USA Today "being a pilot just ins't what

[SWA/FO]

USA Today "being a pilot just ins't what it used to be" 3/18/03

I just don't get it?

This article is about being a pilot now-a-days. It talks about a United pilot then it mentions a couple US Airway pilots.

A US Airway guy...there for 3 years, now furloughed. He is 35 years old. Says "he considered applying to to the biggest airline still hiring, discount giant Southwest Airlines. Even if he could get hired , he says, he would make about a third of what he was earning at US Airways."

I agree, you don't start off making $96,000/yr. at SWA. You don't start off making that much at any carrier. I would think applying to SWA, JetBlue & Airtran would be a no brainer? If this guy was hired at SWA in the next 2 years (age 37), would be a Captain by 42, that means Captain pay for 18 years. Hired at Jetblue probably a Captain within 18 months and three years at Airtran. Would he have been a Captain at US Airways anytime in his career there? Doubt it.

Now maybe its just me but I read this article and it sounds like this guy is 58 1/2 years old, he is only 35. I know things are tough, and its depressing, but get back on the horse!!! It did not work at US Airways, go find your airline. JetBlue, Airtran, Southwest & ATA are all hiring. Jetblue growing by (something like) 28 % a year? Southwest growing by 8-10% a year. Don't miss the boat! Southwest will double in size in the next 10 years.....thats 700 aircraft total with 9000 + pilots ( we have 4100 now).

This guy has options.... he is in a better spot then some of his fellow pilots who have lost their pension.

(Now networ-king and flydeltajets - be nice to me)

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Furlough

SWAF/O Said, "go find your airline."

While I was still employed by US Airways I would sometimes ask the Captains I flew with, "What would you do if US Airways went out of business tomorrow?"

The answer, most often, was "I guess I would go work for Southwest".

It always made me laugh (to myself of course)... I would think,
"Oh you're just going to GO to Southwest....just gonna show up on Monday. They've probably been waiting for you. Just hop right on over."

It isnt that easy. Not for a 20 year US Airways 737 Captain -- and not for a 3 year US Airways furloughee.

Since the furloughs began back in October of 01 I've had the opportunity(?) to go to a number of Kit Darby's little love-fests. I've interviewed with a half dozen airlines.

"Find your airline" is, in my opinion, a thoughtless and irresponsible thing to say in an industry with nearly 10,000 furloughed pilots. It says to me that you have no idea what the industry is like outside of your Southwest family.

Competition for jobs at career companies like Southwest and ATA is fierce. Both have thousands of pilots in line to interview, much less, start class.

I'd ask you, SWAF/O, to show a little compassion to the furloughed major airline pilots. Many of them, if they chose to remain in aviation, have taken jobs at regional airlines, or charter companies. Most have resigned their seniority -- given up the brass ring in order to feed their families. Some have quit flying altogether. Nomatter what that pilot does he will likely never make his US Airways salary again. Telling him to go "find his airline" -- go get that job with Southwest is just as silly as those Captains telling me that they were going to "go work for Southwest".

Might as well tell him to "just go win the lottery".

 

[Wiskey Driver]

You reminded me of an episode of Seinfeld where George just shows up at a company he was never hired with and starts work. I guess some just think that it's that easy...

WD.

 

[Steeler Fan]

The media can be our friend here!

I think there might just be a really good point here, if I can figure out how to put it in writing!

There needs to be a concentrated effort to use the media effectively to educate the public that not ALL airline pilots make 300,000/year, drive Corvette's, and receive huge retirements. I think that it is so hard to get back on the horse, because there are so few great jobs out there. ALPA and other Unions should make sure that the Newspaper's are telling about the $17,000 ERJ F/O. The traveling public needs to know what's going on in the lives of our pilots, especially the one's who are furloughed, and the ones who have taken MASSIVE pay cuts while 3 guys (SW, RG, and LN) get >$30 Million as a reward for leaving USAirways completely weak and vulnerable.

