USAF Navigator

[Jamis81]

Thanks for all the advice, Being a Nav is not something that I would choose as a first choice, my goal is to fly. I'm just looking at everything as I prepare to send in my packet for OTS.
Just an FYI about Air Force Selection rates, they are very full on pilots, 29 percent of people who applied to be a pilot in the last 6 months were chosen, while 95 percent of people who applied to be a Nav were chosen. So I'm just looking at all the options..The Guard is definately something that I am looking into, I'm just trying to look into all the options.

 

[TonyC]

Just an FYI about Air Force Selection rates, they are very full on pilots, 29 percent of people who applied to be a pilot in the last 6 months were chosen, while 95 percent of people who applied to be a Nav were chosen. So I'm just looking at all the options..The Guard is definately something that I am looking into, I'm just trying to look into all the options.

What are the numbers for Air Force Reserve?

 

[Future SNA]

In the kindest way possible, if you really want to be a pilot, knock the cobwebs off of what you and I call physical fitness and apply to the Marines Corps, out of all the services, I think they're officially the only ones declaring, "we're hurting for pilots."

 

[Jafar]

In the kindest way possible, if you really want to be a pilot, knock the cobwebs off of what you and I call physical fitness and apply to the Marines Corps, out of all the services, I think they're officially the only ones declaring, "we're hurting for pilots."

I'm afraid I have to take issue with this statement. 8 years in the Marines has given me a little insight into the organization, not to mention the fact that I've been where you're going. I went through OCS years ago, (as an air contract)completed it, but opted to go another route.

I eventually left the Corps and have decided to go Air Force, most likely Guard or Reserve.

If you want to be a Marine, then join the Marines. That's about all that can accurately be said about it. If you want to be a pilot and think the Marines are in the business of making them you're sadly mistaken. If you want to be a Marine, then a Marine Officer, and lastly a Marine Officer who happens to fly, then maybe consider it.

If one walked into the local OSO shop and told them "Hey man, I wanna fly jets!" They'd probably throw you out. (At least the OSO's I know.) Now if you said "I want more than anything to be an Officer of Marines!" you'd have a conversation. Then you mention "I think I'd like to fly as a Marine Officer" and they send your package up as "air".

Bottom line, I don't think joining the Marines because all you want to do is fly is a very good idea. Furthermore, how much sense does it make when there is a perfectly good AIR Force?

A good friend of mine is a member on this forum and has much better insight on this subject than myself. Hopefully he'll chime in...

 

[usmc33]

Think twice.

In the kindest way possible, if you really want to be a pilot, knock the cobwebs off of what you and I call physical fitness and apply to the Marines Corps, out of all the services, I think they're officially the only ones declaring, "we're hurting for pilots."

Hey, this is going to be a little bit of a pointed conversation but I gotta tell you about the Marines. Do you know why the USMC; the service with the smallest budget (about 4% of DOD budget) has the best recruiting campaign around? It's because that's what it takes to get people to join. I hate to say this, but I was one of those people when I was younger who bought the recruiting campaign and all of the propaganda the the Marines likes to sell. I joined, went to OCS (PLC) became an officer, went on to fly F/A-18s, had a great time, then found out that "Semper Fidelis" is a concept that only works one way, from you to the Corps and NEVER the other way around. Now, please don't get me wrong, I'm not a totally bitter person towards the Corps, I just grew up and found out that my IQ was, in fact, a 3 digit number and I opted to become an Army Special Operator and work with some really intelligent, hardcore, professional people. Check your birth certificate, you may be unqualified to be a Marine.

Look up all of my posts under: "usmc33" and read the history of my comments over the past 2+ years and you'll see that no former Marine has ever disputed anything I've ever said.

The best thing you can do is go to your OSO, tell him thanks anyway and GO AIR FORCE if you want to fly.

 

[Born_a_Longhorn]

As a Pilot/NAV OTS applicant who was just selected for NAV, I'm gonna be brave and speak up. I'll just address things quote by quote.

Jamis, just remember, if you wash out of UPT, they may send you to Nav school, however, if you wash out of Nav school, you will never go to UPT.

If you can't hack it in SUNT, then its highly unlikely you'd hack it in UPT.

Becoming a pilot after being a nav is a pipe dream for the most part. I know there are probably exceptions to what I'm saying, but I think that the whole "be a nav first and become a pilot later" is a lie recruiters try to sell.

and

Becoming a nav will do nothing but give you a slim opportunity to become a Mil pilot after about 3 years. There have been a lot of guys crossing over to go to upt but it is very competitive amongst all of the young navs, i.e. ranked #1 or #2 off of the base ect.

Again, if in your 2-3 years you aren't able to make enough of an impression to get a UPT recommendation, you probably don't have a great shot at getting a UPT slot the first time around. And I don't have exact numbers, but there have been TOO many NAVs crossing over to pilot for them to have all been the #1 or #2 guy on their base. Not only that, but after two years of being a NAV you are allowed to apply to the UPT board every year until you're age-critical (for me this will be 3-4 chances).

I have known a few active duty pilots who were prior navs, but most made the switch years ago when the military was short on pilots. Believe it or not, the USAF is actually now getting fat on pilots, after years of not being able to train them fast enough. The airline environment has become crappy enough that many folks are staying in the military. The cycle repeats itself.

First, the NAV to Pilot switch is still happening, its not a thing of the past. Second, yes the airline situation is crappy and is part of the reason why the AF is retaining pilots and has too many of them, but you provided the reason why... the cycle. There is plenty of reason to believe the airlines will pick up business again and the AF will have a greater need for pilots (not necessarily related, I realize). Guys like myself (and Jamis) wouldn't even have the chance to get to UPT until about 4-5 years down the road anyway, and no one can predict what the airline or AF pilot situation will be then.

Go in as a non-rated officer, or enlist in a guard unit. Fly general aviation planes, you'll have the money for at least some flying....It's not that being a nav is a bad job, it's just not the best way to the pilots seat.

As someone who had the opporunity to go in as an engineer and get the chance to apply to cross to pilot almost immediately, I disagree with going in doing something you REALLY wouldn't want to do while hoping for a UPT slot.

And to cap it off, the fun jobs, like EF-111 or F-4G EWO are almost all gone.

Obviously you're the expert, but don't you think C-130, B-1, and F-15 NAV/WSOs would take issue with this? Doesn't it make sense that the lowest ranked guys in SUNT are the ones that end up with the "least fun" E-3 and E-8 slots?

 

[JimNtexas]

As a Pilot/NAV OTS applicant who was just selected for NAV, I'm gonna be brave and speak up. I'll just address things quote by quote.
.....
As someone who had the opporunity to go in as an engineer and get the chance to apply to cross to pilot almost immediately, I disagree with going in doing something you REALLY wouldn't want to do while hoping for a UPT slot.
Obviously you're the expert, but don't you think C-130, B-1, and F-15 NAV/WSOs would take issue with this? Doesn't it make sense that the lowest ranked guys in SUNT are the ones that end up with the "least fun" E-3 and E-8 slots?

I'm being a little parochial there I admit. While being an EF-111 crewmember in either seat is pretty much the pinnacle of human achievement since the dawn of time, I will concede that our lesser brothers and sisters in the aviation hierarchy have a little fun also.

Funmeters aside, Your post is 100% logical. I just suggest that you be the best nav you can be. Don't whine about not being a pilot, just put your head down, keep a positive attitude, and do the work to the best of your ability.

When the time comes to apply to UPT you'll have a good chance to get in.