USAPA: Downfall is coming from within!

[T2Bus]

The following came from USAPAWATCH.com

Mr. Cleary, you must think we are all fools. You are blaming our predicament on the 1800 former America West pilots who sued to protect themselves from their own bargaining agent. You then had the audacity to suggest that USAPA cannot win the ‘communications war’ as ‘they are better at Internet trash talk.’

Mr. Cleary, let’s get a few things straight:

You do not need to be at ‘war’ with your communications efforts. Truthful communiqués sans spin phrases such as ‘supremely confident’ would substantially increase the credibility of your updates.
You fired the first salvo with your RICO lawsuit against some former America West pilots. The case was dismissed with prejudice in a North Carolina district court in record time.
There is no east/west strategy to ‘sap’ anyone. The perception that USAPA and Mr. Seham are incapable of winning is grounded in fact, not some grand smear campaign. The lawsuits filed by the west pilots and former Empire/Shuttle pilots were costly endeavors. Unlike the Association, individual pilots are financially handcuffed when it comes to filing frivolous lawsuits.
Your BPR rejected a resolution to create a USAPA sponsored web board. The resolution was soundly defeated at your direction.
You promoted the concept of USAPA on the promise that it would eliminate the ALPA created logjam. To now claim that anticipated legal action against USAPA’s plan to disenfranchise the west pilots has resurrected the logjam is completely disingenuous. Given time, the east/west MEC’s might have reached an amicable agreement. You can’t blame the west MEC for not moving prior to the vote as there existed no warranty for any concessions made. Once 2700 pilots joined your crusade they gave up the right to negotiate a settlement. Former MEC Chairman Jack Stephan was spot on when he predicted that the fastest path to Nicolau implementation was through the decertification of ALPA.

Despite loss after loss, you somehow believe that USAPA has been victorious in the defense of the indefensible. TheEye absolutely agrees that the losers in this debacle are each and every US Airways pilot who works for gutter wages and under bankruptcy era work rules. The fact that JetBlue E190 FO’s will make more than five year Airbus FO’s is your fault Mr. Cleary. You are the one promoting the de facto parking of contract talks during the estimated 2-3 year appeals process. How dare you blame those of us willing to move on when it is your selfishness delaying our progress.

How ironic that you now feel that ‘the only way forward is with open dialogue and moving forward as one.’ The opportunity for open dialogue ended on that famous van ride to Herndon.

The reality is that the only way to move on is for you to vacate your position and yield the gavel. But as we all know, such a voluntary move is highly unlikely.

Instead, we will continue to reach out and encourage USAPA membership with the singular goal of ending your delusional crusade. It may take time, but we believe that there are enough east/west pilots willing to join together and end the logjam you created.

Mark our words; as membership increases your power will substantially decrease.

 

[Redmeat]

Where is the **YAWN** icon?

 

[Cowboy75]

You fired the first salvo with your RICO lawsuit against some former America West pilots. The case was dismissed with prejudice in a North Carolina district court in record time.

An association that sues the very pilots it pretends to represent.

Pathetic.

 

[Whine Lover]

US Airways = The Epitome of Management's Dreams


Too Bad. So Sad. For ALL involved.


YKW

 

[T2Bus]

Where is the **YAWN** icon?

It was written by an East pilot...times are changing and the East Pilots are now seeing what 1.5 million dollars of their dues is paying for.... lawyers that tell them what they want to hear. Wake up guys, tell Cleary NO MORE!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Seham... getting rich off of pilots emotions for decades....

 

[Crzipilot]

sounds like some alpa diehards upset on their loss of FPL. Oh well.......


FYI. I think even if the "kirby" proposal was accepted. Jetblue 190 f/o's would still make more than our Bus f/o's..... but lets not confuse facts

 

[captairbusbb]

sounds like some alpa diehards upset on their loss of FPL. Oh well.......


FYI. I think even if the "kirby" proposal was accepted. Jetblue 190 f/o's would still make more than our Bus f/o's..... but lets not confuse facts

Crzipilot...........?????????

What is your point?......You a diehard USAPA supporter, what does this have to do with FPL and ALPA?

Your NAC pulled out of negotiations......The longer you accept USAPA's postion, the longer it will take to make what Jetblue f/o's will be reaping and live with loa 93 in infinity.

