USAir's last, final, latest, offer (sign it or liquidate) is out

[big dog1]

USAir's last, final, latest, offer (sign it or liquidate) is out
08/31.

Some details:




Term: Until Jan 2010

35.5% pay reduction

Defined contribution reduced 30%

Dedheads 50% pay no credit

ALPA's percentage of company profit sharing pool 36%

Voluntary leaves to mitigate future furloughs

Pilots may not return from voluntary leave until co. is recalling

Early retirement offered from ages 55-60

Vacation paid at 3:45 per day

Post Jan 05 retirees receive no medical

EMB190s to be flown at MidAtlantic

*CRJ900s to be flown at PSA

Pilots who goes to MidAtlantic and then resigns from MidAtlantic
forfeits his recall to US Airways "mainline"

Pilot must reimburse US Airways for cost of training if he leaves
prior to 24 months. (partial cost at 18 months etc.)

Elimination of crew meals

"fuel burn-off" procedure to accomodate jumpseaters eliminated

 

[Bayoupilot]

Got a source on this?

 

[reepicheep]

The figures are accurate and taken from the US Airways pilots' website.

The outcome of this is that, if you're not one of the hundreds of new furloughees, then as a 19-year pilot you'll make around 58k/year. Go to Kalitta, or Mesa, and in a few years you'll make more.

Here come 'da judge!

 

[I.P. Freley]

35.5% pay reduction

Egads....

 

[LearLove]

The figures are accurate and taken from the US Airways pilots' website.

The outcome of this is that, if you're not one of the hundreds of new furloughees, then as a 19-year pilot you'll make around 58k/year. Go to Kalitta, or Mesa, and in a few years you'll make more.

Here come 'da judge!

reep,

I just looked and didn't see anything. Where is this info on the site? I just see update #2 from AUG 31st.

 

[jobear]

If this is real the bar has been buried not lowered


Jobear

 

[LearLove]

Never mind, I just found it, thats alot of red ink, like everything is crossed out.

 

[IndyGTP]

Unfortunatly it appears that a job as a pilot is going quickly downhill as "just another job." Its costing kids less to become a pilot and paying less as a pilot. Now if these airlines could just all get together at once and raise fares it would make the transition so much easier, rather then choking an airline like Airways or ATA down the drain.

 

[LearLove]

"Its costing kids less to become a pilot"


?????

I was luckey and or unluckey enough to get the govt to pay for my college (about 85%) and ratings (everything except PVT in high school and ATP after college graduation) but I do not see the cost of ratings going down.

 

[miles otoole]

Unfortunatly it appears that a job as a pilot is going quickly downhill as "just another job." Its costing kids less to become a pilot and paying less as a pilot. Now if these airlines could just all get together at once and raise fares it would make the transition so much easier, rather then choking an airline like Airways or ATA down the drain.

Is it me or is this the 463rd iteration of "the industry is going down the tubes?" Why does it take pilots so long to realize this as though things started changing last week? Ticket prices will NOT climb. There will ALWAYS be stiff competition for passengers. There will always be a new airline that can do it cheaper. Sam Walton could have told you this in 1972. Adapt, to include gutting pilot salaries, or die. This reality won't change, even when oil drops and the economy turns around.
We make widgets. Don't want to to it for 60-100K a year? Fine-someone will who's just as qualified. It truly sucks for those who to a degree felt they were "guaranteed" and expected a full pension after working for one company for 30+ years. This, however, is one downside to capitalism.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Is it me or is this the 463rd iteration of "the industry is going down the tubes?" Why does it take pilots so long to realize this as though things started changing last week? Ticket prices will NOT climb. There will ALWAYS be stiff competition for passengers. There will always be a new airline that can do it cheaper. Sam Walton could have told you this in 1972. Adapt, to include gutting pilot salaries, or die. This reality won't change, even when oil drops and the economy turns around.
We make widgets. Don't want to to it for 60-100K a year? Fine-someone will who's just as qualified. It truly sucks for those who to a degree felt they were "guaranteed" and expected a full pension after working for one company for 30+ years. This, however, is one downside to capitalism.

