USAPA is serious this time

[Cowboy75]

From armyofleonidas.org:

We had a meet and greet with the attorneys this week. Marty Harper spoke for about a half an hour concerning the trial and where we go from here. Dr. Jacob made a presentation that recapped the arguments presented by either side, the applicable law, and he discussed the jury instructions. Plaintiff John Bostic discussed the career progression charts involving several of the plaintiffs. Finally, we would like to emphasize a very prescient statement made by Attorney Katie Brown. She stood up in a rather impromptu manner when someone asked a rhetorical question about what the plaintiffs had won. Her answer was quite clear (paraphrasing):

The West pilots have won quite a lot as USAPA's DOH is now dead. Without this lawsuit, USAPA would have likely prevailed in its DOH quest and every West pilot would not be worrying about remedies, but instead each of you would be witnessing the destruction of your career as East pilots who brought nothing more to the merger other than furloughs would be jumping ahead of most West pilots.

 

[cactusboy53]

You Westies are a piece of work.

I thought this ..wha wha wha wha wha ....at its purest. :crying:

Longevity has everything to do with DOH.

Everything is based on DOH.

The greedy- I .. wha wha wha wha....the big picture.

M

Don't worry Marty. Nicolau & the two neutrals got the big picture. Judge Wake and nine jurors got the big picture. More jurors will get the big picture starting August 11th. The Board of Appeals will surely get the big picture. The Supreme Court will laugh your big picture out of the courtroom. AND nearly EVERY OTHER professional aviator and any other property gets the big picture.:smash:

Please go to your airline's website and peddle your opinion there. It is not required or desired here.

 

[IBNAV8R]

I'm with MCDU on this one. Nic, with conditions and restrictions. Fortunately, these have already been agreed upon.

1. Final
2. Binding

 

[xray678]

MDA was a recall and MDA pilots had jobs. The evidence will prove that MDA was in fact USAIR and thus a wrong list was used to determine SLI. There never was airline MDA. MDA was like Continental Micronesia.
The judge will the force the Nic invalid, due to a wrong list be used and placing active E 170 captains with 18 years behind a probation pilot.

The problem is the E-170 is an RJ. Sorry, but even if I accept that the MDA pilots were active USAir pilots, I personally would still put them below a mainline AWA pilot. I don't think the MDA issue will go anywhere.

 

[MCDU]

AWA brought worthless jobs to the merger. Good that SLI is not done. It would be all EAST furloughs.

M
US Airways To Cut 400 Flight Attendants


Jun 15, 2009
By Darren Shannon

US Airways is planning to reduce its flight attendant ranks by about 400 staff due to a lower-than-expected rate of attrition and planned capacity cuts for the fall.
In the carrier’s internal newsletter AboutUS the carrier requested voluntary leaves of absence and furloughs, but warned it would impose the cuts if required.
About 300 of the cuts are planned for US Airways’ Las Vegas and Phoenix bases, while the remaining 100 are planned for Boston, Charlotte, New York LaGuardia, Philadelphia and Washington’s National Airport.
“Several factors have contributed to flight attendant overstaffing,” US Airways told its employees. “Over the past year, numerous adjustments have been made to the airline’s schedule to address a decline in passenger traffic brought about by a weakening worldwide economy. The pull-down in flights led to reductions in force in the pilot, agent, ramp, management and other work groups totaling about 1,300 positions.
“Overstaffing in the flight attendant group was expected to be absorbed through a combination of normal attrition (i.e. employees retiring or simply leaving their job) and/or various voluntary leave of absence programs that the airline has been offering. Unfortunately, this did not happen and when combined with a reduction in our fall schedule, it’s become necessary to adjust flight attendant staffing to better match current and near-term flying levels,” the carrier added.
US Airways noted that that attrition among its West Coast-based flight attendants — employees that once worked for America West Airlines — has been almost 58% lower than the norm.
The carrier explained the majority of cuts are affecting Las Vegas and Phoenix because “our most significant capacity reductions in flying since last summer have been [from these two airports], including the elimination of Las Vegas night flying” (DAILY, Feb. 23). The other cuts are due entirely to the reduced fall schedule, said US Airways.
Hector Adler, VP of inflight services, said, “These are difficult times and we don’t make decisions like this lightly. I want to stress that we have waited as long as we could to address our overstaffing situation, hoping that attrition and other voluntary leave options would offset the need for today’s [June 11] action.”
Photo: US Airways

 

[TWA Dude]

The FAA is also involved and they know that the Nic will not work, ...