Make no mistake, the facts are the facts, (and don't let facts stand in the way of fiction) and the longer you support USAPA, you will be fed bullshiite from your leader Clearyhole, and you will stay at the bottom of the payroll barrel until you see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[T2Bus]

sounds like some alpa diehards upset on their loss of FPL. Oh well.......


FYI. I think even if the "kirby" proposal was accepted. Jetblue 190 f/o's would still make more than our Bus f/o's..... but lets not confuse facts

How much are the lawyers making off USAPA? Let me answer that for you...1.5 million of your dues (..not counting fees for 2009). And for what? Where's the "big contract" that USAPA has promise before the election? Everything they have said are lies!

 

[T2Bus]

More from USAPAWATCH.COM


"It is my meeting"

The Charlotte reps never cease to amaze us with their ability to create divisiveness. With support for their crusade waning, it is clear that they are resorting to desperate measures to maintain absolute power.

“It is the recommendation of your domicile representatives that, if confronted in any airport, immediately call 911 from your cell phone and report the confrontation to local authorities.” – CLT Domicile Update 5/28/09

Capt. ‘General’ Day’s latest call to arms tasks east pilots to call 911 whenever they encounter west pilots. Imagine your surprise when you say ‘hello’ to your fellow aviator at the airport Starbucks and instead of offering a cordial reply the police are summoned. You may scoff at this scenario, but this is exactly what General Day is instructing his members to do.

Thankfully, most US Airways pilots have had enough of the divisiveness perpetuated by the Cleary and General Day types. If losing a major DFR case wasn’t enough, they now believe that the west will be pummeled into submission by the employ of scare tactics and threats of retaliation.

To be sure, there have been unprofessional encounters initiated by pilots from both sides. If General Day were a real union representative, he would encourage his members to contact their professional standards representative to resolve the issue. Before your next trip print out their contact information and carry it with you. It can be found on the Members Only Section of the USAPA website. Just click on ‘yellow pages’ on the left hand column. There are nine volunteers listed for your convenience.

It’s your choice. Obviously if you feel bodily harm is eminent, the proper authorities should be notified. But we all know this is highly unlikely. The next time a crew extends a friendly hello, ignore General Day and put the cell phone back in the pocket. Instead of dialing 911, just return the gesture or remain silent.

General Day’s divisive orders must be rejected. Fostering east/west unity must become USAPA’s number one goal. Like it or not, we will be sharing cockpits sooner than later.

TheEye also asks General Day to publish the unedited video of the CLT meeting for all members to examine. Hopefully the scene where he scoffs at two E190 pilots will be included so we can witness the General proclaim that the A330 pilots are not interested in their plight. Of course this excerpt will probably be cut from the published version as it is diametrically opposed to his empathetic (and fake) plea for their cause in today’s domicile update.

The bottom line is General Day doesn’t care about the E190 pilots nor is he interested in building east/west unity.

Sitting on the sidelines is unacceptable.

It’s time to join.

Posted by TheEye at 5/28/2009 5:35 PM | View Comments (3) | Add Comment

 

[BeCareful!]

Crzipilot...........?????????

What is your point?......You a diehard USAPA supporter, what does this have to do with FPL and ALPA?

Your NAC pulled out of negotiations......The longer you accept USAPA's postion, the longer it will take to make what Jetblue f/o's will be reaping and live with loa 93 in infinity.

Make no mistake, the facts are the facts, (and don't let facts stand in the way of fiction) and the longer you support USAPA, you will be fed bullshiite from your leader Clearyhole, and you will stay at the bottom of the payroll barrel until you see the light at the end of the tunnel.

His point, obviously, is that the opinion pasted into the beginning of thread was likely written by a card carrying member of the former ALPA GAG (Give Away Gang), a group who is now most aligned with your pilots in the "let's move on right now and get that big, fat, lucrative contract that Doug and Scott are just dying to offer us" delusion.

We are very familiar with these pilots, their tactics, and their motives. Funny that it's posted here as if it's some significant development in the east ranks. What a joke.

