Usairways no more profit sharing?

[charlie2]

Just another avenue to attempt to evade a final and binding list. Here are some questions you might want to ponder:

1. If there are more than two lists, who will "represent" the former AWA pilots?
2. If there are more than two lists and we have all been paying dues, would there not be ANOTHER DFR lawsuit as a result?
3. If there are more than two lists, then what list do the people that were hired AFTER the AAA pilots all returned to the new US Airways going to be called?
4. Hey, while were at it let's re-order the Piedmont, Empire, TWA, Reno Air and Air Cal? I say we just go by date of birth! The chance of that is just south of using 3 (or more) lists.

It is a FACT that the Nicolau seniority list is the ONLY seniority list sitting on Parker's desk. Presently IF a contract is negotiated without the Nicolau list, both LCC and USAPA will be co-defendants in another DFR lawsuit (this the question in front of Judge Silver right now). Here's a few more questions:

1. Have you read ANY of the transcripts regarding the declaratory action? Have you read how the judge has been addressing the company? Have you read how the judge is addressing the USAPA legal team? Have you read the LATEST filings from the company attorney (Hint, they mirror Leonidas' position).

Each LCC pilot has lost at least $100,000- $250,000 in income, time off, vacation, and other contract improvements. Some of the more senior pilots are closer to $750,000.00. All for NOTHING. Never to be seen or regained for the fools errand referred to as DOH.


The latest east bid are EMB 190 captains (mostly). JBLU makes $142 and hour for while our EMB190 captains are BELOW $100.00 an hour. Winning! USAPA.....the Charlie Sheen of the airline unions!

Hi CB! You do bring very valid points here and you may very well prevail which means I will be your low paid E jet FO until I die cause he will close PHX if we merge with AA. The reason I say E jet is because that "Term Sheet" will allow Parker (your CEO) to park (maybe that's why his name is parker) all old MD80 ($172/hour per "term Sheet") jets and replace them with E195's (almost the same size) at $116 an hour (per term sheet)...your CEO is a genious God I wish I was in management.

Dumb it down a little for me CB. The TA between US Airways and AWA says that the seniority list becomes effective at the ratification of a contract between the two parties doesn't it? When the dust settles I hope I get to meet you and as your FO I will buy you a beer.

 

[charlie2]

So, the arbitrators for the US/AA SLI will just ignore the Nic?

Don't know. The nic only is a list when US airways pilots and AWA pilots ratify a contract which is spelled out in our transition agreement so if we never ratify a contract what is it then?

 

[weasel_lips]

Speaking as an attorney, you are 100% in error with this statement.

Apparently not a very successful one. A real attorney with a practice would not troll FI.COM telling everyone they are a lawyer and giving out "legal advice" that no one is asking for or cares about.

 

[flygirlqt]

Apparently not a very successful one. A real attorney with a practice would not troll FI.COM telling everyone they are a lawyer and giving out "legal advice" that no one is asking for or cares about.

I'm a prior airline pilot that left the industry, earned a JD from Georgetown and doing quite well now thank you. I do like to come back once in awhile to see all the fun I have been missing and interact with dolts such as yourself.

Let me guess. You're one of those tired old worn out looking hunchbacked white haired USAPIAN's walking around with your urine yellow USAPA lanyards.

 

[cactusboy53]

Hi CB! You do bring very valid points here and you may very well prevail which means I will be your low paid E jet FO until I die cause he will close PHX if we merge with AA. The reason I say E jet is because that "Term Sheet" will allow Parker (your CEO) to park (maybe that's why his name is parker) all old MD80 ($172/hour per "term Sheet") jets and replace them with E195's (almost the same size) at $116 an hour (per term sheet)...your CEO is a genious God I wish I was in management.

Dumb it down a little for me CB. The TA between US Airways and AWA says that the seniority list becomes effective at the ratification of a contract between the two parties doesn't it? When the dust settles I hope I get to meet you and as your FO I will buy you a beer.

