion has there been between you and all the other nay sayers? You've already said VX will need another injection of 100 million to make it through this year, 2013, which you based on cash burn through last 12 months. Your words have been cast, we shall see. Why don't you give your estimated date of VX shutting down? Through your "intellectual" posts, that is the one thing behind them all without you actually saying it.

 

[Flyer1015]

Your acting like this rumor of another 200 million is a bad thing?

VX desperately needs money like that. I would think you'd be happy that the possiblity of another cash infusion would be true.

The route structure remains a disaster until they can connect more dots, and at this point that's going to require more planes. As Andy stated, the big players in each market aren't just going to let VX have a pass. They will add frequency and incentives (like and extra 5k frequent flier miles, etc).

That's right, I don't want another 100-200 million injection. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeated over and over again expecting a different outcome. At this point, it's like the Obama administration, sure you can print your way from 9 billion debt to 16 billion debt, but printing money only gets you so far. We need a change from the top down. The current CEO has made too many statements about profitability, and it still isn't here. That leadership has been here since 2007. So it begs an interesting point. If there really is that much loss and he wants more printed money, then leadership has failed and as with any company with an ailing financial performance, new leadership is needed, the new CEO makes the necessary changes, and points the ship in a new direction. So far, there's no sign of that. If Branson or the BOD really wanted a leadership change, they could do it. So far, there's been nothing to suggest that, which makes me think things aren't that bad otherwise, SRB or the BOD would take action and find new leadership. We shall see, time will tell. The next 12 months should be telling. Before it even comes to the point of VX folding, they will try new leadership. They have to, they owe at least that much to the investors, employees, and customers.

 

[Flyer1015]

Anyway, this thread is titled Virgin America QOL. Not "what the same 6 people think will happen to VX and how screwed they are."

Start another thread for that, let's get this thread back on point.

 

[DCMartin]

Anyway, this thread is titled Virgin America QOL. Not "what the same 6 people think will happen to VX and how screwed they are."

Start another thread for that, let's get this thread back on point.

Never had less than 18 days off. Averaged 74 hours/mth last year.
Vacation could be better but you end up working about 8 days a month when you use a week of vacation.
Sick policy is good. Accrue 5 hours a month.
Regarding time off they follow Cali Law so dads get 6 week paid Fmla, sick time can be used to care for sick family, etc..
Good CP's who for the most part advocate for the pilots.
Good culture. Great guys and gals to fly with.
Still much improvements Need to be made with pay, QOL, and soft time (particularly reserve and retirement)

 

[clickclickboom]

Here is the thing Click,
It's not my money or yours. If our investors want to keep pouring in the cash...that is their choice. Personally, if they didn't see something they liked, they would have pulled the plug a long time ago. I don't see that happening unless our new guy can't get it going in the right direction. From what I have heard, it is going better than they had hoped...(just what I have heard so far), so take that for what it is worth.

Fly Safe!

true.......

 

[DHPFLYN]

Never had less than 18 days off. Averaged 74 hours/mth last year.
Vacation could be better but you end up working about 8 days a month when you use a week of vacation.
Sick policy is good. Accrue 5 hours a month.
Regarding time off they follow Cali Law so dads get 6 week paid Fmla, sick time can be used to care for sick family, etc..
Good CP's who for the most part advocate for the pilots.
Good culture. Great guys and gals to fly with.
Still much improvements Need to be made with pay, QOL, and soft time (particularly reserve and retirement)

Thanks for the information !!
Just got email for a assessment

 

[Chairman]

Never had less than 18 days off. Averaged 74 hours/mth last year.
Vacation could be better but you end up working about 8 days a month when you use a week of vacation.
Sick policy is good. Accrue 5 hours a month.
Regarding time off they follow Cali Law so dads get 6 week paid Fmla, sick time can be used to care for sick family, etc..
Good CP's who for the most part advocate for the pilots.
Good culture. Great guys and gals to fly with.
Still much improvements Need to be made with pay, QOL, and soft time (particularly reserve and retirement)

Yes we do accrue sick time at 5 hours a month but after 6 days you are tossed on disability with the state and paid only 7 hours a week from our long term bank. Yes as a California employee you can take 12 weeks for FMLA but again through the state and not the company paid at 55% only if you have worked at least a year at VX and then its a 2 quarter looks back. Most of the perks they try to sell is there own are required by the state. Just see what they say when the state does not pay you...Mostly not our problem.

