USAF Officer Takes FO's Place During Medical Emergency

[avbug]

Hit what fan? Who is going to argue that incapacitation of a required crewmember is a valid emergency? Under emergency authority, the captain had dispensation to deviate from applicable regulation to the extent necessary to meet that emergency.

If the captain elects to place another pilot in the adjacent vacated seat and delegate responsibilities to that individual, the captain is within his legal discretion.

From the description, I hardly think that the pilot tapped for the exercise was experiencing "wet dreams" over the opportunity. He was on hand, and he assisted, upon request.

UAL 232; Captain Al Haynes elected to utilize help from outside the cockpit when presented the opportunity, and that decision helped contribute in a big way to the ultimate success that the emergency enjoyed...especially considering the extreme nature of the circumstances.

While aircraft control wasn't necessarily an issue here, the airplane is still a two-pilot airplane, and carries type certification to that effect. All training is conducted to that end. Delegating in an emergency or under exigent circumstance is prudent, and right, any security regulation not withstanding.

I've met more than a few headstrong captains who think their cockpit environment is a single pilot environment with an enslaved gear puller at their disposal. That's a bad attitude, folks.

 

[TonyC]

The Air Force pilot did not LAND the airplane; he sat in the right seat, assisted the Captain, and ran the checklist. I'll bet he got to put the gear handle down!


Given enough bananas.... well, I'm sure you know the rest of that one.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Good call guys...I guess its especially true with GPSs and approach couplers...I can't imagine it would be that difficult once you've gotten the type...

I wonder what they'll do...

Sounds like he made the right decision though (since the flight landed safely) so hopefully the s*it won't hit the CA's fan...

-mini

Captain won't have any problems. Emergency situation he can do anything he wants that he feels is necessary for the safety of the flight. HOWEVER, I would hope that he checked the Officers Military ID and Civilian Pilot Certificates (If he holds FAA certificates.) or other ID to verify that he was indeed an Air Force pilot.

But as others stated, the 737 can be flown by one person. We used to do some "SP emergency" ops if we had sim time left after the required items were completed. It is kind of a long reach to get to some of the switches on the far side of the cockpit but can be done without much problem. Heavy weather would make it a good bit tougher though, but still doable in a pinch.

Personally, If I was sure that the Officer was who he said he was, I would have done the same thing. Any pilot trained in Large aircraft and turbine systems is much better than an empty seat when things start going downhill, even if he only reads checklists and swings the gear for you.

 

[minitour]

Hit what fan? Who is going to argue that incapacitation of a required crewmember is a valid emergency? Under emergency authority, the captain had dispensation to deviate from applicable regulation to the extent necessary to meet that emergency.

If the captain elects to place another pilot in the adjacent vacated seat and delegate responsibilities to that individual, the captain is within his legal discretion...

and I agree with you...I just hope some bureaucratic bookworm (Tom Ridge anyone?) in Washington doesn't get a bug up his ass that this is a major "homeland security" issue...

-mini

 

[Freight Dog]

and I agree with you...I just hope some bureaucratic bookworm (Tom Ridge anyone?) in Washington doesn't get a bug up his ass that this is a major "homeland security" issue...

-mini

TSA can pi$$ off... it's bad enough that captain's authority has eroded to the point it has already.

Captain did the right thing. Bureaucratic pukes can suck wind all they want. Is crashing and killing 156 people a better alternative to letting an Air Force pilot in the flight deck to assist you due to a crewmember incapacitation? I think not.

I'm really curious to see if the captain takes any heat for it.

 

[saabcaptain]

There is no way the CA takes heat for it. It was a good decision clearly and the pilot put in the right seat was simply running checklists and such, not actually flying.

 

[T-Gates]

If the Captain did in fact declare an emergency, he can deviate from all FAR's, ops Specs, etc..... Nobody could touch him.....

 

[sf3boy]

Yeah, yeah PIC emergency, deviation all that stuff. Personally, I would be more scared than ever to fly in the future with a captain who can't put it on the ground alone. Although, maybe he just wanted someone to talk to. Maybe the autopilot was MEL'd.

Can TSA still confiscate our certificates? Mesaba Airlines does a sh$@!y job at best of keeping up with security directives and all.

