V2 to MSA or Accelerate to VFS????

[LegacyDriver]

Once again this argument rears its ugly head. Falcon has their way. Boeing has theirs. Cessna another. 121 Airline says do this but same equipment in 135 charter says do that.

So....

What's the rule folks? What is going to keep you from hitting that cumulus granite? After a V1 Engine Failure..........

V2 to MSA then accelerate?

V2 to 500'/1000'/1500'/APG Accel Height then accelerate and clean up to VFS - Final Segment (EMBRAER) / VNER (Cessna) / fill-in-the-blank (Boeing, Falcon, etc.)?

I swear Part 25 and TERPS do not talk to one another and every time I go to recurrent I find some new reason to question whatever method I'm using that six months...

 

[NCherches]

Fly it how the sim instructor wants you to :beer:

 

[ProFracPilot]

Standard Legacy Engine Failure at V1 Profile, non-APG:

V1 - Engine Failure

Vr - Rotate

V2 to Acceleration height (400-1500' AGL, unless otherwise standardized for your ops)

At Acceleration height

Call "ALT Hold"

V2+15 call "Flaps Up"

At Vfs call "SPD Hold Vfs"

Climb to initial altitude at Vfs

Avoid obstacles visually. If unable to maintain visual conditions, incorporate APG. Procedures will vary from DP to DP and must be individually briefed.

 

[rice]

Really depends upon the DP and your aircraft's performance limitations.
CAVU companies used to have an excellent tutorial on their website which may be of interest.

 

[fisherpilot]

I do V2 to 1000 agl unless there are obstacles above that, then its V2 until clear of all obstacles.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I used the above EMB profile for years in the ERJ and Legacy. Then our sop changed to V2 until MSA.I seem to recall in recurrent seeing the numbers run for Dassault... Not cleaning up and accelerating made you hit the obstacle if it was a very tall one (net climb gradient at V2 was less than cleanup and fly final segment).So Cessna has numbers for V2 to 1500' but I'm led to believe I should cleanup after that. Instructor says hold V2. Yes I will do it his way for the ride but I want to know if that's truly the safest bet considering I'm a Cessna noob.

 

[ProFracPilot]

Maybe I'm misreading what y'all are suggesting here...

But taking a wag like "In the event of an engine failure at V1, I think I'll climb at V2 to X altitude today" is misguided. You really have to work the data. The sooner you can get the airplane cleaned up and accelerate to Vfs (or Venr), the better net climb gradient you will have. If you can't find an acceleration segment that allows you to briefly level, clean up then climb then the obstacles you're trying to avoid are either a) too high / close in; b) it's too hot; or c) you're too heavy. In these situations you really need to have other analysis data such as APG or similar.

 

[LegacyDriver]

I agree w you. But the perf data says, "1500 or clear of obstacles."I read that as a close-in obstacle not a mountain several miles away.Venr would give a better climb gradient than V2 I would think.

 

[bbwest]

If VMC or under radar contact, 1500 and accelerate. IMC / Night no controller to keep me out of terrain - MSA

V2 is best angle i.e. terrain consids - most altitude per mile down range
getting clean and accelerating gets you closer to a best rate airspeed - most altitude per minute

 

[ksu_aviator]

The only correct answer is the one written in the performance charts. Use that.

Remember V2 is a safety speed, not a best climb speed. Best climb speeds are Vx (angle) and Vy (rate). No doubt some aircraft have V2 and Vx very near or identical.