USAPA is serious this time

[Redmeat]

You think there's even the slightest chance in hell that Doogie is going to enforce your agency shop provisions for you?

I bet Doogie would if he needed pilot positions eliminated. For him it would be strictly a business decision...non emotional.

Professional pilots tend to forget that this is a business first and foremost, and not a "passion".

Shareholders are Numero Uno.

 

[PCL_128]

I bet Doogie would if he needed pilot positions eliminated. For him it would be strictly a business decision...non emotional.

Professional pilots tend to forget that this is a business first and foremost, and not a "passion".

Shareholders are Numero Uno.

Doogie knows that the litigation that would ensue wouldn't be worth the efforts. He's better off furloughing from the bottom than getting involved in the labor battles.

 

[Redmeat]

Doogie knows that the litigation that would ensue wouldn't be worth the efforts. He's better off furloughing from the bottom than getting involved in the labor battles.

That is exactly my point. Technically he has labor law on his side. USAPA is the shop union...no dues...technically you can be fired. Since when has airline management been afraid of litigation???

Personally, I feel sorry for all involved...I don't think anyone thinking clearly thinks US Airways is gonna make it outta this ...

 

[Cowboy75]

He's better off furloughing from the bottom than getting involved in the labor battles.

Let's hope for no more furloughs. If there are more layoffs in the future, it will likely be from the seniority list the company has accepted.

 

[TWA Dude]

Source ?

USAPA. 94.1% is correct (at least until the challenge arbitration). I'm not sure about the 65% average at other carriers. The APA is 85% and I thought ALPA was too.

 

[Captzaahlie]

yawn...
bedtime...

 

[doh]

MCDU, you're back! Good, you can answer my question now. What is the plan if usapa loses? There is now a good possibility that will happen. What plan does usapa have going forward if they lose the appeal? I am going to ask you every time you chime in on a thread until you answer me. East and west need a credible plan for contract negotiations regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit. Usapa hasn't shown that they have any plan, credible or otherwise. So what's going on, oh informed one?

 

[Thurman Merman]

The germane expenses that you're referring to also include contract maintenance (discipline protection, grievance filings, arbitrations, etc...). It's not just negotiations. Usually it's not a whole lot less than normal dues, and with a union like USAPA that doesn't do a whole hell of a lot of lobbying in DC, you would probably see very little adjustment from normal dues.

"What in the Hell do the Germans have to do with this.... Funny you sounded taller on radio..."

another hint-

"Don't you ever, EVER threaten your Daddy like that again. When I get home I'm punchin' your Momma in the mouth because there ain't KNOW WAY you came from my loins...."

Anyone? anyone?

 

[MCDU]

MCDU, you're back! Good, you can answer my question now. What is the plan if usapa loses? There is now a good possibility that will happen. What plan does usapa have going forward if they lose the appeal? I am going to ask you every time you chime in on a thread until you answer me. East and west need a credible plan for contract negotiations regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit. Usapa hasn't shown that they have any plan, credible or otherwise. So what's going on, oh informed one?

The plan is to never let the Nic be implemented. Voting down the contract, or worst case they will burn the place down. The FAA is also involved and they know that the Nic will not work, when you have someone with 18 yrs pulling gear for a 4 year guy that is now furloughed. Unsafe. Just like when Westies claim a East J/S is unsafe and distracting.

If USAPA loses, no contract will be voted for with the NIC the way it is. Back to ALPA stalemate. So, as long as no SLI occurs with the Nic, the East is doing its job in protecting their jobs they had at the time. Seperate ops forever I guess. No money in the world can give you your seniority number back. West keep their planes and East keeps theirs.

One more time: They can not implement a list without a joint contract. That is how ALPA hoped a compromise could be found.The EAST had veto power and ALPA hoped that the West could agree on protections for East jobs. That would have given ALPA enough votes to stay on. But when the West wanted it all and did not agree to give any protections for East jobs and without any hope of a Joint contract due to the Nic turd an independent pilot union was formed to get rid of the stalemate.

ALPA hoped they could get the West to agree on a compromise, because unlike the Air Wisconsin MVA merger, USAIR outnumbered the West 2 to 1. and USAIR did not want to go into trusteeship like Air Wisconsin. they needede out to protect the few jobs they had after downsizing to min. fleet.

Once again.This is not the first merger that ended up like this. The difference is that this time it happened to a pilot group that was much bigger. You would think ALPA would have learned that their merger policy is a simple guide line that has to go to arbitration. There is a reason that no other employee group uses such a controversial method. DOH works. It might be a tough pill to swallow, but in the end, it is fair. all airline DOH mergers go alot smoother. DOH with C and R work, because in also allows for protections of Capt seat. What it does not allow is a windfall.

The West wants to change that and hopes the judge forces a SLI, but that will not happen, because he would then change the merger policy they agreed to. So basically, if USAPA loses in the end, it will be a stalemate.

How about the Nic with the same conditions and restrictions the West would get if DOH was used. I bet all East pilots would agree on that. So , how about it Westies. Lets use the Nic with conditions and restrictions you would get under DOH.

Another thing to watch out for is the MDA suit that is moving along. The courts will determine Midatlantic pilots had jobs and that the Arbitrator used a wrong list. ALPA is being sued. You can not hold an ALPA position and be furloughed. MDA was a recall and MDA pilots had jobs. The evidence will prove that MDA was in fact USAIR and thus a wrong list was used to determine SLI. There never was airline MDA. MDA was like Continental Micronesia.
The judge will the force the Nic invalid, due to a wrong list be used and placing active E 170 captains with 18 years behind a probation pilot.


