Usapa lost!

[B-atch]

Lots of angry East pilots just found out there is no Santa and no LOA 93 snapbacks, not even a little 3% tease! I love the name calling, classy and childish all in one sentence!!!!

About as classy as the West rejoicing over the loa93 loss. What to expect from a bunch of under achievers.

 

[Ocity]

The Eastholes are simply reaping what they have sown.

 

[FDJ2]

About as classy as the West rejoicing over the loa93 loss. What to expect from a bunch of under achievers.

If they are under achievers, but get paid more than the east pilots, what does that make the east pilots?

 

[B-atch]

If they are under achievers, but get paid more than the east pilots, what does that make the east pilots?

Seniority is NOT for sale!! Fighting for ours is rightious and justified. The East wants nothing more than a fair integration. The NIC is far from fair. Let the West enjoy its industry leading contract. They make it sound as if they have one.

 

[doh]

Seniority is NOT for sale!! Fighting for ours is rightious and justified. The East wants nothing more than a fair integration. The NIC is far from fair. Let the West enjoy its industry leading contract. They make it sound as if they have one.

It may be "rightious", but it is far from righteous! And the only justification is a collective temper tantrum from the eastholes, which is no justification at all.

 

[B-atch]

It may be "rightious", but it is far from righteous! And the only justification is a collective temper tantrum from the eastholes, which is no justification at all.

As usual, alot of words and no content. So what about that industry leading contract that you claim to enjoy?

 

[FDJ2]

Seniority is NOT for sale!! Fighting for ours is rightious and justified. The East wants nothing more than a fair integration. The NIC is far from fair. Let the West enjoy its industry leading contract. They make it sound as if they have one.

Your fight is neither righteous or justified, it is contemptible due to your failure to honor the seniority rights of your fellow pilots. There is only one true pilot seniority list at LCC, man up and honor it.

 

[B-atch]

Your fight is neither righteous or justified, it is contemptible due to your failure to honor the seniority rights of your fellow pilots. There is only one true pilot seniority list at LCC, man up and honor it.

Seniority RIGHTS at the expense of others is hardly "righteous" nor acceptable to any union including Alpa.

 

[FDJ2]

Seniority RIGHTS at the expense of others is hardly "righteous" nor acceptable to any union including Alpa.

Their seniority rights are the result of the due process both pilot groups agreed to, end of story.

 

[waveflyer]

Batch- everyone gets that the east believes they are right- but taking the emotion out of it, it's just not logical to keep going like this and w/ AA in bk, and wages lower than every other carrier, this stand is really hurting the profession-
I get you guys have an us against the world mentality, but all of you would have been better off in every way to move on from this- I don't see how you don't see that-
Age, doh, financial situations of both carriers were considered- now youre doing what you feel like you have to-
I get it- as was pointed out, there were swa guys talking the same thing w/AT-
And I get not wanting to fall on your sword for the good of the profession
I'm just curious how long you think this ought to go on? I know you guys do not lack the heart for a battle and that's what you feel you're in-

But here's the difference- I do this career about 20% bc I like flying- I get satisfaction and pride from it- 80%- I do for money

How long will you go under loa 93, bc of pride? I do understand pride and wanting to keep the place you feel you've earned- But since this is just a job, I guess I don't see how it goes quite this far- honestly- help me understand-

How much longer?
What's the end?

 

[Hpilot]

Seniority is NOT for sale!! Fighting for ours is rightious and justified. The East wants nothing more than a fair integration. The NIC is far from fair. Let the West enjoy its industry leading contract. They make it sound as if they have one.

So says the jihadist. DOH is greattttt!!!!!! AAAAeeeeeeeeeee!

 

[Fubijaakr]

As usual, alot of words and no content. So what about that industry leading contract that you claim to enjoy?

What about the industry LAGGING contract you've chained yourself to because you refuse to accept the BINDING arbitration you AGREED to?