Thank god someone else understands the idea of a free market. There are too many pilots available and not enough jobs and as a result, due to the laws of supply and demand, the value of a pilot has dropped. Unions are one way to temporarily mess with the supply and demand curves and keep wages above equilibrium but in the end you end up in the position that U.S. Air, United, AA, Delta, Continental, and all the other large carriers are in, TROUBLE. The only way out, as painful as it seems, is to get rid of the union's ability to negotiate wages. The initial result would be that pilot wages would plummet. This seems terrible and it would be if you happened to by flying for an airline at the time. However, with the low wages, a lot of people would quit the job, and fewer people would want to become pilots in the first place and as a result, the supply of pilots would drop below the airlines demand until the only way to attract new pilots to the industry would be for the airlines to raise the hourly wage. In the long run, and there's no way to predict how long it would take, pure capitalism may actually result in an increase in pilots wages, at least at the lower end of the spectrum. The top pilots may not top out at such a high wage but the entry level wage would be higher and as a result a pilot would probably make just as much if not more over the course of his or her career. All you union junkies out there are probably cussing out loud at me right now but put a little faith in the fair market and we will find out just how much a pilot is worth under pure capitolism. In the end, the market determines how much people are worth rather than fighting between unions, and management, and many bankruptcies and lost jobs may be saved! Just a little dream I had.

 

[Wasted]

Everything written above regarding the inevitable outcome of a free market in the airline industry is true. However, the root cause of the problems in the airline industry is just that....free market. Airlines had worked fine for decades under regulation, until they were deregulated with a promise of low fares and lots of choices for consumers. Come one, come all, come as you are. Certainly, the consumers won, but everybody else lost, the airline companies and their employees. They all pay the price to make air travel affordable for everybody. The system is drastically unbalanced in favor of consumers and the result is chronic loss for all involved in the industry. One thing about the laws of economics is that public goods, such as armed forces, emergency services, public utilites and public transportation systems, are unsustainable in a free market. Does it make sense to have three different municipal bus companies competing with each other in each city? In the same vein, it never made sense to deregulate the airline industry in the '70s. What we are seeing now is the inevitable result of the deregulation of a public good.

 

[jetstream]

Dirkkdiggler,


You're right about how the free market economy works but there are two sides to the coin.

My theroy all along has been that, if what you predict does in fact happen, the caliber of people who make up the pilot work force will decline. The best and brighest among us are capable of being sucessful in other career fields as well. At some point they will decide it is just not worth it and will leave aviation for greener pastures. Then pilot slots will be filled like other low wage jobs; with people who can't get a better job somewhere else. If it comes to that I will never put my family on an airliner and I suspect others will not either. The flying public expects the people on the flight deck to be educated, professional and highly skilled at what they do. If the airlines want to continue to draw and retain those type of people they must be paid what they are worth!

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Jetstream, you also are correct. I would not send my family on an aircraft if I didn't have condifidence in the flight crew. However, airline safety is regulated through checkrides and recurrent training and the interview process. The FAA sets the standards and they should not be negiotiable (unless they try to make them even more strict to increase safety). A result of this FAA mandated standard level, all the people who are not smart enough to fly an aircraft safely should not get through the system of previously mentioned checkrides, etc. If the airlines cannot get good quality people to fill their seats at the wages they are offering because the really bright people are looking for higher paying jobs, then their only choice would be to raise wages until an acceptable crop of candidates started applying for the open jobs. So I don't think that the wages lowering would attract people who are inadequate to fly aircraft. Airlines would still weed the bad eggs out. On a side note, thanks for the great responses to my post. The last thing I expected was two level headed, well thought out responses. Thought I might have to change my name or address or something!

 

[jetstream]

DirkkDiggler,


For the most part you are correct but I prefer to have someone at the controls who is capable of doing more than just meeting the minimum stardard.

Not that I'm God's gift to aviation or anything but how many of us out there have found ourselves sitting in the cockpit next to someone wondering "how the he** did he get this far"?

 

[jobear]

DirkkDiggler,

Not that I'm God's gift to aviation or anything but how many of us out there have found ourselves sitting in the cockpit next to someone wondering "how the he** did he get this far"?

Everyone I fly with asks that question. I wonder why?

Jobear

 

[miles otoole]

DirkkDiggler,


For the most part you are correct but I prefer to have someone at the controls who is capable of doing more than just meeting the minimum stardard.