M

 

[Fly4hire]

You Westies are a piece of work.

Longevity has everything to do with DOH.

Everything is based on DOH.

M

Too bad the binding arbitration (that you agreed to) decided otherwise - both with you guys and NW/DAL.

The difference is the new DAL group licked their wounds and got to work.

 

[Cowboy75]

From armyofleonidas.org:

We had a meet and greet with the attorneys this week. Marty Harper spoke for about a half an hour concerning the trial and where we go from here. Dr. Jacob made a presentation that recapped the arguments presented by either side, the applicable law, and he discussed the jury instructions. Plaintiff John Bostic discussed the career progression charts involving several of the plaintiffs. Finally, we would like to emphasize a very prescient statement made by Attorney Katie Brown. She stood up in a rather impromptu manner when someone asked a rhetorical question about what the plaintiffs had won. Her answer was quite clear (paraphrasing):

The West pilots have won quite a lot as USAPA's DOH is now dead. Without this lawsuit, USAPA would have likely prevailed in its DOH quest and every West pilot would not be worrying about remedies, but instead each of you would be witnessing the destruction of your career as East pilots who brought nothing more to the merger other than furloughs would be jumping ahead of most West pilots.

 

[cactusboy53]

You Westies are a piece of work.

I thought this ..wha wha wha wha wha ....at its purest. :crying:

Longevity has everything to do with DOH.

Everything is based on DOH.

The greedy- I .. wha wha wha wha....the big picture.

M

Don't worry Marty. Nicolau & the two neutrals got the big picture. Judge Wake and nine jurors got the big picture. More jurors will get the big picture starting August 11th. The Board of Appeals will surely get the big picture. The Supreme Court will laugh your big picture out of the courtroom. AND nearly EVERY OTHER professional aviator and any other property gets the big picture.:smash:

Please go to your airline's website and peddle your opinion there. It is not required or desired here.

 

[IBNAV8R]

I'm with MCDU on this one. Nic, with conditions and restrictions. Fortunately, these have already been agreed upon.

1. Final
2. Binding

 

[xray678]

MDA was a recall and MDA pilots had jobs. The evidence will prove that MDA was in fact USAIR and thus a wrong list was used to determine SLI. There never was airline MDA. MDA was like Continental Micronesia.
The judge will the force the Nic invalid, due to a wrong list be used and placing active E 170 captains with 18 years behind a probation pilot.

The problem is the E-170 is an RJ. Sorry, but even if I accept that the MDA pilots were active USAir pilots, I personally would still put them below a mainline AWA pilot. I don't think the MDA issue will go anywhere.

 

[MCDU]

AWA brought worthless jobs to the merger. Good that SLI is not done. It would be all EAST furloughs.

M
US Airways To Cut 400 Flight Attendants


Jun 15, 2009
By Darren Shannon

US Airways is planning to reduce its flight attendant ranks by about 400 staff due to a lower-than-expected rate of attrition and planned capacity cuts for the fall.
In the carrier’s internal newsletter AboutUS the carrier requested voluntary leaves of absence and furloughs, but warned it would impose the cuts if required.
About 300 of the cuts are planned for US Airways’ Las Vegas and Phoenix bases, while the remaining 100 are planned for Boston, Charlotte, New York LaGuardia, Philadelphia and Washington’s National Airport.
“Several factors have contributed to flight attendant overstaffing,” US Airways told its employees. “Over the past year, numerous adjustments have been made to the airline’s schedule to address a decline in passenger traffic brought about by a weakening worldwide economy. The pull-down in flights led to reductions in force in the pilot, agent, ramp, management and other work groups totaling about 1,300 positions.
“Overstaffing in the flight attendant group was expected to be absorbed through a combination of normal attrition (i.e. employees retiring or simply leaving their job) and/or various voluntary leave of absence programs that the airline has been offering. Unfortunately, this did not happen and when combined with a reduction in our fall schedule, it’s become necessary to adjust flight attendant staffing to better match current and near-term flying levels,” the carrier added.
US Airways noted that that attrition among its West Coast-based flight attendants — employees that once worked for America West Airlines — has been almost 58% lower than the norm.
The carrier explained the majority of cuts are affecting Las Vegas and Phoenix because “our most significant capacity reductions in flying since last summer have been [from these two airports], including the elimination of Las Vegas night flying” (DAILY, Feb. 23). The other cuts are due entirely to the reduced fall schedule, said US Airways.
Hector Adler, VP of inflight services, said, “These are difficult times and we don’t make decisions like this lightly. I want to stress that we have waited as long as we could to address our overstaffing situation, hoping that attrition and other voluntary leave options would offset the need for today’s [June 11] action.”
Photo: US Airways

 

[TWA Dude]

The FAA is also involved and they know that the Nic will not work, ...

This is the Majors section of FI not the stand-up comedian section. Take my wife, please...

 

[Cowboy75]

Please go to your airline's website and peddle your opinion there. It is not required or desired here.

He's probably more qualified to share his opinions here:
http://www.gunthernet.com

 

[MCDU]

you like Gunther. Women love Gunther. I love Gunther. He is my p*ssycat.

M

 

[Carl S.]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the MDA suit is only looking for money at this point on from what I have read. They are not seeking anything but compensation for damages. I know USAPA is seeking snap backs and lost pension money also, but this MDA dream is on the PACER system for all to see.

 

[doh]

I think the MDA folks got the double twisting back shaft! But that is ALPA's fault on the USAirways side, not the west's problem. So the west should not have to come up with a remedy for them. ALPA and the east should be held responsible.