Virgin America Info?

[JoeMerchant]

Hello boys and girls. Today's word is "rationalizing". We're going to use "rationalizing" in a sentence...

The *REASON* the regionals flew bigger and bigger equipment for less and less money is *BECAUSE* people like you kept "rationalizing" the decision to take the position for less and less as the equipment got bigger and bigger.

First it was a Jetstream. Then it was a Saab. Then it was a Beech 1900. Then it was the CRJ. Then it was the E175. Now it's all the way into an Airbus.

When does it end? Where does "regional creep" end and "mainline flying" begin?

Keep "rationalizing" the decision to take these jobs and, eventually, you'll have $95 an hour 747 Captains at Northwest.

Mr. Robinson's Neighborhood lecture is now over.

The *reason* this happened was because mainline MECs "sold" the flying after deregulation because they didn't want to fly Metros, Bandits, and 1900s....that was beneath big airline pilots to fly these little airplanes......The regionals then convinced people to fly for them for peanuts because they were "stepping stone" jobs to the real job of big major airline pilot.....Then after the Camel was all the way in the tent, and the mainline jobs started shrinking, those same mainline pilots decided that it wasn't beneath them anymore to fly "little airplanes"....so they decided it was OK to take those jobs back from the regional pilots......

"It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood"......my @$$

 

[OHGOON]

The *reason* this happened was because mainline MECs "sold" the flying after deregulation because they didn't want to fly Metros, Bandits, and 1900s....that was beneath big airline pilots to fly these little airplanes......

Let's not forget who's MECs you're talking about...ALPA. Their Motto has always been, get as much as you can for the senior guys at the expense of the youngens! What a collosal blunder to not accept the RJ into the fold as the entry level jet for the majors back in the day. Another example of short term greed with long term consequences! Morons!!

 

[JoeMerchant]

Let's not forget who's MECs you're talking about...ALPA. Their Motto has always been, get as much as you can for the senior guys at the expense of the youngens! What a collosal blunder to not accept the RJ into the fold as the entry level jet for the majors back in the day. Another example of short term greed with long term consequences! Morons!!

It goes back further than that......In the early 80s the Eastern MEC was approached about outsourcing flying to the smaller towns after deregulation.....The Eastern MEC wasn't interested in flying Metros and "small" airplanes....This was the Camel's nose in the tent...

Randy Babbitt was involved back then and is on record as saying this was a mistake........

 

[Lear70]

ALPA absolutely recognizes it as a major mistake... one that has caused probably the most damage for a single error in the history of the organization.

That said, as long as people keep flying for peanuts, it'll stay the accepted norm, and "regional creep" will continue.

We have only ourselves to blame if we keep letting the bar get lowered. ALPA may have started it, but they're fighting to improve... what are YOU doing?

(not a slam at one person, it's a rhetorical question meant to get people to re-examine their personal commitment to improving the profession).

 

[JoeMerchant]

ALPA absolutely recognizes it as a major mistake... one that has caused probably the most damage for a single error in the history of the organization.

That said, as long as people keep flying for peanuts, it'll stay the accepted norm, and "regional creep" will continue.

We have only ourselves to blame if we keep letting the bar get lowered. ALPA may have started it, but they're fighting to improve... what are YOU doing?

(not a slam at one person, it's a rhetorical question meant to get people to re-examine their personal commitment to improving the profession).

I'm going to make about $112,000 flying an ATR this year..... I don't think I am the "problem".....My job is in danger from other cheaper operators......many of whom wear union pins.....including mainline pilots who now want to "take back" my flying......That isn't going to fly.....We can work "together", or we can fight for our own individual best interests.....

 

[PCL_128]

As far as going back to year 1 at upgrade, I am not a fan and won't defend it. I think it is wrong and needs to be changed.

That's great, but what are you going to do about it? Right now, you have no legal avenue to change anything. Ready for a union drive? If not, then you're part of the problem.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That's great, but what are you going to do about it? Right now, you have no legal avenue to change anything. Ready for a union drive? If not, then you're part of the problem.

Many ALPA groups have agreed to give up longevity and negotiated deals where pilots go back to year one......Indy Air did it with the Airbus and MidAtlantic/USAir did it with the MidAtlantic....

Longevity is a cost factor when you compete with other carriers......

 

[PCL_128]

Many ALPA groups have agreed to give up longevity and negotiated deals where pilots go back to year one......Indy Air did it with the Airbus and MidAtlantic/USAir did it with the MidAtlantic....

Longevity is a cost factor when you compete with other carriers......

You miss the point, John, as always. It's not about what other ALPA groups have done. They did that as a matter of negotiations. The pilots at VA do it because it's forced on them and they have no legal recourse. Abe says he doesn't like it, so what's he going to do about it? The only thing that can be done is unionization, because that's the only thing that gives you a say in your career and profession.

 

[JoeMerchant]

You miss the point, John, as always. It's not about what other ALPA groups have done. They did that as a matter of negotiations. The pilots at VA do it because it's forced on them and they have no legal recourse. Abe says he doesn't like it, so what's he going to do about it? The only thing that can be done is unionization, because that's the only thing that gives you a say in your career and profession.

No you missed the point...The point is it gives Virgin a cost advantage.....one that ALPA groups have used to undercut each other at times.....

You seem to only be mad when a non-union carrier undercuts a union carrier.....When ALPA carriers do it to each other, you rationalize it as a good thing.....