 

[Hpilot]

Will USAPA fail? Who knows, whether they do or don't the damage is already done. All the pilots both East and West could have had a contract on par with Delta. That chance is gone. Because a large percentage of East pilots wanted want was not rightfully theirs the door has closed and the bus has left. Could USAPA be turned into a real union. That would depend on the East. How many were just blind and with time could see the light? How many are scumbags who will never care what is right or wrong? Thank goodness I left before this all came down.

 

[Bringupthebird]

His point, obviously, is that the opinion pasted into the beginning of thread was likely written by a card carrying member of the former ALPA GAG (Give Away Gang), a group who is now most aligned with your pilots in the "let's move on right now and get that big, fat, lucrative contract that Doug and Scott are just dying to offer us" delusion.

How would you use divisiveness and disunity (the only things that USAPA has cultivated) to get any type of contract? When has splitting the pilot group ever lead to major improvements?

The Cleary's of the world have never delivered on their rhetoric, but idiots keep voting them into office just to make themselves feel like they're doing something.

Instead of actually doing something.

 

[tzskipper]

Is recalling the Officers of USAPA not an option?

S

 

[Crzipilot]

Well it is an option. though I think you have to be a member to start a recall action.

Die hard Usapa? No, not me.

Ya, B6 f/o's will be making more than the east f/o's. But uhmm...aren't they also quite a bit above that industry leading West contract to? Even with that big fat offer from kirby? So what's your point?

 

[tie1on]

you can educate ignorance but you have stupidityfor a lifetime.

 

[Crzipilot]

Another ounce of false information. No union wants to deal with usapa? hmmm....interesting...

CAPA is a trade association comprised of over 28,000 professional pilots. CAPA's purpose is to address safety, security, legislative and regulatory issues affecting the professional flight deck crew member on matters of common interest to the individual member unions. The five members of CAPA are:

Union​

Airline ​

Allied Pilots Association (APA)
American
Independent Pilots Association (IPA)
UPS
Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (SWAPA)
Southwest
Teamsters Local 1224
ABX Air
US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA)
US Airways

 

[captairbusbb]

Another ounce of false information. No union wants to deal with usapa? hmmm....interesting...

CAPA is a trade association comprised of over 28,000 professional pilots. CAPA's purpose is to address safety, security, legislative and regulatory issues affecting the professional flight deck crew member on matters of common interest to the individual member unions. The five members of CAPA are:

Union


Airline ​

Allied Pilots Association (APA)
American
Independent Pilots Association (IPA)
UPS
Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (SWAPA)
Southwest
Teamsters Local 1224
ABX Air
US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA)
US Airways

The sole purpose of usapa's birth was to overthrow a federally arbitrated seniority list.

APA, IPA UPS, SWAPA Teamsters Local 224, ABX, and USAPA, do not represent the West.

CAPA does not give one SHIITE about usapa......They all know your motive was to put the west under the bus. They know that you usapa supporters are all about yourselves and that is why you have only approximately 100 west members in "good" standing. What does that tell you about solidarity and unification?

If you think CAPA is looking out for your well being and support, you are smoking some pretty damn good crack.

You and Mcdoosh are on the same page...........I'm truly sorry that you couldn't find another job while you were furloghed and you tried to recapture your lost position at the expense of the westyz, but NIC, Judge Wake, and the RICO lawsuit all seem to think that the merger was not your WINDFALL to steal jobs from gainfully employed people.

You need to stop listening to cleary and admit that your dues you are paying to an experimental association are going directly to Seham.

But send them your dues anyway............In the 14 months of usapa's inception, ask yourself..........where has it gotten me? Nowhere. No new contract, no DOH, no unity, No nothing. Only the extention of LOA 93.

You keep losing and only promise an appeal......Guess where the appeal is going!!

 

[Tejas-Jet]

YAwwwwwnnnnnnn...

 

[Ocity]

Another ounce of false information. No union wants to deal with usapa? hmmm....interesting...

CAPA is a trade association comprised of over 28,000 professional pilots. CAPA's purpose is to address safety, security, legislative and regulatory issues affecting the professional flight deck crew member on matters of common interest to the individual member unions. The five members of CAPA are:

Union​

Airline ​

Allied Pilots Association (APA)
American
Independent Pilots Association (IPA)
UPS
Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (SWAPA)
Southwest
Teamsters Local 1224
ABX Air
US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA)
US Airways

You can thank the good Hero "Sully" for the admittance into CAPA. CAPA thought they can get more respect on the hill if they counted the hero in their ranks...

