Virgin America Groupon offer- this weeks' sign the apocalypse is upon us.

[Ralph Cramden]

Ralph

It is unfortunate you had a dotted career. Maybe I will too. Well, actually I won't because I would find something else to do if United dies. I wouldn't bother with what you went through.

However, if you have been around the block as much as you claim, then you know exactly why VA guys take the beatings they do. It is an industry that is tired of having a group of pilots fighting to make improvements while another undermines those very efforts. Your group is doing the SAME exact thing the LCC's of the mid to late 1990's were doing, but now we have the benefit of history to realize the damage that causes to the profession. You and your peers can rationalize it any way you want. As long as airlines like VA compete on the basis of "who can pay their pilots the least" instead of the other things you mention (schedules, FF programs, etc) then we as a profession are doomed to repeat what has happened this past decade. The JetBlue pilots now "get it.". The Valujet pilots (now Airtran) "get it" now. The VA pilots...well, not so much. Is it unreasonable to expect the VA guys to stop undermining the rest of us?

Trust me ualriver, if you had to start over and had the opportunity to get your seniority back at a well funded startup you would. I tried working outside of commercial aviation on my last retread, it's a lot of work for little pay! It was still better than applying to CAL at the time due to the low pay, no medical and the remainder of my career on reserve at the bottom.

Deregulation and the lack of an industry wide list and contract, added to our country's current right wing business politics will ensure the never ending repetition of new carriers. After my 20 plus years of watching ALPA politics play out I want nothing to do with it ever again.

Did you see the F9 - Republic list award? You have bigger problems on your radar screen than VX becoming a medium size niche carrier in your back yard. For the sake of your future I hope you do a Delta instead of a USAir. Knowing the militant scorched earth history of UAL labor since the 85 strike I am willing to bet against you.

 

[IAHERJ]

Trust me ualriver, if you had to start over and had the opportunity to get your seniority back at a well funded startup you would. I tried working outside of commercial aviation on my last retread, it's a lot of work for little pay! It was still better than applying to CAL at the time due to the low pay, no medical and the remainder of my career on reserve at the bottom.

Deregulation and the lack of an industry wide list and contract, added to our country's current right wing business politics will ensure the never ending repetition of new carriers. After my 20 plus years of watching ALPA politics play out I want nothing to do with it ever again.

Did you see the F9 - Republic list award? You have bigger problems on your radar screen than VX becoming a medium size niche carrier in your back yard. For the sake of your future I hope you do a Delta instead of a USAir. Knowing the militant scorched earth history of UAL labor since the 85 strike I am willing to bet against you.

Huh? 2005 hires held captain for a while before 2008 and are doing quite well flying widebodies or LNB aircraft right now at w-2's higher than A-320 captains at VA. Is there another reason why you didn't hire on to UAL or another legacy years and years ago? I mean, if you were qualified enough to pass on crossing a picket line at UAL in 1985, you were qualified to hire on in the years after when UAL hired like crazy.

 

[jonjuan]

Huh? 2005 hires held captain for a while before 2008 and are doing quite well flying widebodies or LNB aircraft right now at w-2's higher than A-320 captains at VA. Is there another reason why you didn't hire on to UAL or another legacy years and years ago? I mean, if you were qualified enough to pass on crossing a picket line at UAL in 1985, you were qualified to hire on in the years after when UAL hired like crazy.

No kidding-it's called revisionist history. Whatever makes him feel better about his abortion of a career.

 

[Bob Dylan]

So this guy walked the picket for UAL in 1985, and the best he could do is the lowest bottom feeding airline that hires obvious moron like Tomct? Whatever.

What happened between 1985 and now? Seems to me that FedEx, UPS and Southwest all ramped up pretty good airlines in the meantime. Plus many others.

I guess guys will do and say anything to justify pathetic decisions in life. I predict the guy has a DUI or something.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

Huh? 2005 hires held captain for a while before 2008 and are doing quite well flying widebodies or LNB aircraft right now at w-2's higher than A-320 captains at VA. Is there another reason why you didn't hire on to UAL or another legacy years and years ago? I mean, if you were qualified enough to pass on crossing a picket line at UAL in 1985, you were qualified to hire on in the years after when UAL hired like crazy.

I couldn't afford to feed a family on CAL new hire pay and have no medical insurance at the same time, so I never even applied. All of us Air Willie guys got a "thanks for coming in" interview at UAL in 94, very few got hired. Since UAL bought us and stripped all of our ORD slots before selling us. I guess they felt obligated. It left a very bad taste for ALPA national politics.

And jonjuan, you call it revisionist, I call it the other side of the story. I don't consider 20 years as a single digit CA an abortion of a career, even if it was in props and barbie jets to start. I haven't worked a bad trip or major holiday since the mid 80s. Can you say the same? You will win on pay but that's all.

I get what ualdriver is saying. I should quit the business so he can TRY to get back to contract 2000. I will never cross a picket line, but I do reserve the right to compete with you.

