Usairways no more profit sharing?

[B-atch]

Speaking as an attorney, you are 100% in error with this statement.

I think I have a BULGING disk. Can I have your #?

 

[Metrojet]

Just another avenue to attempt to evade a final and binding list. Here are some questions you might want to ponder:

1. If there are more than two lists, who will "represent" the former AWA pilots?
2. If there are more than two lists and we have all been paying dues, would there not be ANOTHER DFR lawsuit as a result?
3. If there are more than two lists, then what list do the people that were hired AFTER the AAA pilots all returned to the new US Airways going to be called?
4. Hey, while were at it let's re-order the Piedmont, Empire, TWA, Reno Air and Air Cal? I say we just go by date of birth! The chance of that is just south of using 3 (or more) lists.

It is a FACT that the Nicolau seniority list is the ONLY seniority list sitting on Parker's desk. Presently IF a contract is negotiated without the Nicolau list, both LCC and USAPA will be co-defendants in another DFR lawsuit (this the question in front of Judge Silver right now). Here's a few more questions:

1. Have you read ANY of the transcripts regarding the declaratory action? Have you read how the judge has been addressing the company? Have you read how the judge is addressing the USAPA legal team? Have you read the LATEST filings from the company attorney (Hint, they mirror Leonidas' position).

Each LCC pilot has lost at least $100,000- $250,000 in income, time off, vacation, and other contract improvements. Some of the more senior pilots are closer to $750,000.00. All for NOTHING. Never to be seen or regained for the fools errand referred to as DOH.


The latest east bid are EMB 190 captains (mostly). JBLU makes $142 and hour for while our EMB190 captains are BELOW $100.00 an hour. Winning! USAPA.....the Charlie Sheen of the airline unions!

So - if that is the question sitting in front of Judge Silver - why is it taking so long for the judge to decide? I thought this case was going to be fast tracked = hat happened to delay a decision - could it be the judge is waiting to see what happens to this merger option?

 

[charlie2]

Parker or Kirby (can't remember which one) addressed this in one of the last crew news sessions. The term sheet has pay protection in it for displacement. So they will be paying 172/hr , as in your example, to MD80 pilots displaced and flying the E Jet

I hope that is true but I don't remember seeing that in the term sheet.

 

[Bringupthebird]

So - if that is the question sitting in front of Judge Silver - why is it taking so long for the judge to decide? I thought this case was going to be fast tracked = hat happened to delay a decision - could it be the judge is waiting to see what happens to this merger option?

Because the judge (and all judges for that matter) prefer to rule on actualities rather than possibilities. If the pilots for US want to continue to allow USAPA to take their money and do nothing, the court won't stop them. If the pilots want to dump USAPA and gain some sort of leverage to help decide their fate, then they will. Who cares if NIC is the list if no one compels it to be used? Bring back ALPA (as personally distatsteful as that would be) and you would have both MECS merged and Moak's signature on the JCBA and enough resources to have a half a chance with the APA. All in less than a week, regardless of hew and cry.

But more likely than not, they will sit on their lazy collective butts and let someone else do all the hard work and then complain about how poorly they were treated and how much they sacrificed, blah, blah, blah.

 

[cactusboy53]

So - if that is the question sitting in front of Judge Silver - why is it taking so long for the judge to decide? I thought this case was going to be fast tracked = hat happened to delay a decision - could it be the judge is waiting to see what happens to this merger option?

I think that this case is low on the priority list for what is on Judge Silver's docket. That coupled with the fact that she took over the lead jurist's role (after Judge Roll was killed during the AZ shootings in Jan. 2011). There were also a couple empty judge seats at that time (if I recall correctly).

The wheels of justice turn, albiet very slowly sometimes.

