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USAPA's _hit list

Bringupthebird

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I understand that USAPA has delivered a DOH list to Parker. They claimed that the Nic list would never see the light of day. I think the west pilots will be able to thank Parker's procrastination at the negotiating table for this list being the quintessential non-starter. USAPA has taken 6 months to deliver a dead-end document. 12 months from now, when the next representation election could be held, how will they defend themselves from an angry mob of former supporters who pinned their hopes on USAPA? All that dues money for what? A newspaper ad, and permanently scorching the earth with 1800 fellow pilots?

The time will soon be ripe for USAPA's replacement. Not a moment too soon.
 

Bringupthebird

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USAPA's *hit list

I understand that USAPA has delivered a DOH list to Parker. They claimed that the Nic list would never see the light of day. I think the west pilots will be able to thank Parker's procrastination at the negotiating table for this list being the quintessential non-starter. USAPA has taken 6 months to deliver a dead-end document. 12 months from now, when the next representation election could be held, how will they defend themselves from an angry mob of former supporters who pinned their hopes on USAPA? All that dues money for what? A newspaper ad, and permanently scorching the earth with 1800 fellow pilots?

The time will soon be ripe for USAPA's replacement. Not a moment too soon.

Modifying the thread title to eliminate any confusion
 

Turtle21

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Yeah.. all the old dogs are longing for the yonder days when we were force fed Alpo.. when the "big dogs" of Alpo ate prime rib and hiked their leg as they walked by. Maybe we could all get chew toys to tide us over until we get to return to our loving masters.
 

Bringupthebird

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You mean when ALPA got you the best pay rates for equipment? Or when ALPA set the gold standard for safety advocacy and accident investigation? Wasn't Beebe an ALPA "big dog"?

It's pretty hard to paint yourself the victim when the US pilots enjoyed far more Prime Rib than any AWA pilots, or many other airlines who carried water for the Big 5.

Perhaps there is an alternative to ALPA or USAPA which doesn't disenfranchise 40% of the group. Given the freakshow that has been on stage for 6 months now, it shouldn't be hard to find something better than USAPA.
 

WSurf

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You mean when ALPA got you the best pay rates for equipment? Or when ALPA set the gold standard for safety advocacy and accident investigation? Wasn't Beebe an ALPA "big dog"?

Wasn't Beebe the same ALPA guy that lied to both PSA/PDT/ALG during Concessionary Talks?

Opps, Forgot. Its was okay to lie. They were just Regional Pee ons.
 

njcapt

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Wasn't Beebe the same ALPA guy that lied to both PSA/PDT/ALG during Concessionary Talks?

Opps, Forgot. Its was okay to lie. They were just Regional Pee ons.

That would be the guy. Admitted, in a deposition for another case, that he lied to the WO pilot groups to get them to sign the Jets for Jobs abortion. DFR case now that Chris was evicted from the ivory tower?
 

hockeypilot44

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Was Captain Beebe the pilot who had to get supplementary income from ALPA because when he returned to the line as First Officer Bebee he could not live on the pay rates ALPA negotiated?
 

Bringupthebird

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And where are the improvements to those rates from USAPA? Oh, that's right the US pilots only had a beef with ALPA over DOH not being their sole merger policy. They're OK with poverty wages, in fact they'll likely gut even those to insure the DOH list is accepted.
 

Bringupthebird

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Wasn't Beebe the same ALPA guy that lied to both PSA/PDT/ALG during Concessionary Talks?

Opps, Forgot. Its was okay to lie. They were just Regional Pee ons.

Perhaps you'd prefer a union that just made up the rules as they went along to suit their manifest destiny.
 

Turtle21

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You mean when ALPA got you the best pay rates for equipment?

ALPO didn't get those rates. Those rates (Parity +1%) were offered by Wolf as part of a concessionary contract. The givebacks of Duty Rigs, vacation, medical, etc. that were part of that contract ensured everyone worked nearly four more days every month.

As for Beebe he a fine example of everything good about ALPA... if your aren't in the peeon section.
 

Bringupthebird

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Well any fears of USAPA pulling off it's quest to shaft the west were laid to rest after reading their highlights.

The company will never go for a 10 year integration (although it may take that long to get a contract, without which there is no combined list). Parker has Nic and every right to use it. Without negotiating a new TA I don't see how they can accept USAPA's list anyhow.

Does Bradford even remotely recognize reality? He can negotiate a contract with Nic and then in the next contract decide how he wants to re-order the list. Someone should try and explain this to him.

Who ever thought dodging shots form the loose cannons would be so easy!
 
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PCL_128

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Beebe never lied to anyone. Withholding information that is prohibited from disclosure by a confidentiality agreement is not lying.
 

Bringupthebird

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Merger Committee Update
October 3, 2008

As many of you know by now, on Tuesday of this past week, the Merger Committee presented Management with the US Airways Date of Hire Pilot system seniority list (available in the Library Section of the USAPA web site), along with a comprehensive set of Conditions and Restrictions. USAPA is committed to Date of Hire principles, derived from fundamental union principles which have been embraced by all of the other labor groups on this property as well as being embraced recently by the Pilots of United Airlines’ via resolution. Fundamental union principals also dictate a Date of Hire airline that recognizes the service of all of our Pilots in a fair and equitable fashion.

Creating Conditions and Restrictions (C and Rs) that will ensure a fair and equitable method to blend our two disparate Pilot groups has been no small task. The Merger Committee knows all too well that the seniority issues have been difficult, divisive and contentious for all our Pilots. We also understand that without adequate Conditions and Restrictions, problems would merely shift from one portion of the Pilot group to another. With this in mind we have worked extremely hard to create a set of Conditions and Restrictions that will protect the pre-merger career expectations of the former America West Pilots while at the same time moving our Pilot group forward with a Date of Hire seniority system.