I'm very glad to not be at either CAL or UAL right now. You guys are going to burn down the house over your merger. I'm stocking up on marshmallows and sticks. Good luck to you.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

So this guy walked the picket for UAL in 1985, and the best he could do is the lowest bottom feeding airline that hires obvious moron like Tomct? Whatever.

What happened between 1985 and now? Seems to me that FedEx, UPS and Southwest all ramped up pretty good airlines in the meantime. Plus many others.

I guess guys will do and say anything to justify pathetic decisions in life. I predict the guy has a DUI or something.

That's pretty funny coming from Bob Dylan himself!

No, disabled family member. Would have lost insurance changing jobs until the law was changed in the late 90s. By then I was too old to want to start over. I don't consider a personal sacrifice to care for a disabled child pathetic, maybe you do. I hope you never get the chance to find out.

 

[waveflyer]

Bill- you're a troll

I was broke and worked my ********************ing ass off to get through flight school and college-
Keep telling yourself that I'm some rich kid who had everything handed to him- in reality- I'm the guy who's a lot smarter than you and works harder- I don't blame other people or other companies for my lot in life-

I don't have any desire to turn this into a SW thread bash- but there are huge differences between you and me and our two companies- you see- I WANT to work hard- most of my peers want to work hard- we aren't concerned with startups or legacies bc we feel like we'll kick either's butt up and down the airline market court bc we care about our company, are happy, and our company cares about us and shows it-

You guys probably vote republican bc you dont want to pay taxes- but are actually socialists- always blaming others for your own lack of success.
It's funny- here's a piece of advice old man- never wish for life to get easier- bc "easy" always resets and next thing you know the walk to the employee lot is something hard and you resent it. When you want to work hard, that's when life gets easy.

Bc guess what- we're a capitalist country- the entire system is dependent on startups- blame them all you want- SWA back in the day or VA now- if they're your excuse- you will never be out of them and always b/tching and confused why you're so Kane and out of control.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

That's nice and all but, more importantly, how are your pay and work rules?

Why?
They're kicking everyones butt........in a race to the bottom!:bomb:

 

[ualdriver]

I don't remember to many being concerned when I was making much less to start at UAL, or when I didn't get a hotel or per diem in training. So I guess the bar was set low enough for VA to start with. As for longevity, yeah I know its expensive but nothing like Scope and Retro pay but I don't read to many on the UAL forums worrying about the competitive disadvantage of those. Lets see we have 34 airplanes UNICAL has what over 700? We at VA know what needs to be improved as you do at UAL. Just because we don't air it here is not different that you touting that we add in the 16% B/C fund contribution to a salary comparison then go on the UAL forum and scream how everyone will vote no without Scope and retro and will strike if need be.

Fly Safe,

Chairman

You don't want to answer the questions. That's cool because there is no good way you could possibly answer them. If VA is successful in ORD, they will siphon traffic away from UAL, which means we need less UA pilots which means you are furloughed longer. Ditto for the AA guys and DFW. If you like VA better then I guess that doesn't matter to you. In that case, there is no need to worry about longevity. Also, for the record, our Council passed a resolution directing the MEC to direct the negotiating to obtain longevity benefits for our furloughed pilots a very long time ago. I am pretty sure other Councils followed.

Also, as a point of information, a successful VA puts labor at the incumbent carrier in an awkward position. Do you bring down your wages and compensation down to the new entrant's level (again) or do you just cede market share and suck up the losses? But no worries, you only have 34 aircraft.....wait.....where and when have I read that before??

If these new ultra low LCC carriers (like VA) are successful, over long periods of time, their 34 planes will turn to 50, which will turn to 75, which will turn to 250 when the copycats come which turns into another bloodbath for the legacies when hard fought gains are lost under the judge's gavel. But hey, you only have 34 airplanes so all is well......

 

[ualdriver]

l.

I get what ualdriver is saying. I should quit the business so he can TRY to get back to contract 2000. I will never cross a picket line, but I do reserve the right to compete with you.

I'm very glad to not be at either CAL or UAL right now. You guys are going to burn down the house over your merger. I'm stocking up on marshmallows and sticks. Good luck to you.

No, you should not quit so that we can try to get back contract 2000. And actually I really don't have a beef with you per se as I think you understand my points, although you don't agree with them. But what I do think that if you have a group of pilots who are trying to actively undermine the efforts of the rest of the industry, one (not you Ralph) shouldn't be bashing the guys that are actually trying to do something to improve the profession. Further, one shouldn't be on an Internet forum rationalizing one's decision to undermine me with phrases like, "we only have xx airplanes" or "we have a great relationship with management" or all the other cute little phrases we all read over and over.

I don't agree with your assessment about the SLI either. We all saw what happened at US Air. Once we get a contract, SLI will begin. There will be plenty of rhetoric coming from both sides during this time for membership consumption and we all know it will be going to an arbitrator anyway. Every pilot on the property will think they got screwed, and life will go on. I know you VA guys would love for that implosion to happen, but it likely won't. Hopefully you kept the receipts for your marshmallows.