I think SWA, FDX, JB, ATA, and Air Tran would be great too, but look at how long guys have been in the pool there. Been tryin' to get "Back on the Horse" for over 15 months now. I'm NOT looking for sympathy (a recommendation letter would be great, and ALWAYS appreciated), but I think most of us furloughed pilots HAVE been aggressively trying to get back on the horse, but it's REALLY hard when the stable is EMPTY!

I really think that SWAF/O's comments did not come out the way he meant them, but times are tough, and I think most guys are trying REALLY hard!

Being furloughed is ROUGH. I think the general population has NO IDEA how unstable this industry is. Management sure does a great job of making it look like Pilots are the #1 financial strain on the Airline Industry...I think ALPA National should do EVERYTHING they can to win the PR war, but sometimes it looks like too often they're sitting on the sidelines...if I'm wrong, please let me know.

 

[SWA/FO]

Guys...

I did not say it was easy... I know things are tough.. But you wont get hired unless you apply! The article stated "considered applying".

Should I have said, gee, your right just don't apply anywhere, I mean your 35 years old its all over?

This article, just reminds me of a buddy of mine furloughed from US Airways (he was 10 from the bottom) who is searching for work. He states he does not want to resign his number there.....fine, I told him by not considering "resigning your seniority number - you are limiting your job search"

I'm not Kit Darby - so don't take any of this to the bank.

Hey, I interviewed at 4 majors until, I got lucky. I went to all Kit Darby's conventions. I was told by UAL to build more PIC time, heck US Airways did not want me and Fed Ex did not like me either...but I kept going.

Keep looking guys, don't give up. Some guys here at SWA are on their 3rd or 4th airline and they are making a good living too. Sometimes you don't stay at the same airline.

So go find your airline, do what you have to do to pay your bills. Heck, I would be at Home Depot or Lowes but I would apply to everyone that is hiring!!! I would be making phone calls to all my buddies. You don't know me but if you asked my friends from National & US Airways you would find that I am bending over backwards to help them out where ever I can!!!!

 

[Counselair]

Hey SWA/FO,

I think your piece is supposed to be a shot in the arm but it's coming off as a kick to the a$$.

I'm 35.

I'm on my 6th airline hoping to see my 7th.

This is my third furlough.

There is a looming Chapter 11 (my second), I've seen Chapter 13.

I've been budget cut 3 months prior to UPT.

I was Chief Flight Instructor at a school that went out of business.

I held the golden ring at the "largest airline in the world" but it proved too slippery. Oh, and I paid "my dues". I've applied to every airline, fractional and coorporation that my family can afford for me to work in. When you find the magic trick that let's you get hired by whoever you want please pass it on. I appreciate your optimism from the ivory tower but us fellas on the street have a more realistic viewing point. Thanks anyway.

Counselair

 

[SWA/FO]

I really wish all you guys well.. I don't think for a second that I or my Company are immune to any of this?

There are some flying opportunties out there. Quality of life jobs, no. 17 -18 days off a month, no.

Example: Kalitta Flying Services is looking for Falcon 20 Captains/FO's... Evergreen has hired 747 FOs recently. USA Jet has had a few classes (some furloughed NWA guys there).

Some place you want to spend a career at, no... maybe a year or two, why not? until things get turned around. I made 70,000 a year flying freight (day/middle of the night). It sucked, but it paid the bills.

The reason I am bring this up is that I have passed this info onto some people and they have dragged their feet saying...I'm going to look around a bit and then if I can't find something, then I will look into those jobs? My thoughts are get what you can and then look to better your position.

Now, you guys are not the same people I have been talking to... When I read an article like that it just reminds me of some of my friends who have let good opportunites pass by. Its a tough market and its going to get tougher.

Sorry if I pi$$ed anybody off.... I did not intend to

 

[Midnight Mike]

SWA/FO

I read your post, you meant well, your comments were meant to encourage and motivate, if somebody can not appreciate that, the hell with them, you can not help everybody, help the guy that will appreciate it. Don't let a couple of negative comments get you down...

 

[SWA/FO]

Thanks.... I was going crazy re-reading my posts thinking "what the _uck?"