The Conditions and Restrictions are detailed below. There will undoubtedly be questions as to the application of the C and Rs. Within the next couple of days we will have posted on the Merger Committee page, located on the USAPA web site at www.usairlinepilots.org, many of the most common Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs). If your question(s) are not answered there, please submit your question to merger@usairlinepilots.org and we will respond as soon as practical.


DATE OF HIRE CONDITIONS AND RESTRICTIONS

US Airways Seniority Integration

Goals


1. Fair and equitable

2. Recognition that DOH seniority is a cornerstone in the foundation of our union

3. Although we are committed to a DOH airline, we intend to provide protection to West Pilots

List Construction

The US Airways Integrated Pilot System Seniority List was created from the 1 Jan 2007 certified lists from the two pre-merger airlines. All Pilots hired subsequently have been added in DOH order. Pilots who have resigned, retired, etc., remain on the list as placeholders only. Those names will be removed upon the publication of the next system seniority list in January. There has been no reordering of previous lists. It is our intent that the integrated list with its associated Conditions and Restrictions shall become effective upon contract signing.

West Provisions

We have designated the positions that existed in LAS and PHX as of 1 Jun 2008, prior to the recent system reductions, as West protected positions. These protected positions are preserved for West Pilot bidding and displaced West Pilots have recapture rights back to LAS or PHX throughout the term of the Conditions and Restrictions with few exceptions. West protected positions are eliminated if voluntarily vacated. If the number of Pilot positions in LAS and PHX increases above the initial protected positions count, any additional new Captain vacancies in LAS and PHX shall be available to East and West Pilots on a 1 for 1 basis. Additionally, West attrition is reserved for West Pilots.

System-wide DOH bidding is available to West Pilots at any time following the contract signing date.

West Pilots shall be entitled to one-third of the Captain and one-third of the First Officer positions on the first 25 EMB190 aircraft delivered, on a vacancy basis only.

In the event that EMB190 flying replaces current flying in LAS or PHX, EMB190 positions in LAS or PHX will be available to be included in the protected positions.

East Provisions

East attrition has been preserved for East Pilots.

East Pilots may bid positions in LAS and PHX as West Pilots bid east, and as LAS and PHX flying expands above the 1 June 2008 levels. The addition of a different category of aircraft would be open to a system-wide bid.

Reduction of Flying

Reductions of Captain positions system-wide are shared East and West on a ratio basis. The ratios are established upon contract signing and are aircraft and pay group specific; the ratios will be based on the actual staffing levels that exist at that time. For example, if at contract signing the B-737 ratio is 10 East Captains for every 6 West Captains, then any B-737 Captain position reductions would be allocated using that ratio. The ratios will be readjusted 12 months following contract signing to account for staffing realignment due to work rule changes.

Catastrophic Reduction Clause

In the event of a catastrophic reduction in force of 25% or more of the Pilot position count which existed on 1 June 2008, the integrated system seniority list shall govern in all seniority-related matters.

Duration

The Duration of the Conditions and Restrictions shall be 10 years.

It is important to note that our seniority list as well as these Conditions and Restrictions represent USAPA’s proposal to US Airways management. Until we have a signed contract we do not know what the final form will be.

Thank you to all of our Pilots for the support you have provided.

In Solidarity, your USAPA Merger Committee



Randy Mowrey

Mike Turpen

Bob Davison

Somebody let me know when you get to the part where west pilots can bid east when flying in east bases rises above the 6/1/08 level.

Sounds like a plan out of Selma Alabama in the early 60's to me. I thought we had gotten beyond that sort of treatment of fellow human beings.
 

Deadalus

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Does this really surprise anyone? We already knew they were a bunch of scumbags. Absolutely no comprehension of right and wrong. It's obvious that their daddy's never took them out behind the toolshed. It's a real pain to have to do it now.
 

OPECJet

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Beebe never lied to anyone. Withholding information that is prohibited from disclosure by a confidentiality agreement is not lying.

I consider it lying. Privileged information my ass. You apparently didn't see the transcripts of him admitting to lying to the PDT, PSA, and ALG MECs in 2001 / 2002. He knew that the RJs were going to PSA, and PDT / ALG were taking concessions for frames that would never be ordered. Doesn't take much digging through ALPA court documents to find them

That being said I'd still rather see him in Herndon with ALPA still representing than USAPA doing whatever they're doing.

So what's Beebe doing now? Paying USAPA dues?
 

ALGFLYR

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Somebody let me know when you get to the part where west pilots can bid east when flying in east bases rises above the 6/1/08 level.

Are you serious? you can't find that? Well they put it in plain sight, guess you missed it. Anyway, under "West provisions", second paragraph, it says:

"System-wide DOH bidding is available to West Pilots at any time following the contract signing date."

It has nothing to do with 6/1/08 staffing levels.
 

millhouse21

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Catastrophic Reduction Clause

In the event of a catastrophic reduction in force of 25% or more of the Pilot position count which existed on 1 June 2008, the integrated system seniority list shall govern in all seniority-related matters.

Does this mean what I think it means?
 

reepicheep

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Does this mean what I think it means?

It means that when US Airways, again, guts the west and shrinks back to a 3000-pilot northeast regional airline there will be only a handful of Cactus pilots left on the property. It'll be usair again, circa 2004.
 
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