It is my hope that we can both be sitting in operations getting paperwork w/ 4 stripes each. I too am concerned about replacing the MD80's w/ Embraer fleet (as long as pay is @ the $116/hr). The fact is the term sheet was negotiated between APA & LCC before the Delta TA & the AMR/APA TA. The CEO's are measuring appendages to see who is longer.

We (LCC pilots) should use these events by convincing our AA counter-parts & APA to re-visit the tenets of the term sheet (look at the DA rates, look at the JBLU E190 rates, revisit the time to mature - perhaps 3 years vs. 6). If LCC wants this done ASAP, perhaps he should offer the term sheet rates and the current AWA contract. DONE. No fuss, no muss, not more than a few days of negotiations vs. MONTHS (including the affiliated expenses of time, travel, lodging, meals, etc.). IMHO.

I think there is more pie available. It's just out of sight. Doug's job is to get us (all) for the least amount of $$. Our job (APA & USAPA) is to get as much $$ from Doug possible.

With regard to our situation, you are correct. A TA must be "ratified" to apply the awaiting seniority list. If I were a betting man, I would say that the end result of LCC & APA (the New AA TA) will be proffered to our entire group (perhaps right about the same time they apply for single carrier status). The statement will be something like: Here it is kids, take it or leave it. There are other ways this could go down. Wish I had my new crystal ball!

BTW: BPR meeting Mon-Wed this week. Drop by if you are in town (this invitation is for everyone).

 

[Turtle21]

I'm a prior airline pilot that left the industry, earned a JD from Georgetown and doing quite well now thank you. I do like to come back once in awhile to see all the fun I have been missing and interact with dolts such as yourself.

Let me guess. You're one of those tired old worn out looking hunchbacked white haired USAPIAN's walking around with your urine yellow USAPA lanyards.

Listen carefully so you can hear the sirens outside. Don't feel bad, there is nothing demeaning about chasing ambulances. :lol:

 

[flygirlqt]

Listen carefully so you can hear the sirens outside. Don't feel bad, there is nothing demeaning about chasing ambulances. :lol:

Now that was funny.

I have a relative that is a "Westicle" so I have been reading up on the cases and following this saga.

 

[charlie2]

It is my hope that we can both be sitting in operations getting paperwork w/ 4 stripes each. I too am concerned about replacing the MD80's w/ Embraer fleet (as long as pay is @ the $116/hr). The fact is the term sheet was negotiated between APA & LCC before the Delta TA & the AMR/APA TA. The CEO's are measuring appendages to see who is longer.

We (LCC pilots) should use these events by convincing our AA counter-parts & APA to re-visit the tenets of the term sheet (look at the DA rates, look at the JBLU E190 rates, revisit the time to mature - perhaps 3 years vs. 6). If LCC wants this done ASAP, perhaps he should offer the term sheet rates and the current AWA contract. DONE. No fuss, no muss, not more than a few days of negotiations vs. MONTHS (including the affiliated expenses of time, travel, lodging, meals, etc.). IMHO.

I think there is more pie available. It's just out of sight. Doug's job is to get us (all) for the least amount of $$. Our job (APA & USAPA) is to get as much $$ from Doug possible.

With regard to our situation, you are correct. A TA must be "ratified" to apply the awaiting seniority list. If I were a betting man, I would say that the end result of LCC & APA (the New AA TA) will be proffered to our entire group (perhaps right about the same time they apply for single carrier status). The statement will be something like: Here it is kids, take it or leave it. There are other ways this could go down. Wish I had my new crystal ball!

BTW: BPR meeting Mon-Wed this week. Drop by if you are in town (this invitation is for everyone).

Hi CB this is scary because I agree with you.

 

[charlie2]

It is my hope that we can both be sitting in operations getting paperwork w/ 4 stripes each. I too am concerned about replacing the MD80's w/ Embraer fleet (as long as pay is @ the $116/hr). The fact is the term sheet was negotiated between APA & LCC before the Delta TA & the AMR/APA TA. The CEO's are measuring appendages to see who is longer.

