Virgin America Info?

[Green Banana]

You're Abe Froman?...The Sausage King of Chicago???

 

[Abe Froman]

You're Abe Froman?...The Sausage King of Chicago???

I am...

 

[Green Banana]

Hay Abe, PM!

 

[The Victors]

Green,

1. Yes, many. Southwest and Frontier guys are great.
2. Not yet.
3. Yes, substantial. Hiring 180+ pilots in 08. Currently about 170 on the list.

You do have a decision to make. I am not going to throw rocks at the other guys here... unproductive and not worth my time.

I am a pilot at Virgin and can tell you that it is the finest group of people I have ever worked with. It is also my 5th 121 carrier and I have chosen it over any other passenger carrier for the upside potential.

Good luck to you.

Abe

"upside potential"? Oh, you mean accepting the lowest wage in the industry so that the foreign owner can undercut the rest of the industry.

 

[El Pobre]

I'm sorry....just how is Virgin lowering the bar any lower than the regional airlines already are??? It seems that Virgin pays more and offers more than most regionals...Let's face it, there are alot of RJ's flying routes that used to be flown by major airlines, and that has severely lowered the bar in this industry. It was one thing when regionals were flying from ORD to podunk Iowa, but now they are flying major city to major city with pilots earning a small fraction of what the majors were making...that is what is undercutting the industry.

 

[Lear70]

I'm sorry....just how is Virgin lowering the bar any lower than the regional airlines already are??? It seems that Virgin pays more and offers more than most regionals...Let's face it, there are alot of RJ's flying routes that used to be flown by major airlines, and that has severely lowered the bar in this industry. It was one thing when regionals were flying from ORD to podunk Iowa, but now they are flying major city to major city with pilots earning a small fraction of what the majors were making...that is what is undercutting the industry.

Name a regional that's operating Airbus equipment.

Regional pay for a large Embraer (170/190) is bad enough. Regional pay for an Airbus or a Boeing is "undercutting the industry".

Obviously you've never done negotiations for your union and seen how a company's management will use the lowest paid company flying your equipment to pressure you into expecting the same pay in order to "save costs and keep the company viable".

THAT is why everyone gets so angry about it... it DIRECTLY affects every other pilot at every other airline that operates similar equipment.

We all rely on everyone else to keep wages in an upward trend. Every time a group caves and flies for lower than standard wages, the bar gets lowered.

It's pretty simple math.

 

[Abe Froman]

We all rely on everyone else to keep wages in an upward trend. Every time a group caves and flies for lower than standard wages, the bar gets lowered.

quote]

I missed the part where the Virgin America pilot group caved. We are on startup payscale. Can one of you who is so eager to slam our payscale give me 3 examples of airlines that started up and paid your beloved "industry standard" wages right out of the gate.

 

[Lear70]

We all rely on everyone else to keep wages in an upward trend. Every time a group caves and flies for lower than standard wages, the bar gets lowered.

I missed the part where the Virgin America pilot group caved. We are on startup payscale. Can one of you who is so eager to slam our payscale give me 3 examples of airlines that started up and paid your beloved "industry standard" wages right out of the gate.

Can you name 3 startups in the last decade that have survived more than 5 years?

Low wages don't automatically equal successful company.

Pilot wages are a small part of the cost equation, yet everyone buys into the idea that they're "making the company succesful", and accepting low wages as a result.

Virgin isn't as bad as some (Skybus), but this whole idea of starting over at year 1 scale when you upgrade is complete and pure bullsh*t and needs to stop before the rest of the industry jumps on it as a bargaining chip.

 

[~~~^~~~]

this whole idea of starting over at year 1 scale when you upgrade is complete and pure bullsh*t and needs to stop before the rest of the industry jumps on it as a bargaining chip.

You lose longevity when you upgrade ?

 

[Lear70]

You lose longevity when you upgrade ?

Yup.

Check out airlinepilotpay.com.

It's standard at many carriers in Europe and Cathay does it as well. Unfortunately, since the creators of SkyBus and Virgin are from that part of the world, they see it as standard practice where here in the U.S., it's almost unheard of.
Terrible idea... uke: