USAir March bid

[BenderGonzales]

Gee..Oberstar from Minnesota is opposed to a merger that would negatively impact Northwest. Shocking. I wonder if that is the same reason that he was opposed to the USAir/UAL merger... hmmm

 

[General Lee]

Gee..Oberstar from Minnesota is opposed to a merger that would negatively impact Northwest. Shocking. I wonder if that is the same reason that he was opposed to the USAir/UAL merger... hmmm

You mean he could be in favor of another merger? Maybe one that NWA is involved in? If there was a merger, BOTH parties would have to be involved, not one like USAir is doing, and it would have to make sense, or fit. USAir and AWA had a good merger hub wise. This one stinks. Here again is what Oberstar just said recently about this proposed takeover and what Phillip Baggaley, an analyst said:


1. Oberstar (chairman of the transportations sub committee) said that by publicly exposing the potential dangers of airline consolidation, his committee may be able to "throw cold water" on merger mania. "We can nudge the Justice Department to take the action they must" to prevent a loss in competition, he said.
Oberstar also said opposition to consolidation is bipartisan. "I’ve heard from members on both sides of the aisle" as worries have grown about the impact on jobs and service, he said. "I haven’t heard anyone come forward and say this is a really good deal."




2. Standard & Poor's credit analyst Philip Baggaley says that Delta's proposed reorganization plan involves less risk than US Airways' merger proposal. "[The plan] would not face antitrust review by the Department of Justice, would not involve potentially difficult labor integration, and would not require the issuance of $4 billion in acquisition debt," said Baggaley in a Dec. 19 note. (S&P, like BusinessWeek.com, is owned by The McGraw-Hill Companies.)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Green]

It is very unlikely the takeover will ever happen. Don't get too whipped up about it. The only person who believes it will happen is Parker. His credit has run out (no upping the bid.....), the DOJ would see the immense overlap, and Oberstar stated he doesn't know anyone in Congress that is for this deal. The creditor committee will vote DL's way too. Relax--very unlikely.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Be careful underestimating Parker. Look where AWA was after 9-11. He has a knack for getting things done.

 

[General Lee]

Be careful underestimating Parker. Look where AWA was after 9-11. He has a knack for getting things done.

What did he do after 9-11? All of the LCCs did well after 9-11, because most of the Majors had 400 airplanes flying around with not enough people on board. We lost money because we had more planes that were empty because people were scared to fly. And he merged with USAir.... That was because USAir wanted to be merged, or face liquidation. And, the merger was a good one because there was little overlap, the hubs weren't even close to each other, and the planes were very similar. Can you say any of that for the proposed DL takeover? Nope.

Even the State Attorney Generals are suspicious:


JoAnn Carrin, a spokeswoman for the Florida attorney general's office, said her office is working with other states on such a review, which she described as routine. She did not name the other states or say how many there were.
It's unclear what authority the states would have since airline mergers are generally reviewed by federal regulators. Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, whose state is also reviewing the merger proposal, said the states can't block the merger, but could file suit if it's determined the merger would harm competition. "It smells of a redundant merger that could be anticompetitive, but we won't know until we finish the investigation," Shurtleff said.

US Airways spokesman Phil Gee said Wednesday he was told there could be as many as 11 states that have discussed the issue.




Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ALGFLYR]

I don't believe we will see a stop in the recalls or training. While it is true there will not be a March bid, the last bid has classes running in Jan. and Feb. There will most likely be an April bid and thoses classes should be in March. I think they are a litle backed up and are trying to keep the "gear-up" running smoothly...

 

[Swaayze]

3 new European destinations starting in May should help, no?

 

[Green]

Gotta love the Airways seniority proposal. Of the top 1000 pilots of the new Us Airways 973 of them will be former AAA pilots.....hmmm? Every single AAA fo and over 400 currently furloughed AAA pilots would have to upgrade before any AWA fo would have the chance to sit in the left seat. what a crock...

 

[Bubba Dog]

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[johnnyb]

Gotta love the Airways seniority proposal. Of the top 1000 pilots of the new Us Airways 973 of them will be former AAA pilots.....hmmm? Every single AAA fo and over 400 currently furloughed AAA pilots would have to upgrade before any AWA fo would have the chance to sit in the left seat. what a crock...

Kinda like AWA proposal putting guys with 2 weeks senior to those with 20 years huh?

