Virgin America getting closer

[Oh-ryan]

Yeah it's sad to see people on this very thread pointing to those wages and saying they are good. Not even decent in my opinion. Virgin Blue DID help lower wages in Austrailia. Before Branson came in and low-balled the market FO's at Quantas made as much as captains at VB make. Pathetic...

If Virgin America ever gets off the ground I hope every Alpa pilot refuses to allow those guys to jumpseat. Untill we put our foot down the downward spiral will continue. After Virgin America there will be more if it's succesful.

All right here goes... $129,000/year for bus captain... not bad. At the risk of starting another mil vs civ topic all I have to say is that kind of money is not bad at all. Your average military bubba who serves 20 years as a pilot will be lucky to see that kind of money. In a job in which he/she is overwhelmed with non-flying duties, long deployments and flying into war zones 129 grand is about 20 grand more than an your average O-5 will make. And for what... you fly a hundred or so folks around the country a few days a week and you go home (or to a crash pad/hotel). I am not saying that the flying is easier or that military pilots are better, all I am saying is take a look at the whole package.

Yes I know we "volunteered" to serve and I am proud to have done so. I never joined the service cause I thought it was gonna be easy or that I would get rich. But if you wanna pay me 129 grand to fly a plane around the states 3 or 4 times a week and tell me I never have to worry about when the next eval cycle is for my 4 dozen sailors, or when we absolutely, no kidding have to be done with work ups so we can deploy on time, or that I need to get fitted for a bio/chem warfare mask and take my anthrax shot... well then sign me up.

Again, no complaints about my career path, and military pilots are not better than civvie pilots. Pay me an honest salary for an honest days work... and 129 grand sounds pretty fair for what's being asked in return. Sorry if I am bringing the industry down.

 

[koko nw]

. Sorry if I am bringing the industry down.

You are and you should be.

Six years ago $129,000 was a mid level FO pay at most Majors, now it's the going rate it seems for a narrow body captain.
What do you think first year pay is? The $129K is for the left seat. How much are you worth to sit in the right seat of an A320? Is $50/hr good enough $55? how about $60.

If that's all you believe your worth or able to negotiate for....Then please stay in the military get your retirement and find some other line of work.

Koko

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Yeah it's sad to see people on this very thread pointing to those wages and saying they are good. Not even decent in my opinion. Virgin Blue DID help lower wages in Austrailia. Before Branson came in and low-balled the market FO's at Quantas made as much as captains at VB make. Pathetic...

If Virgin America ever gets off the ground I hope every Alpa pilot refuses to allow those guys to jumpseat. Untill we put our foot down the downward spiral will continue. After Virgin America there will be more if it's succesful.

So 174k as a 737 Captain in Oz is bad? What are you smoking? Have you ever been there. Do you know what it costs compared to US cities?

 

[Oh-ryan]

You are and you should be.

Six years ago $129,000 was a mid level FO pay at most Majors, now it's the going rate it seems for a narrow body captain.
If that's all you believe your worth or able to negotiate for....Then please stay in the military get your retirement and find some other line of work.

Koko

Yup, six years ago. A lot of good those kinds of salaries are doing the major airlines today. I would never cross a line, nor negotiate for less than I am worth. I think compensation should be based on the knowledge level required for the job, work involved, benefits and the health of the company.

So lets see... knowledge level of the job... I have friends that are engineers that barely started out at 50K. I'd say we have about the same knowledge requirment as engineers, but we need experience too... so we should make more than them.

Level of work that is required... this job is easy if you have been properly trained and know what you are doing. I've only broken out in a sweat in the simulator (and I have had my fair share of emergencies in the air)

Benefits and health of the company are kinda related... if the company is making money by the boatload (FedEx/UPS) I think 300K is reasonable just as I think 129K is reasonable at a startup airline. However I do not think that anyone that has the training that is required of pilots and is charged with the responsibility of ensuring the safety of innocent lives should start at anything less than 70K a year no matter what you fly (or how long you have flown it) in a part 121 company. You can then work up from there.

