Virgin America Groupon offer- this weeks' sign the apocalypse is upon us.

[BILL LUMBERG]

Bill- you're a troll

I was broke and worked my ********************ing ass off to get through flight school and college-
Keep telling yourself that I'm some rich kid who had everything handed to him- in reality- I'm the guy who's a lot smarter than you and works harder- I don't blame other people or other companies for my lot in life-

I don't have any desire to turn this into a SW thread bash- but there are huge differences between you and me and our two companies- you see- I WANT to work hard- most of my peers want to work hard- we aren't concerned with startups or legacies bc we feel like we'll kick either's butt up and down the airline market court bc we care about our company, are happy, and our company cares about us and shows it-

You guys probably vote republican bc you dont want to pay taxes- but are actually socialists- always blaming others for your own lack of success.
It's funny- here's a piece of advice old man- never wish for life to get easier- bc "easy" always resets and next thing you know the walk to the employee lot is something hard and you resent it. When you want to work hard, that's when life gets easy.

Bc guess what- we're a capitalist country- the entire system is dependent on startups- blame them all you want- SWA back in the day or VA now- if they're your excuse- you will never be out of them and always b/tching and confused why you're so Kane and out of control.

Wave.....you've never been at a good job until now (if one plane for life and 8 legs a day to 68 UNITED STATES cites with no vnav is a good job) so I guess you think SWA is the holy grail.....good for you!!

Smarter and work harder??.....Who the F are you man? Tony Robbins? I guess the blame game only goes up in your world. Boo hoo, I was an RJ guy until I bought a 737 type....blame the legacy pilots....boo hoo...I was stuck as a feeder in an RJ granted by legacy scope relief....blame the legacy pilots. Dude, I work hard, but I don't work for charity or in the almighty name of Herb and Gary. Koolaid Kleanup on aisle 7......

Trolling around with your "kickin butt" mantra is old and tired like the guy who's stuck to your left that's gonna keep you in your chair for 20+ years. Thank him for 65 also.....

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Ralph,

No games or stonethrowing when there is a disabled child involved. You are a good parent.

 

[Chairman]

You don't want to answer the questions. That's cool because there is no good way you could possibly answer them. If VA is successful in ORD, they will siphon traffic away from UAL, which means we need less UA pilots which means you are furloughed longer. Ditto for the AA guys and DFW. If you like VA better then I guess that doesn't matter to you. In that case, there is no need to worry about longevity. Also, for the record, our Council passed a resolution directing the MEC to direct the negotiating to obtain longevity benefits for our furloughed pilots a very long time ago. I am pretty sure other Councils followed.

Also, as a point of information, a successful VA puts labor at the incumbent carrier in an awkward position. Do you bring down your wages and compensation down to the new entrant's level (again) or do you just cede market share and suck up the losses? But no worries, you only have 34 aircraft.....wait.....where and when have I read that before??

If these new ultra low LCC carriers (like VA) are successful, over long periods of time, their 34 planes will turn to 50, which will turn to 75, which will turn to 250 when the copycats come which turns into another bloodbath for the legacies when hard fought gains are lost under the judge's gavel. But hey, you only have 34 airplanes so all is well......

Guess I am missing what you want.....So I should not have a flying job for a few more years(Already at 2 years on the street and I figure at least another 4). Our 10 year Bus rates are $1 hr below UAL on the CA side and $5hr on the FO side. UAL 10 years guys thats right are 2 time furloughed with a bitter taste in there mouth. Yes our work rules need to improve but it took UAL took 75 years to get contract 2000 and 3 years to loose it? Our pay will come up and I would not be surprised to see another pay bump this year. The 16% B/C fund was sure nice infact industry leading but for now 5% is better than nothing. Shares are set a side for when we IPO to be shared with the employee group and profit sharing plans and performance plans are also in place. Are we the same as a legacy carrier after 3 1/2 years in operation....Nope but we are making improvements. not sure what you want out of us....I will focus on our product you focus on yours. Tomorrow alone UAL has 1634 seats available ORD to SFO Direct with 9 flights a day. VA will enter the market with less than 500 and 1 gate. ORD is a major HUB for UAL and the people of ORD can connect to many destinations even if they have to ride on an RJ. Not sure to many will fly VA to SFO or LAX to go to IAD or JFK. Have you taken a ride on us. Trust me, if I as a Non rev can't get a second cup of coffee on a transcon flight how do you think your paying passengers feel? They sure get a hell of a product on VA. Thanks for helping me try to live my life and choose my career path but I can handle that on my own.