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

You're right, we should have let them GO OUT OF BUSINESS COMPLETELY and then they could tell all the people in the unemployment line how they WERE an airline pilot for 20 years.

Lame.

 

[MCDU]

USAir was not going out of business. USAir was in better shape then your 1980's startup airline. I had America West Capt. in my new hire class in 1994 and he said that Americas Worst was going to shut down or merged.
Americas Worst is and was a joke. I am just glad you guys merged with AAA. My worst nightmare was when every one speculated United and Americas Worst were going to merge.

Americas Worst=Bottom feeder were the turn over rate was so big, you had classes every week to fill the attrition in the late 90's.

Marty

 

[JetMonkey]

USAir was not going out of business. USAir was in better shape then your 1980's startup airline. I had America West Capt. in my new hire class in 1994 and he said that Americas Worst was going to shut down or merged.
Americas Worst is and was a joke. I am just glad you guys merged with AAA. My worst nightmare was when every one speculated United and Americas Worst were going to merge.

Americas Worst=Bottom feeder were the turn over rate was so big, you had classes every week to fill the attrition in the late 90's.

Marty

Where's that ex AWA capt now? I bet he wishes he'd should've stayed. Most airlines have had troubled past, Continental had a checkered past during the eighties and were 3 days from closing the doors in 91, look at them now. We all work in an industry that has changing dynamics constantly. To say how xyz airline was doing 13 years ago relative to now is a moot point in my opinion. Not to open another can of worms here but, I'm confused however how an airline that was in bankruptcy with literally days of cash left was in "better shape" as you say then one who was profitable, hiring and growing??????

 

[MCDU]

737 Capt ORD

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

You guys need to put down the crack pipe. AWA funded the payroll for USAir so they could stay open long enough to complete the merger. USAir was DONE.

Just like Eastern, Pan Am, Braniff, Midway there was going to be no strong comback for USAir. It was over. Your jobs were saved by a AWA.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Gotta love the Airways seniority proposal. Of the top 1000 pilots of the new Us Airways 973 of them will be former AAA pilots.....hmmm? Every single AAA fo and over 400 currently furloughed AAA pilots would have to upgrade before any AWA fo would have the chance to sit in the left seat. what a crock...

You need to read the East's proposal much more closely before trying to comment on it. Especially the condition's and restrictions portion. In it you will see a minimum number of West Captain positions all the way through June 1, 2014.

What is the significance of that? By the end of 2015 (only 9 years from now) 63% of the active USAirways pilots will be retired. This while a much smaller number of retirements will occur in the West. America West upgrades will occur as they would have all the way through June 1, 2014. Not only will America West pilots be upgrading, many will upgrade far sooner than they would have previously, especially those near the bottom of the list because after 2014 they will have the large number of vacancies in the East available to them as well.

Unfortunately for you the AWA merger committee is woefully unprepared and their initial arguments are weak and ineffective. This while the USAir committee is highly experienced and has put forth a very fair and reasonable proposition with supporting arguments that beat the stupid, "they were going out of business" crap that the AWA merger committee seems to put their entire proposition under. Read the arbitrator's previous rulings to see what I mean. He will not buy the West argument, to him it is immaterial. Yet, your committee is placing almost all of their emphasis on it. All they had to do was a little homework to figure that out, but they couldn't even do that. You need to be really pissed at them, not at USAirways pilots.

Read the East's proposition. I'm not happy with it because it places 659 America West pilots who were hired after me, ahead of me. The restrictions don't last long enough to protect me from the widebody captain positions going to AWA pilots after 2014. AWA pilots hired almost 10 years after me will be ahead of me in the East's proposal. Even with all that said, I would still make Captain in about 2014 because of the great number of retirements ( add five years to that if age 65 passes ).

It is an extremely well thought out and fair proposal for the majority of the pilots on both sides.



Typhoonpilot

 

[Bubba Dog]

You guys need to put down the crack pipe. AWA funded the payroll for USAir so they could stay open long enough to complete the merger. USAir was DONE.

Just like Eastern, Pan Am, Braniff, Midway there was going to be no strong comback for USAir. It was over. Your jobs were saved by a AWA.

Air Wisconsin provided over 100 million required to keep the airline afloat. Mr.Parker was only the pitch man while AAA's CEO produced the necessary financial connections via his extensive financial background to complete the merger.