 

[Speedtape]

Watching from the sidelines, it's time to end the madness! Everyone is getting hurt. There is no bad time to recall bad leadership!

Many promises were made, nothing has happened but gridlock! Purge the bad leadership and focus on what two former great pilot groups can accomplish when pulling on the same end of the rope! Don't allow the majority to be ruled by the minority. Right now, your situation is equivalent to being lost in the desert for 40 years. Nothing will change until good men and good leadership take action.

As an offline ALPA member, we want you back! We are stronger with you, and you are stronger with access to the ALPA Toolbox!

 

[T2Bus]

It's time to throw out the thugs who have denied both pilot groups out of a good contract and labor peace. But, Cleary and his merry men in green panties don't want that. They just want DOH that gives them more numbers from being displaced to the street. What does Final and Binding mean when both sides signed the paper! Judge Wake knows! Why is it OK to place a 23 year Captain in the top 10% of his list (...all time in the left seat) to a mid range FO in the 49% level. Not cool....

 

[T2Bus]

This was the goal of the merger:

ALPA Merger Policy specifies 5 goals for seniority list integration.

They are, in no particular order:

Preserve jobs.
Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.
Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

ALPA Merger Policy makes no mention of date of hire or any other method of achieving these goals. The Merger Representatives must determine which method or combinations of methods best meet the goals. The goals all address what your seniority will buy upon integration and into the future. This is the yardstick of fairness by which any proposed method of integration must be judged. When you meet America West pilots, be as welcoming as you can. Remember that the seniority list integration will not be accomplished in the jump seat, the crew room, web boards or the hotel van. Trust the process and trust your merger team to do the very best job we can in protecting the best interests of all US Airways pilots.

 

[T2Bus]

The ALPA Arbitration Board
-------------------------------------------------------------x
In the Matter of the Seniority Integration of
The Pilots of US Airways, Inc.
and
The Pilots of America West Airlines, Inc.
-------------------------------------------------------------x
The ALPA Arbitration Board
George Nicolau, Chairman
Captain Stephen Gillen, Pilot Neutral
Captain James P. Brucia, Pilot Neutral
APPEARANCES
For the US Airways Pilots:
Katz & Ranzman, P.C.
By: Daniel M. Katz, Esq.
Jason M. Whiteman. Esq.
For the America West Pilots:
Bredhoff & Kaiser, P.L.L.C.
By: Jeffrey R. Freund, Esq.
Roger Pollack, Esq.
Lisa Powell, Esq.
OPINION
AND
AWARD

On May 19, 2005, US Airways and America West Airlines
announced that they would merge, taking the name US Airways. Both
pilot groups were represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, which
has a Merger Policy goveming the integration of pilot seniority lists.
Pursuant to that Policy, each group chooses a Merger Committee,
whose representatives are charged with exchanging employment data
and seeking to determine a fair and equitable integration of their
respective lists.

2
The Policy, in pertinent part, provides as follows:
The merger representatives shall carefully weigh all the
equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint
session, the merger representatives should attempt to
match equities to various methods of integration until a fair
and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the
following goals, in no particular order:

a. Preserve jobs.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the
other.
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of
living.
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

If the Merger Representatives are unable to agree on an
integrated list, the matter may be referred to Mediation-Arbitration or
directly to arbitration if the Representatives choose that path. In this
instance, despite a year of negotiating efforts, there was no agreement
on a list. Subsequently, the Representatives choose the Undersigned
as Board Chairman and opted for the Med-Arb process. Those
mediation efforts, held over the course of five days in October 2006,
were similarly unsuccessful. Thereafter, the Parties agreed on the
arbitration ground rules, and, pursuant to the Policy, each chose a
Pilot Neutral from ALPA's Pilot Neutral Master List as a nonvoting
member of the Arbitration Board.

 

[T2Bus]

Where is Bradford? Why didn't he defend USAPA in court? He is the George Washington of USAPA. If the union is "so" good to it's pilots on both side of the Mississippi, then why didn't he go to Judge Wake's courtroom? Can any East pilot answer those questions....?

 

[Carl S.]