 

[B-atch]

Wave wrote:

"And I get not wanting to fall on your sword for the good of the profession
I'm just curious how long you think this ought to go on? I know you guys do not lack the heart for a battle and that's what you feel you're in-

But here's the difference- I do this career about 20% bc I like flying- I get satisfaction and pride from it- 80%- I do for money

How long will you go under loa 93, bc of pride? I do understand pride and wanting to keep the place you feel you've earned- But since this is just a job, I guess I don't see how it goes quite this far- honestly- help me understand-"

How much longer?
What's the end?



I've got 16 years left. Beyond that, who knows.. The AA pilots will do just fine. If "bringing the bar down" by one pilot group truly haunts YOU, how about supporting an industry common seniority list and an industry common pay scale to nullify the current trend?
Yeah, I know, I'm not WORTHY of being considered a "Real Pilot" nor do I deserve placement on such a glorious list. Reserved for successful airline pilots.

 

[Taco Rocket]

Yeah, I know, I'm not WORTHY of being considered a "Real Pilot" nor do I deserve placement on such a glorious list. Reserved for successful airline pilots.

Too funny -- but true. This is how they think.

Ironic how those talking about bringing up the bar work for companies that were so successful for decades in bringing the whole industry down.

 

[B-atch]

Too funny -- but true. This is how they think.

Ironic how those talking about bringing up the bar work for companies that were so successful for decades in bringing the whole industry down.

...And the PILOTS hold all the blame..

 

[Taco Rocket]

How much longer?
What's the end?

Probably about 5 more years.

After the next verdict, the appeal, the unending contract negotiation, the pilot ratification process, its rejection, starting over, trying again, etc. at least 5 more years.

When a new contract is there, it will be a marginal increase for the west as most of the pot of new money will have to go to the east just to bring them up to what the west has today. West guys -- when viewed this way it might have been better for you for the east to have won LOA93.

 

[B-atch]

Probably about 5 more years.

After the next verdict, the appeal, the unending contract negotiation, the pilot ratification process, its rejection, starting over, trying again, etc. at least 5 more years.

When a new contract is there, it will be a marginal increase for the west as most of the pot of new money will have to go to the east just to bring them up to what the west has today. West guys -- when viewed this way it might have been better for you for the east to have won LOA93.

Forgot ONE important point. The pulldown and subsequent shutdown of PHX, and the west pilots relocation to PHL, CLT, or DCA.

 

[B-atch]

Those that wish the NIC implemented ,at all cost ,might be surprised with its unintended consequences. PHX will be thinned-out, possibly shut down. Remember LAS? Those west pilots that enjoy the desert, will forever commute. Those that chose to move will enjoy peace and harmony while charring a loooong 4 day trip with an F/O who's 25 year seniority places him/her behind a 2005 hire. Be careful what YOU wish for......

 

[waveflyer]

B-atch-
I have supported both concepts- we'd all benefit from some tweak to the system that would allow for lateral moves as other professionals enjoy-
At the very least blend FO pay in the first 5 years so that pilots can responsibly leave a failing management

 

[Ocity]

Those that wish the NIC implemented ,at all cost ,might be surprised with its unintended consequences. PHX will be thinned-out, possibly shut down. Remember LAS? Those west pilots that enjoy the desert, will forever commute. Those that chose to move will enjoy peace and harmony while charring a loooong 4 day trip with an F/O who's 25 year seniority places him/her behind a 2005 hire. Be careful what YOU wish for......

Big Deal. I'd just tell gramps to STFU or get off my Airplane. Problem solved.

 

[B-atch]

Big Deal. I'd just tell gramps to STFU or get off my Airplane. Problem solved.

The defense rests, your honor.....

 

[cactusboy53]

Those that wish the NIC implemented ,at all cost ,might be surprised with its unintended consequences. PHX will be thinned-out, possibly shut down. Remember LAS? Those west pilots that enjoy the desert, will forever commute. Those that chose to move will enjoy peace and harmony while charring a loooong 4 day trip with an F/O who's 25 year seniority places him/her behind a 2005 hire. Be careful what YOU wish for......

Sorry B, the the freight train is coming down the tracks. Stand in front of it, stand aside, or jump on board...you pick. The majority of our pilot group has had enough of the junior east pilots trying to steer this rudderless ship. Change is coming very soon, and with it a dramatic change in the makeup of the committees. Following that will be re-address of the previous (nearly completed) contract that the AAA MEC walked away from.