This is the Majors section of FI not the stand-up comedian section. Take my wife, please...

 

[Cowboy75]

Please go to your airline's website and peddle your opinion there. It is not required or desired here.

He's probably more qualified to share his opinions here:
http://www.gunthernet.com

 

[MCDU]

you like Gunther. Women love Gunther. I love Gunther. He is my p*ssycat.

M

 

[Carl S.]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the MDA suit is only looking for money at this point on from what I have read. They are not seeking anything but compensation for damages. I know USAPA is seeking snap backs and lost pension money also, but this MDA dream is on the PACER system for all to see.

 

[doh]

I think the MDA folks got the double twisting back shaft! But that is ALPA's fault on the USAirways side, not the west's problem. So the west should not have to come up with a remedy for them. ALPA and the east should be held responsible.

 

[doh]

It's been said before that the judge can impose Nic without a joint contract. What is the precedent for that?

 

[PCL_128]

USAPA. 94.1% is correct (at least until the challenge arbitration). I'm not sure about the 65% average at other carriers. The APA is 85% and I thought ALPA was too.

Yes, ALPA is roughly 85%. ALPA does a lot of lobbying, though, which is excluded from germane expenses, so a union like USAPA that doesn't engage in that much activity on the Hill would be expected to have higher germane expenses.

It's been said before that the judge can impose Nic without a joint contract. What is the precedent for that?

I doubt he can impose the Nic without a contract, but he can probably issue an injunction requiring that any new TA must include the Nic.

 

[BeCareful!]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the MDA suit is only looking for money at this point on from what I have read. They are not seeking anything but compensation for damages. I know USAPA is seeking snap backs and lost pension money also, but this MDA dream is on the PACER system for all to see.

OK, consider yourself corrected, since you're wrong.

What is the "PACER" system?

 

[TWA Dude]

PACER was the res and flight planning system USAir used before Sabre. Darn, I'm old for remembering that.

 

[Captzaahlie]

PACER was the res and flight planning system USAir used before Sabre. Darn, I'm old for remembering that.

S- some
A- american dude
B- ba$tard
R- ruined
E-everything

Thats what the gate agents used to say during the switch.....

 

[Joey Bagodonutz]

Sorry but Pacer is the Federal Judiciary's centralized registration, billing, and technical support center for electronic access to U.S. District, Bankruptcy, and Appellate court records.

I got a feeling Judge Wake is going to place the Nic list so far up the Easts behinds it will be all they can taste for years to come.

 

[Fast43]

OK, consider yourself corrected, since you're wrong.

What is the "PACER" system?

Pacer is where you can track the lack of any progress in the MDA suit. Even if there was progress. The only remedy sought is monetary. IE, it will absolutely not have the effect you are wishing for.

You can consider yourself corrected..................!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

you like Gunther. Women love Gunther. I love Gunther. He is my p*ssycat.

M

Hey Mcdoosh: (I love it how you respond to Mcdoosh)
Yawn!
You like men, your east coast man love likes men.
Who cares, in the end, you are still a ****************************** bag!
Get back to flight instruction doosh! Tell your man, final and binding means just that.

 

[Mamma]

you like Gunther. Women love Gunther. I love Gunther. He is my p*ssycat.

M

I found you and your p*ssycat! Play MCDU off Keyboard Cat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqAypbgaUKM&feature=related

 

[MCDU]

VI. CONCLUSION
44 Because we conclude that the arbitrator failed to satisfy the due notice requirement of 45 U.S.C. § 153 First (j), and, under the CBA, the grievance should be heard by the AirTran Airways Pilots' System Board of Adjustment, the district court's summary judgment setting aside the arbitrator's award and remanding the grievance to the Board is affirmed.

45 AFFIRMED.

Remember this at Airtran and Valujet merger. Arbitrations are not always final.