I have decided to stay in the service and get my retirement (8 years to go... woohoo). I figure I will save money on uniforms this way as well, because I don't think it makes economic sense to ask a start up company to pay me 250 grand a year to work 80 hours a month and then expect that company to stay in business (nor do I expect the CEO's to rape the company in pay/bennies til its dead and then move on to the next company).

Thanks for your concern for my future.

 

[koko nw]

Did you ever consider the fact that pilots willing to work for a fraction of what major pilots were pulling down six years ago to be a reason why those salaries are no longer attainable?
Before anybody rips me a new one...Yes I realize that mismanagement and the inability to react to competition being the leading casual factors not wages.

You believe $70k is your limit. OK you work for virgin brown and two years down the road virgin skank comes on line and now their only paying $100k for a captain and $50k for an fo. Can you see were we are our own worst enemy? They need to charge more for the ticket...But are unable to in part because of the competitions ability to gather a labor force willing to work for...LESS. Shiney new airplanes rapid advancement and....you get the picture.

What was once a coveted profession has quickly degenerated into who can outbid who to the bottom the fastest.

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh towards you and your service, I didn't mean too, Congrats on your decision to stay in..Best of luck

Koko

 

[sabreliner]

Umm...last I checked, they were still lacking that all important OPERATING CERTIFICATE!!! So, until they get one, this whole argument is pointless.

 

[Oh-ryan]

Umm...last I checked, they were still lacking that all important OPERATING CERTIFICATE!!! So, until they get one, this whole argument is pointless.

That's a pretty good point... let me try it out with some analogies... umm I think the Mets are the best team in the playoffs right now, but until they win the world series its pointless to even argue with me.

How bout this... Foley hasn't been convicted of anything yet... all of these arguements are pointless.

 

[JimNtexas]

Pictures of two of their airplanes: http://flickr.com/photos/southerncalifornian/263034955/

 

[AA717driver]

Let me get this straight...

So, it's ok to work for $129k a year if you have 15 years in at a "Major" with no pension and $h!t work rules but you're a pariah in the industry if you go start out at a LCC and make that in a few years?

No one cares what you made as an FO a few years ago. No one stood up and drew a line in the sand when they lowered the bar at YOUR airline. Where was the big talk then? You wouldn't put YOUR career on the line to stop the slide but you start slinging $h!t and someone who wants to go to a LCC and get their foot in the door like the early JB guys.

What a bunch of hypocrites. Makes me proud to be an American... NOT! TC

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Nice one! I love it. We need to start a thread of, "Unusual and/or useful qoutes." In fact, if we do, "I'll jump up and down and shoot sparks out my ass."

Goddamnit, I'd piss on a spark plug if I knew any better. Let the boy in their major!


Classic

 

[koko nw]

So, it's ok to work for $129k a year if you have 15 years in at a "Major" with no pension and $h!t work rules but you're a pariah in the industry if you go start out at a LCC and make that in a few years?

You know very well why a 15 year "pilot" makes what he makes NOW.

No one cares what you made as an FO a few years ago. No one stood up and drew a line in the sand when they lowered the bar at YOUR airline. Where was the big talk then? You wouldn't put YOUR career on the line to stop the slide but you start slinging $h!t and someone who wants to go to a LCC and get their foot in the door like the early JB guys.

I tried, I voted no. But to be honest my main reason for voting no was because it would have meant my furlough. There you happy? What stand did you make at TWA/AA? Did you guy's walk away when you were one of least paid legacies around? What stand did YOU make? How about when YOU were on the brink of BK? I'm all ears.

What a bunch of hypocrites. Makes me proud to be an American... NOT! TC

.
You win...Have a nut at Virgin whatever, be first in line and make YOUR stand. Yes I'm a hypocrite, bitter ect you can fill in the blanks. You can have this profession, hopefully by this time next month I'll leave this "pax" carrying profession to YOU.

 

[hawkerflyer]

Goddangit, I'd piss on a spark plug if I knew any better. Let the boy in their major!
One of the all time great movie quotes...

 

[Bringupthebird]

Actually, they named it Jefferson Airplane because Jefferson kept slaves too.

