Usapa lost!!!!!!!!!

[Fly-n-hi]

Good viewing for FlyUnder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY6k50qB4Ys

Yeah, except that it probably is his fault in some way.

 

[imacdog]

Nah, it's not his fault that the airline he went to work for turned out to be a real turd. What he's failing to understand is that he does work for a real turd of an airline where 20 years of longevity does not afford much, if any seniority. He certainly could have seen the writing on the wall with furloughs that deep and applied to a successful company and ended up with a better career, but the failures of his company weren't a result of his skills as a pilot. How he deals with this, well that is his responsibility for sure.

 

[Dan Roman]

You would be wrong about the "division". Can't speak for others, but I personally have no problem making "eye contact" with anyone - I don't talk to AWA pilots because they are beneath contempt.

No "keyboard talk" here - just the facts. I can pretty much guarantee you that the ugliness is just getting started. Wish it wasn't so - but it is.

FlyUnder

If this isn't a classic example of ignorance I don't know what is, on so many levels.

 

[Metrojet]

It is quite possible that the Nicolau award can be implemented by the Court even without a joint CBA. And that is one of the remedies sought in this litigation.

C. The Court has authority and discretion to order the Airline to begin using the Nicolau Award for promotions and furloughs by a date certain, even if a single CBA is not yet finalized.​

The Ninth Circuit allows a district court to impose an interim scheme for furlough order and promotion order while the union complies with the court’s remedy of unfair representation in the context of a seniority merger.

See Bernard v. Air Line Pilots Assn., Intl., 873 F.2d 213, 215 (9th Cir. 1989).

The judgment approved in ​

​

Bernard “vacated and set aside [an existing] seniority integration agreement … and … specified the basis by which pilots would be furloughed, promoted and given flying assignments in the interim period until a new agreement could be reached.” Id. (emphasis added).

Following ​

​

Bernard, this Court has authority and discretion to direct the Airline to begin using the Nicolau Award for promotions, furloughs, and

giving flying assignments before a single CBA is finalized. ​

Plaintiffs concede, however, that prior to doing so, the Court should afford the Airline opportunity to be heard. (See doc 439).​

​

FDJ2 -

I assume this legal wording came from the plaintiff's attorney - I do not remember reading this in any of Judge Wake's rulings during the trial, but I am pretty sure he said he would not take away an individual's right to vote on a CBA.

Metrojet
​

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2 -

I assume this legal wording came from the plaintiff's attorney - I do not remember reading this in any of Judge Wake's rulings during the trial, but I am pretty sure he said he would not take away an individual's right to vote on a CBA.

Metrojet
[/LEFT]

You are correct, this wording comes from the plaintiff's attorney. I very much doubt that the judge will take away the right to vote on a CBA, but that is a different animal than implementing Nicolau.

It would not surprise me to see the court order Nicolau implemented until such time as there is a joint CBA.

USAPA's has been found guilty by a jury of failing to fairly represent the west pilots. USAPA's bad faith attempt to by-pass a seniority list which is the product of a mutually agreed upon final and binding process has been exposed.

At the end of the day the Nicolau award is the only legally recognized joint list, it can not be negotiated away to give the majority east an advantage over the minority west.

USAPA's scheme to by-pass a final and binding seniority list will never survive legal challenge. Like it or not, Nicolau is the seniority list and it will ultimately be implemented, with or without a joint CBA.

 

[Metrojet]

You are correct, this wording comes from the plaintiff's attorney. I very much doubt that the judge will take away the right to vote on a CBA, but that is a different animal than implementing Nicolau.

It would not surprise me to see the court order Nicolau implemented until such time as there is a joint CBA.

USAPA's has been found guilty by a jury of failing to fairly represent the west pilots. USAPA's bad faith attempt to by-pass a seniority list which is the product of a mutually agreed upon final and binding process has been exposed.

At the end of the day the Nicolau award is the only legally recognized joint list, it can not be negotiated away to give the majority east an advantage over the minority west.

USAPA's scheme to by-pass a final and binding seniority list will never survive legal challenge. Like it or not, Nicolau is the seniority list and it will ultimately be implemented, with or without a joint CBA.

FDJ2 -

I understand your point - I just question when you say the "Nic" will ultimately be implemented, (in the current form) with or without a joint CBA? From my understanding - in order for us to combine flight operations as defined in the Transition Agreement - we must have and approve a joint CBA? Without a joint CBA - we remain separate operations.

On another point - and I do not mean to inflame - as it relates to the term "final and binding" - have you ever heard of a criminal decision being overturned when evidence surfaces to prove that the original conviction is wrong (DNA etc). Without a fence to protect what each group brought to the merger of the corporations - The Nic in its current form doesn't address the east "attrition" or the west being invaded by the 517. Judge Wake did not allow the jury to hear any testimony about DOH with conditions and restrictions. Would an Appeal Judge allow this? I do not know for sure - but I do know this is costing US (East & West) a lot of money in legal fees and lost dollars in pay if we had a joint contract. That is why I say at this time it is critical for both sides to negotiate rather than litigate.

Metrojet

 

[denny]

Metrojet,

The issue of a problem with the Nic list has already been addressed. As part of the process an investigation was launched to see if there was any fraud or misapplication of policy in the conception of the arbitrated list. No problems were found and the process went on to the next step - court intervention.

Since there were numerous steps in the process most people do not realize that by the time the issue gets to the federal courts the issue of seniority is no longer the issue. The issue was whether USAPA intended and acted to avoid implementing the list. The court found them guilty of that. The original Nic list did have fences and conditions which have long since expired. Over the last two years USAPA has acted in a concerted manner to avoid the arbitrated list. The court can force implementation of the arbitrated list now or the court can tie it to any negotiated agreement. The Nic list will be part of the next contract no matter what. The contract will most certainly be up for a vote by the membership but not the seniority list since the union already has abided by the process to make up the list.

 

[flybywire]

The contract will most certainly be up for a vote by the membership

Are all pilots on the west in good standing with the union? Is that not a company policy at this time? If a contract comes up for a vote how do they expect to vote?

 

[Captzaahlie]

This is absolutely nothing compared to what is coming down the road. AWA pilots are dreaming of their windfall and have absolutely no concept of the powder keg that is set to go off.

Do you really think you are going to ride into town and steal our jobs? Good luck - you are going to need it.

Flyunder

Man! I'm even shaken over this (threat?) while on furlough.....

Hold on a second I want to just make sure I bolted the front door tonight......

(sarcasm implied ~ because I know you just wouldn't get it unless I spelled it out for you, ****************************** bag)

 

[denny]

Flybywire,

Union membership is entirely up the individual. The company has no say in the matter. Now that the seniority issue is resolved many west pilots are now becoming members so they can vote.

Flyunder,

I understand your frustration but it is not of the west's making. It is the policy that both groups are bound to. If there is a powder keg coming I'll be more than entertained watching!