 

[DCMartin]

Yes we do accrue sick time at 5 hours a month but after 6 days you are tossed on disability with the state and paid only 7 hours a week from our long term bank. Yes as a California employee you can take 12 weeks for FMLA but again through the state and not the company paid at 55% only if you have worked at least a year at VX and then its a 2 quarter looks back. Most of the perks they try to sell is there own are required by the state. Just see what they say when the state does not pay you...Mostly not our problem.

I wouldn't say the company sells the Cali law stuff. They dont even mention it unless you dig, but I certainly enjoy the perks and it's worth mentioning as some don't even know it exists or how many things they can legitimatley use sick time for. 12 weeks FMLA is a perk of being a US citizen. Last 2 companies w kids born I took 12 weeks unpaid. Kinda nice to get 6 wks of 55% w no tax taken out. True about the sick policy but still Better then last company.

 

[Chairman]

I wouldn't say the company sells the Cali law stuff. They dont even mention it unless you dig, but I certainly enjoy the perks and it's worth mentioning as some don't even know it exists or how many things they can legitimatley use sick time for. 12 weeks FMLA is a perk of being a US citizen. Last 2 companies w kids born I took 12 weeks unpaid. Kinda nice to get 6 wks of 55% w no tax taken out. True about the sick policy but still Better then last company.

Sure they sell it as they tell you that we have a short term disability plan when infact it only pays you 5%. See how long you get by when the state delays you getting paid. And having been on FMLA here you have to constantly call the state to follow up with where you payment is. The time off was not spent enjoying my child bonding time but wondering how long I would go before getting paid. Sure would be nice if we could use our sick time like other companies but that would keep us on the company pay roll and they don't want that. The reason we are hiring is 10% of our FO's have left is the last 6 weeks to United, JetBlue, UsAir, and Sprit...

 

[banger]

We have the same problem at jetblue, which seems common at all companies without a union to gaurantee and clarify what benefits you have. At jetblue the benefits dept tell you all kinds of stories without proof and when you do end up on std/ltd you find out that much of it isn't true or there is no one to help you get what you deserve. Even when you truly deserve something it is up to you to make the point and prove to Prudential you deserve it. It is very stressful at a time when you need things to go smoothly.

 

[Flyer1015]

Sure they sell it as they tell you that we have a short term disability plan when infact it only pays you 5%. See how long you get by when the state delays you getting paid. And having been on FMLA here you have to constantly call the state to follow up with where you payment is. The time off was not spent enjoying my child bonding time but wondering how long I would go before getting paid. Sure would be nice if we could use our sick time like other companies but that would keep us on the company pay roll and they don't want that. The reason we are hiring is 10% of our FO's have left is the last 6 weeks to United, JetBlue, UsAir, and Sprit...

I'll add that the California SUI/SDI is a complete scam. Why is it that only CA and NY (the most liberal p***y states) take out state disability from your paycheck? 48 other states manage their disabled, and they do so without taking out this mandatory tax right along with Fed/Med/SS/State income. In CA, you are paying both CA state income tax and this SUI/SDI crap. Now some claims are legit for disability, but far too many can work and yet get a doctor to still sign a piece of paper that puts them on disability. I should be paying 0 dollars into state disability tax. I'm perfectly happy not relying on the state for when I get sick. The company sick time should be used, with no duration, you should be able to use it til it's drained. It's how the California SUI/SDI is set up and companies tap into it. No wonder California is a broke azz state, there's so much waste here, and so many handouts. And don't even get me started on my the response I got in regards to obtaining a CWP here in this wonderful state...

 

[HRDiva]

Actually CA, NY, NJ, RI and HI have statutory disability in addition to Puerto Rico. CA and NJ have paid family leave. Usually every crazy employment law that originates in the country of California immediately jumps 3,000 miles to NJ.

 

[Flyer1015]

I stand corrected. So basically the bluest of blue states

CA's paid family leave (FMLA) at 55% of what you make, isn't that coming out of the SUI/SDI?