USAir Fires Pilot For Not Removing Hat

[flashpoint]

Again

-If every Airline Pilot out there refused to sign a dispatch release until there were firm, concrete plans for an ID system in place.

With airlines facing immediate bankruptcy .....FIXED .....And probably in about 4 days. Com'mon, this country sent men to moon.... In 1969. No one else has done it since, and it's been close to 30 years.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Listen...to all you people who can't seem to control your anger...read before you speak. Remember "Its better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

I.E. ScRaMJeT and sat74

My point wasn't that I had to remove my hat at ball games (even though I did), but rather I had to remove my AIRLINE ISSUED cap at security points every time. Those emblems we wore on the front of our MESABA caps set off the metal detectors. I didn't like it very much but I did it every day at my JOB with an AIRLINE because I had to.

And by the way ScRaMJeT I graduated from KSU which happens to be the #1 public college in America. So unless you graduated from Stanford, Harvard, Princeton or Yale, I know for a fact that I have a far better education than you and I have flown for an airline and just because I'm on furlough does not mean that I don't know how frustrating it is. I am very qualified to make my comments on this board and unless you can prove other wise without resorting to derisive remarks, I suggest you go on about your life. I hardly doubt you can even though it would prove me wrong.

Sat74....I can bet with a reasonable assurance that I am a much more PROFESSIONAL PILOT then you. I have never made any unprovoked attacks on any person posting on this web site in the manner that you did. You have shown to me and all that read this post that you are an angry, egomaniacal, simpleton. Your inflammatory remarks show little interest in thought and reflect the intellect of a brainwashed colt member that believes the pilot is always right and the rest of the world should bow down before him. Next time you decide to "open your mouth" maybe you should consider the possibility that you may be wrong.

For the rest of the posters on this web page, I'm sorry. I'm just tired of seeing people like these two "pilots" posting redirect with out thought. I’m also tired of their “I’m better than you attitude,” so I felt it was necessary to bring them down a notch. While that is no excuse for what I wrote, maybe my words will hope some to realize how ignorant and immature they are.

 

[LearLove]

KSU_av what ajoke

"And by the way ScRaMJeT I graduated from KSU which happens to be the #1 public college in America. So unless you graduated from Stanford, Harvard, Princeton or Yale, I know for a fact that I have a far better education than you "

Big F'in deal, you went to college. I (and many others) did too. (4.5 years with a summer term to boot, I wanted to get my parents' and the govts. moneys worth)


seriously dude, get a life.

 

[OtterFO]

This is off the subject of this thread.

KSU,

I am under the impression that ScRaMJeT and sat74 are expressing their displeasure and frustration with your continued sweeping all black and white statements. Most of these statements are made with little knowlage of the facts.

I'm glad you are proud of your school. But book learning can only go so far in aviation and life. Your statements and profile indicate a lack of depth and expierance in aviation outside of a structured college enviroment.

Here are some examples:

A 441 with a Dr and his wife on board went down yesterday here in Kansas. I don't know all the details, but I can say there was very likely severe icing.

What do you base your opinion about severe icing on? You state you dont know all the details.

Anyone else hear about this? A Cessna landed on a highway in Florida (I'm not sure what city) with minimal damage to the left wing and no injuries. Does anyone know why it went down? I'm guessing it was an engine failure and the wing damage was caused on the ground, but the leading edge of the wing was the only thing damaged so I'm wondering if it wasn't a bird strike. From the aerial pictures it looked like a 152...but it may have been a 172.

Again, you have very few if any details becides the fact the airplane landed on a highway. But you are making guesses about wing damage on the ground, bird strike. but the fact is, you just don't know.

Not to shoot fish in a barrell but this is just too much fun...bush pilots are good at doing stupid stuff and getting away with it...but airlines won't hire anyone with the attitude you have about being a bush pilot. Bush pilots have the reputation of not following procedures, ignoring regulations and living short lives. I you don't change that attitude that you are better than all the other pilots out there (even though you only have a few hours) you will definately live a short life.

Have you ever been a bush pilot? Do you know the defination of a bush community. I am currently a bush pilot, and personally know 1/2 a dozen ex-bush pilots who where hired at airlines. Are you making these comments from personal expierance or from hearsay? What do you consider stupid things? In my aviation career I have flown for a couple of companies whos operations dictated a 250' AGL pattern. Today I loaded 1150# of freight into a C-207 and took off into pitch black night over dark featureless terrain. It was VMC, no ceiling, official vis was greater than 10 mi, but I was on instruments the whole flight, including flying the VFR pattern at the villages I went into. Do you consider this to be stupid?

 

[avbug]

I'll back up the comments on flying the back country. Just becaus someone hasn't performed a particular kind of flying, doesn't make it wrong, just not properly understood. I don't believe for a minute that "bush" pilots have a reputation for poor judgement. They/we don't.

This whole discussion reminds me of the scene at the beginning of Men In Black, where the redneck with the shotgun goes to the edge of the crater where the flying saucer just landed. A voice from inside the crater tells him to "put down your weapon."

In the true american way, he responds that the critter can have his gun when he pries his cold, dead fingers from it.

The critter replies, "That is acceptable!"

Some folks just want to be right at any cost. Remove the hat. It's just not a big deal.

 

[flashpoint]

As long as we keep fighting amongst ourselves, the more time it will take to accomplish good things in this industry for eachother. I'm sure University Dude doesn't like being demeaned in security just like the rest of us don't. Who cares.. he's probably young. I say let 'em get some experience in the right seat with some d#$k Captains.