Not that I'm God's gift to aviation or anything but how many of us out there have found ourselves sitting in the cockpit next to someone wondering "how the he** did he get this far"?

You must have never flown for ANY regional then. Are you sure you weren't looking in the mirror?

 

[jetstream]

You must have never flown for ANY regional then. Are you sure you weren't looking in the mirror?

Oh well, the intelligent dialog was fun while it lasted.

 

[strega7]

For the most part you are correct but I prefer to have someone at the controls who is capable of doing more than just meeting the minimum stardard.

You know what they call the person who graduates with the lowest GPA and barely made it through medical school?

Doctor.

That is now us.

 

[Redeyes]

"fuel burn-off" procedure to accomodate jumpseaters eliminated

What exactly does this procedure involve??

 

[MW44]

I'm taking a guess here but I think that policy is for times when a plane is planned to be at gross and a jumpseater shows up at the last minute. They still accomodate him/her assuming that an extra couple hundred pounds of fuel will be used before takeoff. Don't qoute me on that though.

 

[Justino]

O no

Ok,

So when, if it does, will US Air go under? Who will pick up the routes? I am newbie and I am trying to understand this industry. So in a nut shell, everyone at US Air must take pay cuts and work more for less? Ouch.

I take it this is a serious bench mark for the rest of the airlines to follow which will result in entire industry lowering the buck.

Thoughts?

 

[CRJDog]

Ok,

So when, if it does, will US Air go under? Who will pick up the routes? I am newbie and I am trying to understand this industry. So in a nut shell, everyone at US Air must take pay cuts and work more for less? Ouch.

I take it this is a serious bench mark for the rest of the airlines to follow which will result in entire industry lowering the buck.

Thoughts?

I think you should fly for recreational purposes and not fly for a living unless you have alot of cash sitting around. Get out while you still can!!!

It's too late for me.

To answer you question about the routes. They would probably be fair game to everyone else like vultures on a dead carcass.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Justino,

Don't listen to anyone who tells you to get out of this business. That is their opinion and I can only suggest to them that perhaps they should quit if they hate it so much. By all means, quit if that is what YOU want to do. However, there are still many pilots who love the job despite all the politics. It is actually possible to distance yourself from all the politics if you choose to do so. I jumpseated on a United 767 a few weeks ago, and the first officer was one of the most positive and upbeat guys I've ever flown with. Despite all the pay cuts, etc. he told me he still loves the job and I thought it was great to hear someone with such a postive attitude. He was like a kid with a new toy. Even though he had flown the aircraft for 5 or 6 years, he was like an excited 10 year old at show and tell showing me all the cool things he liked about the 767. It's kind of refreshing to meet people like that every now and then.

 

[Justino]

Thanks Dirk

I agree! I can't wait to fly for an airline.
I am prepared to work a lot of overtime too get more money, at least I think thats how i could get more money right?

Best
Justino

 

[Bako Cap]

Justino,

As I sit here typing at 2AM with my very awake baby in my lap, I can assure you that being prepared to do overtime as a newbe to make more money doesn't cut it if you want a happy family down the road. I don't have time to work overtime.

Think about it.

 

[WSurf]

CRJDog is right! Use that money that you where gonna spend on educating yourself in a different field. This business is at its lowest point ever, It's cut-throat, back stabbing, and its a race to the bottom on pay rates. It's to the point that its not even a profession anymore, companies treat you like crap. You'll probably never make more than 60k-70k, if you lucky.

Go be a lawyer, Doctor, or anything else. Then buy you a nice shiney C-182 and go fly for fun. You will have a more enjoyable life and family.

 

[Justino]

Well its to late! I have all my licenses and have flown 135 etc... I have the same reasons to fly as you guys did when you first started. I think.

If you can make it, as hard as it is, then I can do it too. I just can't stand working a desk job. I have opportunities to work with the FBI now, but as an Intel analyst. Same with DIA and other gov agencies since I am in grad school for National Security stuff. I was in DC and worked long hours behind a desk doing interesting stuff, but it is not flying. Matter of fact my office was across the street from KDCA-- now that sucked! I have a passion to fly not write Intel reports! I hope you guys and gals understand this. It is a must!



Thank you though for your thoughtful insights and feelings. Good luck with the baby!



Thanks



Justino