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/351/351.F3d.1338.02-15185.html

 

[Cowboy75]

VI. CONCLUSION
44 Because we conclude that the arbitrator failed to satisfy the due notice requirement of 45 U.S.C. § 153 First (j), and, under the CBA, the grievance should be heard by the AirTran Airways Pilots' System Board of Adjustment, the district court's summary judgment setting aside the arbitrator's award and remanding the grievance to the Board is affirmed.

MCDU,

This is one of the jury instructions. It is more relevant to the argument than the Airtran example that you have provided.


When you consider Plaintiffs' evidence of pretext, remember that the relevant question is whether USAPA's reason was not the real reason for USAPA's actions. You are not to consider whether USAPA's reason showed poor or erroneous judgment. You are not to consider USAPA's wisdom. However, you may consider whether USAPA's stated reason is the true reason or merely a pretext. Plaintiffs have the burden to persuade you by a preponderance of the evidence that USAPA took action against Plaintiffs for improper reasons. The parties have strong differences of opinion on which method of seniority integration or proposal is to be preferred. You are not asked to decide whether the Nicolau Award or the Defendant's seniority proposal is to be preferred. You are not asked to decide whether Mr. Nicolau properly conducted the arbitration or reached a preferable result.

If you decide that USAPA was not actually motivated by a legitimate union objective in adopting and promoting its seniority proposal and did so only to enhance the rights of East Pilots at the expense of West Pilots, then you must find for Plaintiffs. If you decide that USAPA was actually motivated by a legitimate union objective hi adopting and promoting its seniority proposal, then you must find for USAPA.

 

[Fast43]

VI. CONCLUSION
44 Because we conclude that the arbitrator failed to satisfy the due notice requirement of 45 U.S.C. § 153 First (j), and, under the CBA, the grievance should be heard by the AirTran Airways Pilots' System Board of Adjustment, the district court's summary judgment setting aside the arbitrator's award and remanding the grievance to the Board is affirmed.

45 AFFIRMED.

Remember this at Airtran and Valujet merger. Arbitrations are not always final.

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/351/351.F3d.1338.02-15185.html

Talk about reaching.................


Have you noticed that usapa has not attacked the Award in that process only tried to ignore it.

Fast

 

[becket]

VI. CONCLUSION
44 Because we conclude that the arbitrator failed to satisfy the due notice requirement of 45 U.S.C. § 153 First (j), and, under the CBA, the grievance should be heard by the AirTran Airways Pilots' System Board of Adjustment, the district court's summary judgment setting aside the arbitrator's award and remanding the grievance to the Board is affirmed.

45 AFFIRMED.

Remember this at Airtran and Valujet merger. Arbitrations are not always final.

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/351/351.F3d.1338.02-15185.html

Why is the concept of "RELEVANCE" so distasteful to the common Easthole? The Judge and Jury already spoke in *THIS* case. You're side got it's ass handed to it....remember? Remedy will be out shortly and it will be another titanic size nail in your fake unions coffin.

 

[Ralph Cramden]

You Westies are a piece of work.

I thought this would be over in February. This is far from over and like the Air Wisconsin pilots, USAIR pilots will fight til the end.

Air Wisconsin was the first airline to be put in to trusteeship by ALPA, thus allowing the cram down of the seniority list with MVA. (Mississippi Valley)

Air Wisconsin went always date of hire with C and R (Aspen, MAX), with the expection of the MVA merger and look, it came out just like the AWA AAA merger. A huge mess. Just ask some of the 1978 Air Wisconsin DOH how they feel about MVA and how ALPA screwed them. The few that are left still hate each other after 30 years . The DOH mergers all worked out fine, because sooner or latter you will respect it.

Air Wisconsin tried everything, just like the the USAIR pilots to get rid of a flawed SLI. The 50 that are left are mostly MVA and enjoyed their Windfall at the expense of original Whiskey pilots. When United downsized them to 16 146 all the MVA pilots were able to hold on. History does repeat itself. DOH is the only fair way and history proves it. United will soon be asking for DOH because times change, your DOH does not. Trying to leapfrog many years of service is greed at its purest.