What we need is a positive id system for all airline employees. The days of Captains being Captains and First Class being First Class are pretty much gone... But for those of us left in this biz with 30 years to go like myself, lets stop the fighting, unite, and DAMMIT... DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

 

[ScRaMJeT]

KSU_Aviator that was a cheap shot!!!

Kansass State University Aviator

I can tell you three things about yourself just by the way you talk.
#1. You are a female.
#2. You are laid off from Mesaba.
#3. You’re not… the sharpest knife in the drawer.

How did he cause a safety problem by not taking off his hat? Does he really deserve to get fired because he didn’t take his hat off? Pilots have made royal mistakes on airplanes and have not gotten fired. But yet he deserves to lose everything that he has invested in his career because he didn’t remove his hat for some trigger happy, power hungry security guard. Come on gurlie, wake up and smell the jet fuel.

You said that you,"have never made any unprovoked attacks on any person”, you just made one against those pilots!!!

A.L.P.A. has years and years of experience with pilots and airlines and you are trying to say that they are on the wrong side of the issue and all three pilots deserve to get fired. Your 1300 hours (1100 in 152’s) gives you the ability to judge A.L.P.A. Give me a freaking break. I don’t like paying DALPA dues but I trust they will be there when I need them.

Kansas may have been the #1 one Public College in America (LOL) but they didn’t teach you spelling and grammar real well. By the way you talk, they certainly weren’t #1 in academics and they certainly weren’t #1 in sports, because Oklahoma University has ran all over them for the last 10 years.

I’ve already been brought down a lot of notches by flydeltajets,(boeingman got him back for me) but girl you didn’t bring me down any notches. ROFL

Remember Gurlie: "Its better to be thought of as a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" And if you don’t think this adage is referring to you, then just read a couple of the preceding post.

The pilot should not have gotten fired, plan and simple. I agree with Flashpoint lets band together and march on capitol hill. I propose the MILLION PILOT MARCH.

ScRaMJeT

 

[1900laker]

And by the way ScRaMJeT I graduated from KSU which happens to be the #1 public college in America. So unless you graduated from Stanford, Harvard, Princeton or Yale, I know for a fact that I have a far better education than you and I have flown for an airline and just because I'm on furlough does not mean that I don't know how frustrating it is.

Hey KSU. You missed a comma in the first sentence between KSU and which. Also your second thought is what they call a run-on sentence, which is generally learned about sometime in 6th grade english. Sorry, I couldn't resist since you WERE touting your education above all other public colleges in America. Oh, and by the way, I graduated from the Naval Academy. And I appreciate the fact that your taxes paid to send me there.

Had to have some fun with that.

 

[Michael Knight]

Yeah but how do the security people know that this guy is actually a pilot?

How do WE know that these guys are really security people?

The recent FBI sting found hundreds of counterfeit and some real law enforcement badges, uniforms and other gear for sale - several on ebay. If a bad guy could get a Utah State Trooper's badge for the 2002 Olympics I'm sure they could pull off pretending to be a security checker at an airport much easier than being a pilot for an airline - both would give them access. Makes you think?

Interesting times, I hope we have enough smart people in the right places who can make some changes for the better... like better ID's for Airline pilots.

 

[bigboy]

It's that simple, I dont think that an airline pilot should lose his life long career for such a minor event,dont forget that this person worked soo hard to get to where he is.did we forget about that idiot passenger from Atlanta that shut down the whole airport for hours, and only got fined $3000.Hmmm,let me think here a pilot doesn't take his hat and loses his life long career, and an Idiot cause havoc in the world's bussiest airport, and walks away with a 3000$ fine. WHERE IS THE JUSTICE HERE???!!!

 

[ksu_aviator]

Sence noone seems to believe me that KSU is #1 in academics try this link out...by they way I didn't see OU on there anywhere.

http://www.mediarelations.ksu.edu/WEB/News/NewsReleases/publicscholarschart.pdf

 

[flashpoint]

Hey KSU-

Let's get things back on track shall we... What are your alternative proposals to the some of the current security related issues outlined below:


- Ineffective airport security precedures.
- Unscreened airport workers.
- Unscreened checked bags in aircraft.
- Plastic explosives.
- Unarmed flight crews.
- Elderly or pregnant flight attendants (in 50 years, both)


Thanks
-El Guapo Grande

 

[boscenter]

ksu_aviator

I hardly think a document published by the "media relations & marketing" dept. of KSU can provide unbiased testimony about the quality of it's program.

Granted, I'm sure it's a fine school. But to claim its the best and to shove such a questionable document in my face as "proof" isn't exactly going to cut it.

I'm sure one of the many things you have learned at your fine school is that you should support an argument with clear and unbiased evidence. That document is biased, and doesn't serve a clear purpose.

I also agree that unless you walk through a security checkpoint at a large airport on a daily basis, you have no grounds to make your judgements and claims. This security business has gotten out of hand. And, until they get a team of engineers together to re-design this system from scratch, it will be like this for the forseeable future.

 

[T1bubba]

KSU,

Wow, you went to the "#1 public college in America" and you still made two mistakes in the first three words of your last post. Guess they didn't teach you how to proofread.

BTW, KSU didn't make the top 50 public schools according to US News this year.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/natudoc/natudoc_pubs.htm


T1bubba

 

[ShawnC]

KSU do you think that anyone really cares where you graduated from. I am attending ERAU, but that in real life is not a big deal for me, its just a school.

The point of this thread is to discuse the removal of the hat, lets not get off base and go into personal attacks.