If there was limited time to argue their case, why did USAPA spent so much time on Scully and Skiles, two great parties to the senority intergration? Oh wait, did their Shock and Awe not work?

 

[T2Bus]

Another East Pilot ideas:

Op/Ed Hosted by Unbiased Facts
June 4, 2009

A Path Forward



By Guest Writer Tory Vaughan


To all,

Two years ago I heard about a group of pilots trying to stand up for what
they believed to be right and so I listened to what they had to say. They told
me that Date of Hire was the correct way to merge two airlines pilot
seniority lists and, at first, because I care about my fellow pilots, I supported
their efforts. However, after considering all involved I realized regardless of
how much one wants to support one's friends and fellow pilots that there was
more to consider. What kept bothering my soul was the fact that there was
an agreed-to process between the pilots of America West and US Airways.
Both sides knew that going into arbitration there was a chance they may lose
everything they sought. The time to discuss that process and what is the right
and wrong ways to merge seniority list was before the process began. Once
the process started it is time to honor one's agreements. The law of the
United States backs up these agreements made and I believe unless USAPA
can secede from the United States and appoint Lee Seham Attorney General,
USAPA will lose and fail its' members. In my opinion what is going to be
the largest problem for our pilot group in the future is that if USAPA
continues on its' present course, the pilot group is going to become even
more polarized than it is now. This will lead to an all out civil war and
USAPA will be forced into a corner. This will find USAPA in a situation to
call for a job action leading to a bad scenario for all pilots here.

The best solution in my opinion is to now negotiate a better contract for
ALL US Airways pilots. Items such as a new pay scale that gives credit for
years of service, a better reserve system that isn't the slave system that we
have now, more vacation days, and an improved retirement plan will
improve the quality of life for ALL US Airways pilots. USAPA must change
course if there is to be a successful outcome to our present situation.
Therefore, it is time for the pilots of US Airways to acknowledge
the truth that the law is going to back up the Nicolau award and demand a
change of course in USAPA strategy, or change CBA's.

It is time to realize that the courts don't (and can’t) care about what any
individual pilot feels is fair. The truth is there was an agreed - to process
before the seniority arbitration began and that is what is going to kill the
USAPA strategy in court. Short of seceding from the United States,
USAPA's present strategy will fail.

Respectfully submitted,
Tory Vaughan
























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[MCDU]

This coming from a 767 capt Tory Vaughan the III,who was not effected by the Nic award. Sen. number 586. He is a complete idiot. This is of no surprise. He wants more money and he loves the fact that he can still fly past 60. Greed. Pilot Greed.

USAPA has protected many East pilots from the street. With the Nic all furloughed pilots would be East with a 100% paycut and many East pilots would be flying the 190, while West pilots would be replacing East Jobs in East bases. Not having the Nic award implemented has saved many USAIR pilots their jobs in their bases and aircraft.

It has not been all bad for the lower part of USAIRS seniority list. Nic implemented would be devasting for the USAIR East F/O's. The Nic award places furloughed West pilots DOH 2005 ahead of 1988 East widebody postions and airbus line holders and 190 captains. This fence has been good for the F/O at the East operations. The longer they can create an artifical fence, the better of many will be until the retirements kick in in 3 plus years.

Too bad AWA did not merge with the growing airline Skybus a few years ago. Many planes on order and fast upgrades. Kind of like AWA after 9/11. Would have been a perfect fit, since AWA always wanted CMH and AWA pilots do no care about longevity.

Integrity=DOH
DOH= Workings of a real Union

M

 

[FDJ2]

USAPA has protected many East pilots from the street. With the Nic all furloughed pilots would be East with a 100% paycut and many East pilots would be flying the 190, while West pilots would be replacing East Jobs in East bases. /QUOTE]


I thought it was USAPA's job to protect ALL the USAirways pilots jobs, not the East's at the expense of the West.

The Nicolau award will be implemented. The wheels of justice are in motion, it's just a matter of time and how much damages the east pilots will ultimately be forced to pay the west pilots for failing to honor their agreements.

 

[MCDU]

How many West pilots are in good standing? They have no rights if Westies are a non union members in bad standing.

I guess its ok to furlough all east pilots, even though west jobs are being shed? East and West pilots have been furloughed. West wants a windfall where all furloughs are East.

M