Longevity has everything to do with DOH.

Everything is based on DOH.

The greedy- I want to fly jets now PFT crowd of the 90's- just do not get it. A lost generation that is focused on me and not the big picture.

M

Hold on a minute Bucky...

Air Willie vs MVA was a bit different that what you remember. I was there.

Air Willie offered a staple list to MVA's offer of DOH. It went to arbitration when the parties couldn't agree to anything.

The arbitrator ruled stay in your seat, meaning ratio CAs and FOs in seat based on equivalent airplane size. As the average Willie guy was 3 to 5 years senior for an equilivent seat, the award was super seniority for MVA.

While I will spot you MVA got credit for planes not yet flying at award time, the Willie guys really blew their case before the arbitrator. The irony is they could have had DOH with a handshake, but were greedy and pushed for staple to the end. They got what they deserved for being greedy and unprepared!

Left that mess in '93 and understand there is still hatred over it.

HA! Mudders rule!

No dog in the east/west fight, just saying with such a big disparity in longevity vs position between the groups, you will never be whole or happy.

 

[Fast43]

Hold on a minute Bucky...

Air Willie vs MVA was a bit different that what you remember. I was there.

Air Willie offered a staple list to MVA's offer of DOH. It went to arbitration when the parties couldn't agree to anything.

The arbitrator ruled stay in your seat, meaning ratio CAs and FOs in seat based on equivalent airplane size. As the average Willie guy was 3 to 5 years senior for an equilivent seat, the award was super seniority for MVA.

While I will spot you MVA got credit for planes not yet flying at award time, the Willie guys really blew their case before the arbitrator. The irony is they could have had DOH with a handshake, but were greedy and pushed for staple to the end. They got what they deserved for being greedy and unprepared!

Left that mess in '93 and understand there is still hatred over it.

HA! Mudders rule!

No dog in the east/west fight, just saying with such a big disparity in longevity vs position between the groups, you will never be whole or happy.

Gee, doesn't this sound familiar.

Fast

 

[MCDU]

Yeah, DOH would have worked. Trying to staple anyone was wrong. Like I said. DOH would have worked. Trying to staple and then get a slotted award was a double whammy. Greedy pilots.

M

 

[PCL_128]

VI. CONCLUSION
44 Because we conclude that the arbitrator failed to satisfy the due notice requirement of 45 U.S.C. § 153 First (j), and, under the CBA, the grievance should be heard by the AirTran Airways Pilots' System Board of Adjustment, the district court's summary judgment setting aside the arbitrator's award and remanding the grievance to the Board is affirmed.

45 AFFIRMED.

Remember this at Airtran and Valujet merger. Arbitrations are not always final.

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/351/351.F3d.1338.02-15185.html

Marty, you are completely misapplying the decision of the Mann-Dalland case for two primary reasons:

1. Mann-Dalland was a case involving arbitration at the airline's System Board of Adjustment, not a case involving arbitration under a union's Constitution & Bylaws. The NPA's Bylaws were not at issue in this case, the provisions of the RLA were.

2. The court didn't find against the actual seniority integration, they found against a procedural matter: notice to the parties of a grievance was not provided, and that's a requirement of the RLA. The pilots that were affected by this grievance were never properly notified of the hearing for the grievance arbitration, so they weren't able to attend and present their case.

In the case of the AAA/AWA SLI, the above issues don't apply at all. For one, the integration did not involve an RLA adjustment board hearing. Adjustment boards are part of the RLA and specifically defined in individual CBAs. SLIs within ALPA have nothing to do with adjustment boards. Second, "due notice" as required by the RLA for grievance hearings doesn't apply to arbitrations that are heard as a result of internal union Bylaws. "Due notice" provisions of the RLA are only relevant for adjustment board hearings. But even if "due notice" provisions of the RLA were applicable in this case, in wouldn't help your case, because the East was provided plenty of notice for every step of this process and in fact attended every hearing.

Sorry, but if Mann-Dalland is what Seham is trying to cling to, you're going to be sadly disappointed.

 

[Mamma]

MCDU, ouch! PCL, play him off...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqAyp...eature=related