Be aware of people that try to over simplify things. Do a little research before you start shooting from the hip. That kinda crap only works in bars when everyone has had a few to many.

 

[FR8mastr]

Typhoon,

Good post, I get tired of hearing the West 5 year guy complaining that the 30 year East guy might remain a captain for the last year until he retires.

 

[WSurf]

You guys need to put down the crack pipe. AWA funded the payroll for USAir so they could stay open long enough to complete the merger. USAir was DONE.

Just like Eastern, Pan Am, Braniff, Midway there was going to be no strong comback for USAir. It was over. Your jobs were saved by a AWA.

AWA wasn't setting the world on fire!! I think they both needed each other for survival!

 

[JetMonkey]

You need to read the East's proposal much more closely before trying to comment on it. Especially the condition's and restrictions portion. In it you will see a minimum number of West Captain positions all the way through June 1, 2014.

What is the significance of that? By the end of 2015 (only 9 years from now) 63% of the active USAirways pilots will be retired. This while a much smaller number of retirements will occur in the West. America West upgrades will occur as they would have all the way through June 1, 2014. Not only will America West pilots be upgrading, many will upgrade far sooner than they would have previously, especially those near the bottom of the list because after 2014 they will have the large number of vacancies in the East available to them as well.Typhoonpilot

We were averaging 6 year upgrades before all of this, with your proposal it will now be 10 year upgrades. I don't know too many people wanting to pack it up and move out east just for an upgrade either.

Unfortunately for you the AWA merger committee is woefully unprepared and their initial arguments are weak and ineffective. This while the USAir committee is highly experienced and has put forth a very fair and reasonable proposition with supporting arguments that beat the stupid, "they were going out of business" crap that the AWA merger committee seems to put their entire proposition under. Read the arbitrator's previous rulings to see what I mean. He will not buy the West argument, to him it is immaterial. Yet, your committee is placing almost all of their emphasis on it. All they had to do was a little homework to figure that out, but they couldn't even do that. You need to be really pissed at them, not at USAirways pilots.Typhoonpilot

You call it weak and ineffective, I call it career expectations per the ALPA merger policy.

Read the East's proposition. I'm not happy with it because it places 659 America West pilots who were hired after me, ahead of me. The restrictions don't last long enough to protect me from the widebody captain positions going to AWA pilots after 2014. AWA pilots hired almost 10 years after me will be ahead of me in the East's proposal. Even with all that said, I would still make Captain in about 2014 because of the great number of retirements ( add five years to that if age 65 passes ).Typhoonpilot

If it passes you can probabally add to that upgrade timeline,

It is an extremely well thought out and fair proposal for the majority of the pilots on both sides.Typhoonpilot

That is yet to be decided. It's well thought out for the east, but it puts the west pilots and their families in a more precarious posistion. That to me is no reward for the RISK we took hooking up to a company with an imminant demise.

 

[BeCareful!]

We were averaging 6 year upgrades before all of this, with your proposal it will now be 10 year upgrades. .

Please, cry every pilot in the whole Untied States a river over that one. What about the fact that your career will now include, as if my magic, a wide body captain position flying Transatlantic?

That is yet to be decided. It's well thought out for the east, but it puts the west pilots and their families in a more precarious position. That to me is no reward for the RISK we took hooking up to a company with an imminent demise.

This sort of "USA Today" financial analysis of US Air's "imminent demise" is why I'm so over posting here or hoping for any meaningful discussion over this issue. Unlike previous management, I don't recall Bruce Lakefield ever telling anyone that "there is no plan B." The Retirement Systems of Alabama were never going to let this airline die, and AWA was not the only option. That all you west posters on this forum act like you guys were the only saviors of this huge revenue producer is nothing short of laughable.

Roughly TEN TIMES the revenue is produced in the East system. Every major airline has wanted what US Air has had for years. East coast dominance. Now, only due to the events in 2001, little AWA, po-dunk wannabe major from the low-fare desert city of PHX, had the privilege of merging with us, and, as someone posted, it was done with money largely found by Dr. Bronner and Bruce Lakefield. Doug is a good guy, but he didn't orchestrate all the financials on this one.

Any way you slice it, even if U's proposal gets implemented, AWA gets a huge windfall. Even with U's proposal, I'll be 1000 numbers junior to a guy hired after me at AWA. How is it, exactly, that we are asking too much?