 

[Lookingforwork]

I didn't find your remarks too motivational. It is a very tough job market out there and it is even more difficult for furloughees. Just a couple of years ago there were plenty of jobs to get by. Those 70,000/year freight jobs just aren't there right now. You mentioned a few companies that are hiring now, how many apps do you think they have on file now? I'll bet hundreds and in some cases thousands for decent positions.

I am not saying to give up, but these are tough times now. I am fortunate to have stayed in the reserves while I am seeking a new job. I wish everyone the best of luck and keep the faith that times will improve soon.

 

[SWA/FO]

I give up. Good Luck to all

 

[RUhiring?]

Some U furloughed guy is 10 from the bottom and is limiting himself because he doesn't want to give up his seniority? What is he smoking? IF he ever sees a U cockpit again, it will be 10+ years. There are guys with 15+ years of seniority resigning their number.

It is by all means his right to hang on to that number, but he'd better not bet his career on it, and better start looking for work outside of aviation.

 

[UGApilotDAWG]

SWA / FO

hey Midnight Mike was right on. You can't hear the tone of someone's voice on these Message Boards so one might as well be optimistic and read everything in a helpful tone. Everyone knows it is rough going putting dinner on the table these days. Keep posting your messages because there are a lot of us out there struggling to tread water who want your helpful advice!

Aloha,
Les

 

[Flyky]

SWA/FO RIGHT ON!!!

SWA/FO

I know it is like talking to a brick wall. Some would rather just sit on their heels and want everyone to feel sorry for them. I went through that as a furloughed pilot who is currently doing remodeling (which really sucks). But, I grabbed something right away to pay the bills and while I work my butt off to get back into the air. I am now waiting, still remodeling, for my number in the pool for SWA.

No, it is not easy and these are very trying times, but that is no reason to give up, especially at 35. I am 35 and starting over soon at SWA. Now, I am sure some of you are just going to say "another soon to be SWA pilot backing up his co-worker; fine that is the easy way out to feel more sorry for yourself. Or you can take it as the Kick in the a$$ that you need to get out of your misery and apply to the airlines he mentioned and get back on your feet again.

It is not easy, it is not fun, but life is not fair. Get over it and get on with it.

Oh, and just for the double whammy; my wife, who spent 7 years at TWA/AA is now getting furloughed in May. She is very upset, mad, dejected, pissed off, sad, angry, etc. But, you know what she will be over that and on with our lives real soon. She is already sent several apps. out and gotten some positive responses.

Every one needs the time for grief, but then you have to move on!!!!

Okay, I am off my soap box, feel free to lash out and tear apart everything I said or spelled wrong.

Flyky

 

[falconpileit]

corporate side of this

I know this is going to come off as just jealousy talking BUT what I got out of the article, from the prospective of a corporate pilot is that airline pilots are spoiled! My brother in law is a senior guy at Continental and I can tell you for sure that I work 3 times as hard as he does and he makes twice as much money as I do.

Does it not seem possible to you airline guys that part of the problem with all of these airlines is the system itself? I mean how can they justifly a $300 round trip ticket from LA to NYC and then turn around and pay their employees about 3 times what the market will bear?

Did you catch the line in the article that said the pilot and his wife had let their nanny go! He's making big bucks......flying 12 days a month......his wife stays home and they've got a nanny!!! Once again, is it jus me or it something wrong with that picture?

 

[WhiteCloud]

Re: corporate side of this

Did you catch the line in the article that said the pilot and his wife had let their nanny go! He's making big bucks......flying 12 days a month......his wife stays home and they've got a nanny!!! Once again, is it jus me or it something wrong with that picture?

I saw another article that portrayed the "woes" of the displaced UAL employees. One of the examples was how a gay couple (FA's)had to sell their boat and the other examples, like the one above, didn't exactly elicit sympathy either.

 

[SFR]

Maybe I am crazy but I think that the job I have flying for an airline is the best job in the world!!! Lets get real....the days that pilots call bad are like everybody else in the world's good days. We hardly work, and when we do we have fun.

So as to the USA Today article. They should compare the pilot's life to the typical retail, construction, janitorial, teacher, etc. job.

We have it great!!!!