 

[Joe Jet Pilot]

Any Bets

You think this AF guy will get an interview at some point? I would say that he passed the sim check. I hope all is well with the FO on this flight.

 

[avbug]

If the Captain did in fact declare an emergency, he can deviate from all FAR's, ops Specs, etc..... Nobody could touch him.....

WRONG!!!!!


Using the magic "e" word does nothing to insulate anybody from enforcement action of any kind. Nothing. We've been through this recently in detail, and this is one of the pitfalls of seeing the concept of a formal declaration of emergency status as some kind of holy grail. It isn't.

Making a pronunciation of an emergency formall does nothing to alleviate one from adherence to the regulation, nor to insulate one from enforcement action. Further, making a formal declaration is NOT necessary to exercise the emergency authority as pilot in command.

 

[IFlyGC]

But I'll guarantee that guy filled out an ASAP/NASA form (or both) after he landed and that WILL insulate his behind from enforcement action.

 

[Dr Pokenhiemer]

Can you imagine what was going through the Captain's head after seeing his FO sieze out? No wonder he wanted someone to help run the checklists. I would've done the same thing (probably).

 

[avbug]

Can you imagine what was going through the Captain's head after seeing his FO sieze out?

Probably something along the lines of, "Gee, I had the fish, too..."

But I'll guarantee that guy filled out an ASAP/NASA form (or both) after he landed and that WILL insulate his behind from enforcement action.

Absolutely incorrect, and a common misconception. The ASRS program does not insulate one from enforcement action. In fact, you may very well receive a violation; the difference between one who has legitimately filed a timely report and one who hasn't is that the person who filed the report still receives the violation, but doesn't pay the penalty.

The ASRS program does not insulate one from knowing violations, and illegal actions.

In this case, if the case were made that the pilot was aware that allowing an unauthorized individual on the flight deck was illegal, not only would filing the report do him or her no good, but the report itself could be used against the pilot. Further, if it were determined that the action itself was a violation of law (criminal act), the report would also be invalid, and could be used as evidence against the pilot. Finally, the report itself could be the catalyst for proceeding in enforcement action against the pilot, if either of those two former conditions are met.

If the pilot is going to fill one out, it should be kept quiet until the FAA is talking enforcement action and the pilot receives a letter of investigation.

Many pilots are also unaware that while the body of the report is protected from use in enforcement action (unless the violation was done intentionally/knowingly, or if the violation involved a criminal act), the subject/title line and header that are returned to the pilot are NOT protected, and may be used to discover the violation, and may also be used against the pilot.

Can TSA still confiscate our certificates?

TSA never did. The regulation permitted TSA to require the FAA to suspend a pilot's certificates, if the TSA determined the pilot was a security risk. That regulation has been suspended pending review.

 

[ironwedge]

Yes, this reaks of security problems...TSA should have fun with this one.

I think the TSA is going to make dog meat outta the guy who admitted ANYONE into the cockpit (other than a crewmember on that flight), it'll be interesting to see how this goes.

On one hand you have Emergency Authority, on the other hand you have the retards at the TSA.

 

[IFlyGC]

Avbug,
The airlines ASAP program pretty much allows you to get away with anything with the exception of repeatedly making the same violation.
As for "criminal"...you should try reading 91.3 sometime. The captain felt it was necessary to exercise his emerency authority to ensure the safety of flight. A zero body count afterwards proves he made the right call. You wouldn't exactly need OJ Simpsons lawyers to get away with this one!

If the pilot is going to fill one out, it should be kept quiet until the FAA is talking enforcement action and the pilot receives a letter of investigation.

That's the very LAST thing you want to do. What if you don't recieve the letter from the Fed's until the 31st day? Well guess what.....you now can't file a NASA form because the time limit has expired. (Not true for the airlines and the ASAP system)

For the rest of you out there who are all parnoid because you filled a NASA form and now regretting it, DON'T PANIC. If you had an emergency or even if you just plain screwed up, file your NASA form prompty and relax. If no-one was killed, you were sober and didn't perform the mistake intentionally you will be fine.

As for emergencies.......do the right thing. Save lives before saving the plane. If you can stand up in court (as this Capt. could) and say with a straight face why you did what you did you'll be ok.