 

[GCAP]

Just a little something to think about.......
Age 60 goes away in November....
Lots of UA AAA retirees with no pension and a handy A-320 type....
Think VA will have trouble finding pilots to fly for $120,000 a year????

 

[Fly4hire]

With a rumored 80K a year top pay for an A320 captain, I hope like hell the majors go for blood if that disaster ever does get off the ground. Does 80K in California buy a double wide or something???

Yeah, they'll go for blood - ours :angryfire The new bottom feeder LCC will be the contractual target. I'm betting the majors hope VA is a whopping success.

 

[Fly4hire]

Just a little something to think about.......
Age 60 goes away in November....
Lots of UA AAA retirees with no pension and a handy A-320 type....
Think VA will have trouble finding pilots to fly for $120,000 a year????

Age 60 ain't over yet by a long shot.

 

[Green]

So 174k as a 737 Captain in Oz is bad? What are you smoking? Have you ever been there. Do you know what it costs compared to US cities?

Yes I have been there and yes I do know what it costs compared to US cities. 174k (Aus$) is not an aweful salary. But it is significantly LESS than what airline pilots were making in Oz before Virgin Blue came around. They are dragging down the payscales in oz. I hope it's not the case in the Us but I am worried that Virgin America will do the same up here. Sadly pilots these days just don't seem to think we are worth very much. Oh well.

 

[Green]

Did you ever consider the fact that pilots willing to work for a fraction of what major pilots were pulling down six years ago to be a reason why those salaries are no longer attainable?
Before anybody rips me a new one...Yes I realize that mismanagement and the inability to react to competition being the leading casual factors not wages.

You believe $70k is your limit. OK you work for virgin brown and two years down the road virgin skank comes on line and now their only paying $100k for a captain and $50k for an fo. Can you see were we are our own worst enemy? They need to charge more for the ticket...But are unable to in part because of the competitions ability to gather a labor force willing to work for...LESS. Shiney new airplanes rapid advancement and....you get the picture.

What was once a coveted profession has quickly degenerated into who can outbid who to the bottom the fastest.

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh towards you and your service, I didn't mean too, Congrats on your decision to stay in..Best of luck

Koko

right on...

 

[jehtplane]

Wow, real impressive top out pay. $129,000.00 for CA's and $74,000.00 for FO's. Pathetic. Sad to see the race to 7-11 wages continues "down under" too.

What is Continental's starting pay again? Where did you get those numbers?

 

[psycho]

Looking at Virgin America Objectively :

Foreign ownership means nothing to any pilot not currently working for a major or lcc. Pilots employed by foreign owners will need to be certificated in the usa. Most ALPA airlines in the USA employ more foreign pilots than Branson could ever dream of hiring.

The real concern from ALPA is competition at any level. The ownership issue is a smokescreen to distract you from the reality that ALL ALPA pilots at ALL ALPA MAINLINE CARRIERS have done more to destroy this profession than one thousand immigrant pilots could ever hope to do. All brains and no balls.

VA would pay you more than any ALPA carrier in the long run

 

[coogebeachhotel]

Yes I have been there and yes I do know what it costs compared to US cities. 174k (Aus$) is not an aweful salary. But it is significantly LESS than what airline pilots were making in Oz before Virgin Blue came around. They are dragging down the payscales in oz. I hope it's not the case in the Us but I am worried that Virgin America will do the same up here. Sadly pilots these days just don't seem to think we are worth very much. Oh well.

A 76 Captain at Quantas makes 170k. So a 737 driver who makes the same at VB brought them down???????????

 

[Dumb Pilot]

But it is significantly LESS than what airline pilots were making in Oz before Virgin Blue came around. They are dragging down the payscales in oz. I hope it's not the case in the Us but I am worried that Virgin America will do the same up here. Sadly pilots these days just don't seem to think we are worth very much. Oh well.

I think you should include all ALPA carriers in that phrase my dear sir. We have done quite a bit bringing this career down on our own without any foreign help

 

[Captzaahlie]

Please turn your nose up at VA I''LL drive one....

 

[Quack]

Nice Dash Capt...