The beauty of a ratified contract is it only takes 50% + 1. And when you ask your fellow driver....he/she will state...."Oh, I voted NO!". See you in the voting booth. Have a great day.

LURKERS: If you are not a Member in Good Standing, do so right now so that you can vote on a contract proposal. Vocalize, Vote and get involved. Also, volunteer for committee work...we need any help that you can offer.

CB

 

[B-atch]

Sorry B, the the freight train is coming down the tracks. Stand in front of it, stand aside, or jump on board...you pick. The majority of our pilot group has had enough of the junior east pilots trying to steer this rudderless ship. Change is coming very soon, and with it a dramatic change in the makeup of the committees. Following that will be re-address of the previous (nearly completed) contract that the AAA MEC walked away from.

The beauty of a ratified contract is it only takes 50% + 1. And when you ask your fellow driver....he/she will state...."Oh, I voted NO!". See you in the voting booth. Have a great day.

LURKERS: If you are not a Member in Good Standing, do so right now so that you can vote on a contract proposal. Vocalize, Vote and get involved. Also, volunteer for committee work...we need any help that you can offer.

CB

I hate to brake the news to ya, but losing loa93 has galvanized the East more than ever. You boyz at west might see this as a victory to your cause, the reality is much different. Keep wishing on that star.

 

[cactusboy53]

I hate to brake the news to ya, but losing loa93 has galvanized the East more than ever. You boyz at west might see this as a victory to your cause, the reality is much different. Keep wishing on that star.

Yea, yea. All 18+ of you. No wish, just the reality train coming down the tracks. See you in the voting booth, I'll be the guy with the "Save Dave" button on....!

 

[Ocity]

I hate to brake the news to ya, but losing loa93 has galvanized the East more than ever. You boyz at west might see this as a victory to your cause, the reality is much different. Keep wishing on that star.

You were out of your mind if you thought that grievance had a snow balls chance in hell.

 

[B-atch]

Yea, yea. All 18+ of you. No wish, just the reality train coming down the tracks. See you in the voting booth, I'll be the guy with the "Save Dave" button on....!

Here's my vote:

Joint contract with the NIC unmodified.

NO!

 

[xrated]

I hate to brake the news to ya, but losing loa93 has galvanized the East more than ever.

Ya, and you tell by all the recent East union updates...One big happy family standing arm and arm!! HAHAHAHAH!!! Whata joke!!

 

[cactusboy53]

Here's my vote:

Joint contract with the NIC unmodified.

NO!

Now you're getting it Sparky. OK here's mine: YES!

Now those two a cancel each other out, according to records there are approximately 3850 to 3950 MIG votes in any election. All we need is the 1100 West votes and an additional 876 votes from people that:

1. Are Logical
2. Are Less emotional
3. Are Realistic
4. Are Sick & tired of the USAPA BS that spews forth (did you read the Spike's latest PHL update?? What a load of garbage!).
5. Understand that the Nicolau Seniority list is the only legal seniority list, and that USAPA & SSM&P sold them a bag of rotten goods.
6. Want a new contract now, and are willing to work together to that end.

It shouldn't be that tough. See you in the voting booth. I'll be the guy with the "Agent of Leonidas" T-shirt on....

 

[Taco Rocket]

It shouldn't be that tough. See you in the voting booth.

This is a step in the right direction.

Why did it take you guys years to join (and thus vote)?

In retrospect, was that a tactical failure?

 

[Taco Rocket]

[*]Are Logical
[*]Are Less emotional
[*]Are Realistic
[*]Are Sick & tired of the USAPA BS that spews forth (did you read the Spike's latest PHL update?? What a load of garbage!).
[*]Understand that the Nicolau Seniority list is the only legal seniority list, and that USAPA & SSM&P sold them a bag of rotten goods.
[*]Want a new contract now, and are willing to work together to that end.

Well, most of these conditions are unrealistic. You must know that.

But if you want to appeal to wallets (not necessarily hearts) why don't you compensate them with a 20-25 year F/O pay scale that approaches captain's pay? Then it really wouldn't matter who is in what seat. It's an unorthodox idea but in the end money talks.