 

[charlie2]

Because the judge (and all judges for that matter) prefer to rule on actualities rather than possibilities. If the pilots for US want to continue to allow USAPA to take their money and do nothing, the court won't stop them. If the pilots want to dump USAPA and gain some sort of leverage to help decide their fate, then they will. Who cares if NIC is the list if no one compels it to be used? Bring back ALPA (as personally distatsteful as that would be) and you would have both MECS merged and Moak's signature on the JCBA and enough resources to have a half a chance with the APA. All in less than a week, regardless of hew and cry.

But more likely than not, they will sit on their lazy collective butts and let someone else do all the hard work and then complain about how poorly they were treated and how much they sacrificed, blah, blah, blah.

Hi Birdie! ALPA? You mean the same union that United has? Are you kidding...you want the same union that UAL has? I'm not the smartest guy in the world but I would take any other union than the one UAL has. So when you say "some sort of leverage" you're saying that you don't know how to gain it or what it really is. The two west pilots on the NAC that I was chatting with last week are sharp and working hard for us and they both admit that the "leverage" thing is a challange because of the law (RLA) and the current political climate. Ya ya ya we could have had a crappy contract years ago but that would have put your two month guy a head of of our 16.4 year guy. I don't understand why you don't understand that we were not going to let that happen and we didn't let that happen and we will continue to try to not let that happen. USAPA may be a really good example of a bad example but our ALPA wasn't any better.

 

[Carl S.]

If we are to move forward off LOA 93 and C2004, those 16.4 and two month pilots will be next to each other on a combined list. You can stall all you want and rag on ALPA, but it is a matter of when, not if the NIC. will go into effect. USAPA is always looking for the second bite of the apple, but it will never come into reality.

 

[captairbusbb]

So much for trying to ask a question...tks easthole and westicle...can t you start your own poo slinging thread instead of hijacking mine?

Oly.....you can only blame yourself!!...You started a thread that opened a "pandora's box!!

East and West will always be on opposing sides...Starting a thread and not expecting to get mixed reaction is at poster's peril.

If you have conclusive evidence without negative conjecture, all power to you.......I think you started this thread as "flame bait"...You got exactly what you asked for!!

Sorry to be the one who pee'd in your cheerios!!

Captairbusbb!!

 

[captairbusbb]

Don't you need profit to do that?

Read the financial results of 2nd quarter much??

 

[Hpilot]

Read the financial results of 2nd quarter much??

Ha, ha! Maybe you should give the poor dolt a link.

 

[charlie2]

If we are to move forward off LOA 93 and C2004, those 16.4 and two month pilots will be next to each other on a combined list. You can stall all you want and rag on ALPA, but it is a matter of when, not if the NIC. will go into effect. USAPA is always looking for the second bite of the apple, but it will never come into reality.

Hi Carl! You gotta admit one thing though, we stall pretty well. Your nic was what six years ago? When your judge silver rules that the nic is the nic is she gonna make me vote yes on a contract? NOPE judgy girl can not do that I have the RLA on my side and even judgy girl can't change that law only congress can so call your US reps. The nic will happen in about 5 years unless we merge and then the nic will be ....uh...

 

[ultrarunner]

Can you guys and gals get your Shiite together. The average pilot must have lost a boat load of money during the USAPA thingy.

re

I'm sure they've run the numbers, but haven't posted them. Heck, i'd have run the numbers...

Think about it...

Day of AWA/USAir merger, then the arbitration, then a CBA a year after that...

That's about, what, 9 YEARS ago....

Yeah, I'm sure USAPA is much better off...

Good for them....you show 'em!

 

[olympus593]

Hi Carl! You gotta admit one thing though, we stall pretty well. Your nic was what six years ago? When your judge silver rules that the nic is the nic is she gonna make me vote yes on a contract? NOPE judgy girl can not do that I have the RLA on my side and even judgy girl can't change that law only congress can so call your US reps. The nic will happen in about 5 years unless we merge and then the nic will be ....uh...

As an East guy (3rd list) that why I would vote alpa back, as show above usapa is only to represent the east not the west or the 3rd list. Thks for making my point.