We (LCC pilots) should use these events by convincing our AA counter-parts & APA to re-visit the tenets of the term sheet (look at the DA rates, look at the JBLU E190 rates, revisit the time to mature - perhaps 3 years vs. 6). If LCC wants this done ASAP, perhaps he should offer the term sheet rates and the current AWA contract. DONE. No fuss, no muss, not more than a few days of negotiations vs. MONTHS (including the affiliated expenses of time, travel, lodging, meals, etc.). IMHO.

I think there is more pie available. It's just out of sight. Doug's job is to get us (all) for the least amount of $$. Our job (APA & USAPA) is to get as much $$ from Doug possible.

With regard to our situation, you are correct. A TA must be "ratified" to apply the awaiting seniority list. If I were a betting man, I would say that the end result of LCC & APA (the New AA TA) will be proffered to our entire group (perhaps right about the same time they apply for single carrier status). The statement will be something like: Here it is kids, take it or leave it. There are other ways this could go down. Wish I had my new crystal ball!

BTW: BPR meeting Mon-Wed this week. Drop by if you are in town (this invitation is for everyone).

Went to the NAC road show last week and west pilots K.H. and R.C. were very sharp and informative. I know and they admit we don't have a lot of teeth on this term sheet but they are working hard to find some sort of leverage.

 

[abefly]

Hi CB! You do bring very valid points here and you may very well prevail which means I will be your low paid E jet FO until I die cause he will close PHX if we merge with AA. The reason I say E jet is because that "Term Sheet" will allow Parker (your CEO) to park (maybe that's why his name is parker) all old MD80 ($172/hour per "term Sheet") jets and replace them with E195's (almost the same size) at $116 an hour (per term sheet)...your CEO is a genious God I wish I was in management.

Dumb it down a little for me CB. The TA between US Airways and AWA says that the seniority list becomes effective at the ratification of a contract between the two parties doesn't it? When the dust settles I hope I get to meet you and as your FO I will buy you a beer.

Parker or Kirby (can't remember which one) addressed this in one of the last crew news sessions. The term sheet has pay protection in it for displacement. So they will be paying 172/hr , as in your example, to MD80 pilots displaced and flying the E Jet

 

[B-atch]

Speaking as an attorney, you are 100% in error with this statement.

I think I have a BULGING disk. Can I have your #?

 

[Metrojet]

Just another avenue to attempt to evade a final and binding list. Here are some questions you might want to ponder:

1. If there are more than two lists, who will "represent" the former AWA pilots?
2. If there are more than two lists and we have all been paying dues, would there not be ANOTHER DFR lawsuit as a result?
3. If there are more than two lists, then what list do the people that were hired AFTER the AAA pilots all returned to the new US Airways going to be called?
4. Hey, while were at it let's re-order the Piedmont, Empire, TWA, Reno Air and Air Cal? I say we just go by date of birth! The chance of that is just south of using 3 (or more) lists.

It is a FACT that the Nicolau seniority list is the ONLY seniority list sitting on Parker's desk. Presently IF a contract is negotiated without the Nicolau list, both LCC and USAPA will be co-defendants in another DFR lawsuit (this the question in front of Judge Silver right now). Here's a few more questions:

1. Have you read ANY of the transcripts regarding the declaratory action? Have you read how the judge has been addressing the company? Have you read how the judge is addressing the USAPA legal team? Have you read the LATEST filings from the company attorney (Hint, they mirror Leonidas' position).

Each LCC pilot has lost at least $100,000- $250,000 in income, time off, vacation, and other contract improvements. Some of the more senior pilots are closer to $750,000.00. All for NOTHING. Never to be seen or regained for the fools errand referred to as DOH.


The latest east bid are EMB 190 captains (mostly). JBLU makes $142 and hour for while our EMB190 captains are BELOW $100.00 an hour. Winning! USAPA.....the Charlie Sheen of the airline unions!

So - if that is the question sitting in front of Judge Silver - why is it taking so long for the judge to decide? I thought this case was going to be fast tracked = hat happened to delay a decision - could it be the judge is waiting to see what happens to this merger option?

 

[charlie2]

Parker or Kirby (can't remember which one) addressed this in one of the last crew news sessions. The term sheet has pay protection in it for displacement. So they will be paying 172/hr , as in your example, to MD80 pilots displaced and flying the E Jet

I hope that is true but I don't remember seeing that in the term sheet.

