v2 to 1500 agl??

[getonit]

I am currently IOE'ing with a guy who recently got typed in a Citation 500 series. One of the things he is doing that is mystifying and kind of unnerving is he pitches to V2 (approx 108-115, depending on model) to 1500 AGL or he tries to, before I correct him. We are at 20 degrees and more nose up and still 30 knots over V2. All I can see is blue sky and the paperwork falling to the back of the airplane. I have no problem with that on a V1 cut but both engines are running. I asked him why and he said that is the way they did it at ASA. He was flying an RJ. My question is, Are you really taught to fly V2 to 1500 on a normal departure?

 

[79%N1]

NO. Not even close. V2+15 to 1000 ft. Most of the time, that never happens, except on checkrides with a certain Fed.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Our noise abatement departure is V2 to 1500 feet. Anything under 250K pounds and it is 18 degrees max pitch up and climbing like a skinned dog, and nowhere near V2.

 

["GO AROUND"]

Did you question why they are no longer at ASA?

 

[BenderGonzales]

Have him try that in a Learjet. He'll be in low-earth orbit by the time he catches up with the airplane.

 

[kevdog]

Standard ICAO Noise Abatement procedures would be V2 or V2 +10 to 1500, then climb thrust, then speed increase and flap retract schedule after 3000. Of course if you are at V2 +20 you remain there and do not go back to V2 unless you lose an engine. If a fed is on board flying at V2 during your 2nd segment is a little silly since he could bust you if you lose a knot or 2 below V2. Pitch should also never exceed 20 degrees.

If you are climbing like a bat out of hell, consider a reduced takeoff, it will save the life of the engines and keep the px in the back happier.

 

[TigerDriver]

we use V2 + 30 until 4000 AGL, then set climb power in our 35's, feels like a rocket ship the first time or two.

 

[anon]

ASA is V2+15 to 1000' AGL (or acceleration altitude as listed in the APG data). Not a big deal in the CRJ series aircraft.

I haven't seen that particular fed lately (Mike Costa). Is he still around?

 

[blzr]

Just line up with the flight diretor and take what it will give you. V2 is a single engine speed. In our jet, the profile calls for flaps up @400' with a speed of >140kts. If we are holding V2 with both engines at 99%, it would be rather uncomfortable for the pax.

 

[DoinTime]

Pinnacle profile for the CRJ is V2+10-15 until acceleration altitude (1000 feet AGL or as otherwise specified for terrain clearance).

 

[8HourPilot]

Tried V2 to 1500 at my previous job (560 Ultra)......just for fun and we were empty. Pitch was somewhere between 20 and 30 degrees......good times

 

[nickfaith]

Most of our profiles are ~V2+15 until acceleration height (normally 500AGL), which is when we retract flaps and accelerate to our normal climb speed (200 or 250 kts depending on airspace, etc.)

 

[Lear70]

Just line up with the flight diretor and take what it will give you. V2 is a single engine speed. In our jet, the profile calls for flaps up @400' with a speed of >140kts. If we are holding V2 with both engines at 99%, it would be rather uncomfortable for the pax.

Wrong answer. Thank you for playing, you just failed your line check. Back to the right seat for you.

Most airlines run V2+10-20, all the way from gear up to acceleration altitude (which changes between aircraft and higher-than-standard terrain cleanup altitudes).

Secondly, normal takeoff thrust is almost never 99%.

Lastly, when's the last time you took off in the back of a DC-9? Those boys put you back in your seat every time. Jumpseating you'll see them do the same thing, pitch for the flight director as soon as they clear ground effect then adjust their pitch to maintain speed which their V2+10 speed is actually bugged on the ASI.

Every airline is slightly different, but pitching for the command bars with no respect to speed in the CRJ (not selecting speed mode but leaving it in TO/TO) this time of year when the aircraft is near-empty will make you bust 200 kts before you clear the airport boundary. These engines were built for low-altitude, high-speed maneuvering and they work very well down low.

Getonit, to answer your question, I've been through 3 different schools (Flight Safety, Simuflight, and Pan Am in Miami) for Lear training, and not a single one has ever said to pich for V2 to acceleration altitude and their training is standardized for all jets they teach. V2+10 to V2+20 in 2nd segment climb for pretty much every business jet out there I know of.

 

[XJETDriver]

What up Nick... Did you ever get your money back that we paid to ride on our own plane to Mem.

 

[blzr]

Wrong answer. Thank you for playing, you just failed your line check. Back to the right seat for you.

Most airlines run V2+10-20, all the way from gear up to acceleration altitude (which changes between aircraft and higher-than-standard terrain cleanup altitudes).

Secondly, normal takeoff thrust is almost never 99%.

Lastly, when's the last time you took off in the back of a DC-9? Those boys put you back in your seat every time. Jumpseating you'll see them do the same thing, pitch for the flight director as soon as they clear ground effect then adjust their pitch to maintain speed which their V2+10 speed is actually bugged on the ASI.

Every airline is slightly different, but pitching for the command bars with no respect to speed in the CRJ (not selecting speed mode but leaving it in TO/TO) this time of year when the aircraft is near-empty will make you bust 200 kts before you clear the airport boundary. These engines were built for low-altitude, high-speed maneuvering and they work very well down low.

Getonit, to answer your question, I've been through 3 different schools (Flight Safety, Simuflight, and Pan Am in Miami) for Lear training, and not a single one has ever said to pich for V2 to acceleration altitude and their training is standardized for all jets they teach. V2+10 to V2+20 in 2nd segment climb for pretty much every business jet out there I know of.

If you are correct, then we can't put our flaps up at 400ft which is what the checklist calls for...> 140kts indicated. Our t/o chart calls for 99% (1000 ft field elevation) unless we get above 25c. Pitch for the V-bars and everything seems to fall into place. We keep it safe and comfortble for the pax. Never busted a line check or any other checkride, for that matter. However, your point is well taken.

Fly safe.

 

[PA31Ho]

we do V2 until 1000' agl then we level to "V flap retract" then "V climb 1"

 

[Lear70]

If you are correct, then we can't put our flaps up at 400ft which is what the checklist calls for...> 140kts indicated. Our t/o chart calls for 99% (1000 ft field elevation) unless we get above 25c. Pitch for the V-bars and everything seems to fall into place. We keep it safe and comfortble for the pax. Never busted a line check or any other checkride, for that matter. However, your point is well taken.

Fly safe.

What aircraft are you in and at what company? Are you referring to N2 speed or N1?

Our N1 speed is almost always something around 86-90% if using reduced thrust / flex takeoff numbers, 92-96% if going max thrust.

Most of the companies operating the CRJ that I've jumpseated on (3 besides ours) use 200 feet speed mode, 400 feet heading mode, 600 feet autopilot on (most people hand-fly for a while), at 1,000 feet AGL (if no obstacles), select 200 knots, and as the aircraft accelerates through V2+12 (flaps 8) or v2+20 (flaps 20), flaps up.

Selecting climb thrust happens differently for most of them or no one's standard, I don't know what their books actually say but 2nd segment seems to be pretty standardized, never seen 400 feet acceleration for any jet I've flown, but I'm sure there's someone else out there who does.

 

[bayoubandit]

Pos rate- gear up, speed mode, heading mode, bug Vfto

That's ours

Ultra flat take-off. Good times!