 

[olympus593]

Can the 3rd lister file a dfr?

 

[charlie2]

As an East guy (3rd list) that why I would vote alpa back, as show above usapa is only to represent the east not the west or the 3rd list. Thks for making my point.

We'll all be APA soon.

 

[Superbird]

We'll all be APA soon.

Maybe so, but the stench of USAPA that East pilots love, will follow them forever...

 

[Bringupthebird]

Hi Birdie! ALPA? You mean the same union that United has? Are you kidding...you want the same union that UAL has? I'm not the smartest guy in the world but I would take any other union than the one UAL has. So when you say "some sort of leverage" you're saying that you don't know how to gain it or what it really is. The two west pilots on the NAC that I was chatting with last week are sharp and working hard for us and they both admit that the "leverage" thing is a challange because of the law (RLA) and the current political climate. Ya ya ya we could have had a crappy contract years ago but that would have put your two month guy a head of of our 16.4 year guy. I don't understand why you don't understand that we were not going to let that happen and we didn't let that happen and we will continue to try to not let that happen. USAPA may be a really good example of a bad example but our ALPA wasn't any better.

ALPA got you the only benefits of a career with US you will ever see. The US pilots are the ones that brought on the pension give-away, not ALPA. ALL USAPA has proven is that the US east pilots are incapable of thinking and acting in their own best interests and require a nanny to protect them from themselves.

"Current political climate"? What country are you living in? We have the closest thing to a socialist we'll likely see in our lifetimes occupying the White House courtesy of Big Labor and you think the "current political climate" is against the pilots?

Try again. Go back to the Table of Contents in your Big Book of Boogymen and look for another one. Stop when you get to Bradford. He's the one that dreamed this fiasco up.

 

[DCAA320]

As an East guy (3rd list) that why I would vote alpa back, as show above usapa is only to represent the east not the west or the 3rd list. Thks for making my point.

Dude, go retake that ESL class.

USAPA does suck.

 

[charlie2]

ALPA got you the only benefits of a career with US you will ever see. The US pilots are the ones that brought on the pension give-away, not ALPA. ALL USAPA has proven is that the US east pilots are incapable of thinking and acting in their own best interests and require a nanny to protect them from themselves.

"Current political climate"? What country are you living in? We have the closest thing to a socialist we'll likely see in our lifetimes occupying the White House courtesy of Big Labor and you think the "current political climate" is against the pilots?

Try again. Go back to the Table of Contents in your Big Book of Boogymen and look for another one. Stop when you get to Bradford. He's the one that dreamed this fiasco up.

So you still wont tell us what that "some sort of leverage" is, why? I think it's because you have no idea what you're talking about but go ahead and keep repeating "leverage". It was the two west pilots at the NAC road show that told me that "leverage" was going to be a challange. You do know we have three branches of government don't you and that the republican controlled house wields a little bit of influence and they are less likely to support unions than the dems..don't you?

 

[charlie2]

Dude, go retake that ESL class.

USAPA does suck.

Don't be mean to my brother and you are right USAPA sucks as much as ALPA.

 

[charlie2]

Maybe so, but the stench of USAPA that East pilots love, will follow them forever...

I had to use a lot of Fabreeze to get the stench of ALPA off us so APA can borrow it to get the stench of USAPA away. It works really well.

 

[DCAA320]

Don't be mean to my brother and you are right USAPA sucks as much as ALPA.

I was just teasing him a little. Welcome to Airways Mr. Olympus.

He probably posted after a few beers, which is something I have never done

Did I mention USAPA sux.

 

[charlie2]

I was just teasing him a little. Welcome to Airways Mr. Olympus.

I agree..hey I'm blue...

He probably posted after a few beers, which is something I have never done

Did I mention USAPA sux.

Blue.