Infact blame us all you want. Just looked up and compared flights 3/31/11 10am departure SFO-IAD

VA $281
UAL$246

First Class

VA $1086
UAL$1037

No wonder we cant fill up our planes
Chairman

 

[Tomct]

Ralph,

No games or stonethrowing when there is a disabled child involved. You are a good parent.

Bill, the best thing you have ever said!

Now Bill, as far as outsourcing is concerned....Blame Yourselves! If you really wanted to stop it, you could have parked airplanes and hit the company where it hurt, but you didn't! UAL, DAL and CAL could have all parked planes to stop the blow up of RJ's, but guess what...THEY DIDN'T! Why...because "they" were too good to fly RJ's and so the slide began, so just look in the mirror before you blame other pilot groups. Stop throwing mud at guys/gals just trying to pay their bills. Did YOU have a rich mommy and daddy or did you have to work for your career? Most pilots are motivated and any that had to come the civilian route had to work hard to get to where they are in their flying life. Now whether it is at an "ALMIGHTY" Legacy or an LCC or Regional, it is NONE of your concern. We as pilots are our own worst enemies. If ALPA wanted to fix all of this, they should have started a National Seniority List long ago and that would have helped a ton, but too many pilots are selfish and would not have wanted that...they would want to say that their airline paid better blah....blah....blah. Just worry about what is going to happen with your carrier and we will worry about ours.

I would NEVER cross a picket line or fly struck work, I was previously ALPA and have that respect, but I, like many others have been screwed by ALPA in the past as well, so don't expect any sympathy from me on your other gripes. Here's a question, when VX pay rates are equal to JB, then what?? What will you b!tch about then? Oh, I know, we haven't be around for 75 yrs or...never mind.

I hope you have a successful career and that you are "King of the World." Good Luck!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Tomct,

Three things.....

First, When the managment came to us and said SWA (or whatever carrier) is doing it for X amount of money, the response was ok....we don't want our wages lowered, so go ahead and let somebody fly a few jets for us to compete. Right or wrong, that was the horse, not the cart that we at a legacy was saddled with. Then the RJDC and other regionals started probing for more and more flying and the airlines hid behind a judges robe to threaten and allow more to occur.

Second,

Ralph said his story....how exactly did YOU "get screwed" by Alpa....I need some perspective.

Third,

I meant every word to Ralph. I may be rough on here, but I know good people when I see them.

 

[waveflyer]

See bill- you've continually ignored that I was furloughed from a legacy long before I flew an RJ- that's when we started our business - and I took the flying job available- and decided that if I was going to keep flying- I wouldn't do it for any carrier that outsourced.
Keep trying junior- not everyone is dumb enough to stay dependent on the airline industry

 

[Tomct]

Tomct,

Three things.....

First, When the managment came to us and said SWA (or whatever carrier) is doing it for X amount of money, the response was ok....we don't want our wages lowered, so go ahead and let somebody fly a few jets for us to compete. Right or wrong, that was the horse, not the cart that we at a legacy was saddled with. Then the RJDC and other regionals started probing for more and more flying and the airlines hid behind a judges robe to threaten and allow more to occur.

Second,

Ralph said his story....how exactly did YOU "get screwed" by Alpa....I need some perspective.

Third,

I meant every word to Ralph. I may be rough on here, but I know good people when I see them.

ALPA screwed me and a big group of our pilots at our Regional when I was there to vote in a contract. But when it came time to give me my check for "back pay," due to the fact that I had taken a good job elsewhere I lost quite a bit of money. When asked "Why" those of us who were around to vote in the contract, but left for greener pastures, we were told it was no longer our money. I have a ton of friends that it screwed (some of who went on to the Legacies). That's it in a nutshell. Total Crap!
Fly Safe!

 

[Fubijaakr]

Our 10 year Bus rates are $1 hr below UAL on the CA side and $5hr on the FO side.

How many 10 year CAs are there? Oh, yeah...ZERO. And there won't be any for another 7 years.

7 years of undercutting the profession. Well done, Son.

 

[Tomct]

Actually, I believe he was using the 10yr pay because no one at UA is a Capt with less then 10yrs at the company. Just trying to give you a little perspective on that there Fubi.


Hey Fubi, here's a question:

When our rates are equal to JB's in the next yr or two, what will you complain about then?

 

[CorpCaptain]

I really have no dog in this fight, but as I continue to scroll down I can't help to think each of us are our own worst enemy. Instead of arguing about pay rates, black ********************s, $7 coupons and who screwed who first why don't each of us find common ground and support your fellow professional? Its not just upper management dictating pay and contracts.....its the pilot sitting next to you. Petty s*it arguments like the reason why we are ALL in the downward spiral of aviation. Unless we all find common ground and become unified front this bs will continue indefinatly.
Good luck to each and everyone of you-
Corp