Virgin America Groupon offer- this weeks' sign the apocalypse is upon us.

[Dan Roman]

Ralph,

No games or stonethrowing when there is a disabled child involved. You are a good parent.

True statement. I've found guys like Ralph, who have been around, are often better people and better pilots than someone who has never been furloughed and only worked at one airline. You can't through stones in this industry without being a hypocryte. We are all playing with the cards we were dealt, most of them were out of our control. If any of you think you are smarter or better because of the airline you work for you are only fooling yourself.
Being a good parent, having good friends and enjoying your life away from work is way more important than the paint job on the side of your airplane.

 

[say again]

True statement. I've found guys like Ralph, who have been around, are often better people and better pilots than someone who has never been furloughed and only worked at one airline. You can't through stones in this industry without being a hypocryte. We are all playing with the cards we were dealt, most of them were out of our control. If any of you think you are smarter or better because of the airline you work for you are only fooling yourself.
Being a good parent, having good friends and enjoying your life away from work is way more important than the paint job on the side of your airplane.

Well said!! :beer:

I've been furloughed, laid-off 4 times over the past 6 years. Luck of the draw, I guess. Each company that I was hired by was considered in a "strong" position (making money, expanding, plenty of work). Well, just goes to show that things can change drastically in this industry, and very quickly. I certainly do not wish this upon anyone, no matter what may be said here. It's the nature of this wonderful industry we call aviation.

 

[pilotpm]

Yep, pretty much the responses I expected from the people I expected. What ever.

 

[waveflyer]

Yep, pretty much the responses I expected from the people I expected. What ever.

I'm sorry.
Are you lumping me into that crowd? You don't have a response for my post?

 

[pilotpm]

Here's the deal. You guys can bash us all you want for not being unionized. But, I and most of my co-workers believe a company will go union when THEY deserve it. Why would we spoil the good working relationship we have and the continuing voluntary improvements in pay and working conditions. When THEY start lying and messing with the formula, they will get what they deserve. Until that time there is no reason for a union.

Thanks Virgin America for making my point yesterday. In case you hadn't heard, We are all getting another raise on June 1.

 

[waveflyer]

Thanks Virgin America for making my point yesterday. In case you hadn't heard, We are all getting another raise on June 1.

PM-
Good. And again- if they were really good- theyd put it in writing- the time to vote in a union is not when you need one.

If you collectively bargain - there is a legal, proper way to do that. Otherwise, why can't the better pilots who are better employees negotiate a well earned higher rate than the slackers at VA?

(or did you not respond to me before bc you have no answer ?

Do you get upset with your bank when they want you to sign legally binding papers holding you to your mortgage? I mean, where's the trust and good will?)

 

[pilotpm]

PM-
Good. And again- if they were really good- theyd put it in writing- the time to vote in a union is not when you need one.

If you collectively bargain - there is a legal, proper way to do that. Otherwise, why can't the better pilots who are better employees negotiate a well earned higher rate than the slackers at VA?

(or did you not respond to me before bc you have no answer ?

Do you get upset with your bank when they want you to sign legally binding papers holding you to your mortgage? I mean, where's the trust and good will?)

Would you agree that as soon as a union is voted in, that you will be stuck with the status quo for 3-4 years while the first agreement is negotiated? Why would I want the current to be the status quo when I am currently getting pay and work rule improvements on a regular basis. I prefer to wait until those improvements are no longer occuring. Then the 3-4 year freeze will be at the higher level. Don't get me wrong I am not anti union, just not now. For reference I have a 20 year ALPA pin and was also a teamster on two deferent occations.

 

[Mach88]

The real issue isnt pilots taking jobs at low cost carriers then not voting in a union right away. Most of us were in a position that we needed a pilot job at some point in our careers and we arent talking about crossing picket lines. And its easy for a pilot that enjoys a good union contract to say they would stick their neck out and try and organize their pilot group and then actively fight for the contract. I have seen a lot of apathy at both union and nonunion carriers.

I think the real issue is that American consumers just want to pay the cheapest price, whether its a plane ticket, a car, or a shirt made in China. Maybe Im alone but I support companies that pay well even if I have to pay a bit more. And I encourage my friends and family to do the same.

How many of you Virgin bashers shop at Walmart rather than the store down the street that employs union workers that enjoy better pay and benifits? Its not just our profession thats taken a beating in pay and benifits by low cost nonunion competitors. Good luck to all of us.

 

[waveflyer]

Mach- I do- and agree with your point.

Pilotpm-
I think you are thinking that the contentious mentality is the only way to unionize.
Swapa flies in the face of that for over 3 decades.
I would say that the status quo is not limited upward by language- I see nothing in the RLA that forces a company to not give a raise that they would like to. But again that's the wrong mentality- why give a company latitude when you honestly believe they'd negotiate like that?

 

[Full of LUV]

Mach- I do- and agree with your point.

Pilotpm-
I think you are thinking that the contentious mentality is the only way to unionize.
Swapa flies in the face of that for over 3 decades.
I would say that the status quo is not limited upward by language- I see nothing in the RLA that forces a company to not give a raise that they would like to. But again that's the wrong mentality- why give a company latitude when you honestly believe they'd negotiate like that?

With all due respect for SWAPA.... they did spend the first two decades of that as a severe anchor to the profession in terms of no retirement, no retiree medical insurance and no pensions. What's new now is that through the BK process they are now seen as the panacea of pilot contracts.