 

[Bringupthebird]

So you still wont tell us what that "some sort of leverage" is, why? I think it's because you have no idea what you're talking about but go ahead and keep repeating "leverage". It was the two west pilots at the NAC road show that told me that "leverage" was going to be a challange. You do know we have three branches of government don't you and that the republican controlled house wields a little bit of influence and they are less likely to support unions than the dems..don't you?

The NMB is the office that has the most direct control over union activity in the airline industry and it is controlled by the president. Go read up on how the RLA works.

Oh, yeah, your buds said they didn't need the support of the west, hence your lack of knowledge about leverage. I understand now.

Your future is tied to the generousity of Doug Parker and the BOD, so you needn't bother with all that unoin stuff anyhow. Leverage smeverage, or something like that.

Sheesh!

 

[Mamma]

Hi Carl! You gotta admit one thing though, we stall pretty well. Your nic was what six years ago? When your judge silver rules that the nic is the nic is she gonna make me vote yes on a contract? NOPE judgy girl can not do that I have the RLA on my side and even judgy girl can't change that law only congress can so call your US reps. The nic will happen in about 5 years unless we merge and then the nic will be ....uh...

You stall pretty well??? How about, you stall. Period. US Air's pitiful FO rates and airbus captain wage of $124/hr is an anchor hanging around the necks of everyone else in the industry except Delta and SWA. I feel your anguish concerning the Nicolau award, but if I was a 16.5 yr FO I would get over being next to a 2 monther if it meant a lot more cash in my pocket. That's what it all boils down to in the end. Your airbus captains are losing $60K a year trying to "stall" an inevitable decision. That's $360,000 so far! It sounds insane.

 

[Crzipilot]

Parker or Kirby (can't remember which one) addressed this in one of the last crew news sessions. The term sheet has pay protection in it for displacement. So they will be paying 172/hr , as in your example, to MD80 pilots displaced and flying the E Jet

Sure the term sheet has that pay protection item in there, BUT if you read the sheet I was reading it also states. The APA will produce 12million/year ADDITIONAL cost savings, for each year of pay protection that is provided. Sooooo there is pay protection, but in essence, the PILOTS are paying for that pay protection. Term sheet has a bunch of those ...."additional cost savings" little things in there...

 

[Crzipilot]

I'm a prior airline pilot that left the industry, earned a JD from Georgetown and doing quite well now thank you. I do like to come back once in awhile to see all the fun I have been missing and interact with dolts such as yourself.

Let me guess. You're one of those tired old worn out looking hunchbacked white haired USAPIAN's walking around with your urine yellow USAPA lanyards.

Left the industry = jumped regional to regional while daddy promised her a position at UPS that didn't pan out, hence he bought her a law degree......

 

[flygirlqt]

Another brain dead USAPIAN

Left the industry = jumped regional to regional while daddy promised her a position at UPS that didn't pan out, hence he bought her a law degree......

You've thrown that diatribe my way before and again, as I told you once before, you are wrong on all accounts (typical USAPA tactics).

No regional to regional. My "Daddy", was a rEAL pilot and had nothing to do with UPS so that mushroom fueled fantasy of yours is from left field. It would have been nice for him to "buy" my degree but he died before I went to school. I did however earn one which seems to irritate you.

You East pilots truly are comical. Your day of reckoning will be very soon one way or another.

 

[dollacrackho]

If I left flying and went and got my law degree from Georgetown I would never click on flight info again. Ever.
What's the point?

 

[charlie2]

The NMB is the office that has the most direct control over union activity in the airline industry and it is controlled by the president. Go read up on how the RLA works.

Oh, yeah, your buds said they didn't need the support of the west, hence your lack of knowledge about leverage. I understand now.

Your future is tied to the generousity of Doug Parker and the BOD, so you needn't bother with all that unoin stuff anyhow. Leverage smeverage, or something like that.

Sheesh!

So Birdie we agree that even with a dem in the white house we are screwed. You still wont tell us about how to get leverage? Why would withhold that information? Why?