 

[Bringupthebird]

So - if that is the question sitting in front of Judge Silver - why is it taking so long for the judge to decide? I thought this case was going to be fast tracked = hat happened to delay a decision - could it be the judge is waiting to see what happens to this merger option?

Because the judge (and all judges for that matter) prefer to rule on actualities rather than possibilities. If the pilots for US want to continue to allow USAPA to take their money and do nothing, the court won't stop them. If the pilots want to dump USAPA and gain some sort of leverage to help decide their fate, then they will. Who cares if NIC is the list if no one compels it to be used? Bring back ALPA (as personally distatsteful as that would be) and you would have both MECS merged and Moak's signature on the JCBA and enough resources to have a half a chance with the APA. All in less than a week, regardless of hew and cry.

But more likely than not, they will sit on their lazy collective butts and let someone else do all the hard work and then complain about how poorly they were treated and how much they sacrificed, blah, blah, blah.

 

[cactusboy53]

So - if that is the question sitting in front of Judge Silver - why is it taking so long for the judge to decide? I thought this case was going to be fast tracked = hat happened to delay a decision - could it be the judge is waiting to see what happens to this merger option?

I think that this case is low on the priority list for what is on Judge Silver's docket. That coupled with the fact that she took over the lead jurist's role (after Judge Roll was killed during the AZ shootings in Jan. 2011). There were also a couple empty judge seats at that time (if I recall correctly).

The wheels of justice turn, albiet very slowly sometimes.

 

[charlie2]

Because the judge (and all judges for that matter) prefer to rule on actualities rather than possibilities. If the pilots for US want to continue to allow USAPA to take their money and do nothing, the court won't stop them. If the pilots want to dump USAPA and gain some sort of leverage to help decide their fate, then they will. Who cares if NIC is the list if no one compels it to be used? Bring back ALPA (as personally distatsteful as that would be) and you would have both MECS merged and Moak's signature on the JCBA and enough resources to have a half a chance with the APA. All in less than a week, regardless of hew and cry.

But more likely than not, they will sit on their lazy collective butts and let someone else do all the hard work and then complain about how poorly they were treated and how much they sacrificed, blah, blah, blah.

Hi Birdie! ALPA? You mean the same union that United has? Are you kidding...you want the same union that UAL has? I'm not the smartest guy in the world but I would take any other union than the one UAL has. So when you say "some sort of leverage" you're saying that you don't know how to gain it or what it really is. The two west pilots on the NAC that I was chatting with last week are sharp and working hard for us and they both admit that the "leverage" thing is a challange because of the law (RLA) and the current political climate. Ya ya ya we could have had a crappy contract years ago but that would have put your two month guy a head of of our 16.4 year guy. I don't understand why you don't understand that we were not going to let that happen and we didn't let that happen and we will continue to try to not let that happen. USAPA may be a really good example of a bad example but our ALPA wasn't any better.

 

[Carl S.]

If we are to move forward off LOA 93 and C2004, those 16.4 and two month pilots will be next to each other on a combined list. You can stall all you want and rag on ALPA, but it is a matter of when, not if the NIC. will go into effect. USAPA is always looking for the second bite of the apple, but it will never come into reality.

 

[captairbusbb]

So much for trying to ask a question...tks easthole and westicle...can t you start your own poo slinging thread instead of hijacking mine?

Oly.....you can only blame yourself!!...You started a thread that opened a "pandora's box!!

East and West will always be on opposing sides...Starting a thread and not expecting to get mixed reaction is at poster's peril.

If you have conclusive evidence without negative conjecture, all power to you.......I think you started this thread as "flame bait"...You got exactly what you asked for!!

Sorry to be the one who pee'd in your cheerios!!

Captairbusbb!!

 

[captairbusbb]

Don't you need profit to do that?

Read the financial results of 2nd quarter much??

 

[Hpilot]

Read the financial results of 2nd quarter much??

Ha, ha! Maybe you should give the poor dolt a link.