 

[Midnight Mike]

Flyky

You poor thing, pissed off/laid off wife & a F/A, guess you won't be getting lucky tonight!

 

[scubabri]

Wait, there is something I don't get. Historically, there have been jobs that require a lot of education expense, bear a lot of responsibility etc etc, such as doctors, lawyers, architects and pilots.

Do you want some guy in the front seat of your aircraft that is grumpy because he can barely pay rent, eat the right foods, etc etc or do you want someone in the front seat that is not worrying about whether his car is gonna get repo'd and can focus on flying the plane.

There was a thread earlier, and I can't remember if it was on this board or another, regarding that a flight crew earn their pay when the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** hits the fan.

Personally, I'd rather pay a guy/gal lotso bux to make sure that I make it to my destination without crashing and dying.

IMOHO

Brian

 

[Yahtzee]

Rock on SWA/FO

Some people have more stress in their lives than others, but some people choose to add more stress to their lives by making bad decisions such as living beyond their means.

On the other hand there are thousands of folks who prepared themselves well for future careers, made the best choices they were offered, and due to no fault of their own, find themselves in less fortunate situations.

If you took SWA/FO's comments harshly, try reading his posts again and look for the positive things he offered. He and others may be more fortunate than you or I in terms of flying jobs, but IMHO he is simply trying to help folks move on to better places.

And if you think you are so unfortunate, one of my best friends was six rides away from finishing F-15 RTU (training) when he was grounded with diabeties. He was medically discharged from the Air Force, his wife divorced him (one of best things that ever happened to him), and he had to start over never to fly commericially again. He was devasted in 1996. Today he flies single engine Cessnas and Pipers, and has to pay to do it. He has a beautiful wife and an awesome little boy. Last month, he told me he missed flying for the AF and thought about it ever day. Then I asked him if he would trade seeing his wife and kid every day for flying an F-15 knowing he would be away from home five plus months a year. His answer: No way!

Be thankful to God you've had the opportunity to fly and do things millions of folks will never do.

I'm not at SWA, in anyone's pool, nor have I ever flown for any airline. I don't have a full-time job, and if I never fly again, I will simply move on. Flying is a great part of my life, but it doesn't define my life. If SWA/FO offended you instead of encouraging you, just remember we aren't promised anything.

May all of you furloughees find what you're looking for. I've got hundreds of friends in the same boat...some at UAL, DAL, USAir, AA, and the original TWA. This is a tough time. It's much easier if you can smile.


Yahtz

 

[Flyky]

Drawing conclusions!

Just to set the records straight. My wife, whom I spoke of in an earlier post is not an FA. She is a pilot for TWA/AA on the 75/76 now bumped to the MD80 and soon to be bumped to the street.

And Falconpileit you so sound like you are jealous. I have flown both corporate and the airlines. Both have positives and negatives. You have only been on one side of the fence and sounds like you wish you were on the other.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Re: corporate side of this

Did you catch the line in the article that said the pilot and his wife had let their nanny go! He's making big bucks......flying 12 days a month......his wife stays home and they've got a nanny!!! Once again, is it jus me or it something wrong with that picture?

No. There is nothing wrong with that picture, except for the fact that it seems to be fading.

We deserve to be well compensated for the jobs we do. It is just a shame that so few pilots seem to think so anymore.

Don't worry, guys. Some of us will continue to fight for the high salaries we deserve, so the rest of you can still make good money while undercutting us.

When we cut our salary to your levels, get VERY nervous. Then it will be you who hear the call to "save your airline" by cutting your salaries.

Until that happens, I would think that other pilots would applaud pilots who make good salaries, rather than begrudge them. This board depresses me sometimes.

 

[UGApilotDAWG]

AMEN Yahtz!

You're right on as usual - I knew you were a bright guy for going to UGA! - and the Sugar Bowl! I know everyone's disgruntled - we all have buddies or ourselves that went from a comfortable life to food stamps just like that. You have two choices - roll with the punches, find a positive alternative and do the best you can or stress out complaining and give yourself and your family an ulcer or heart attack. I choose the happy side. If my class date for SWA doesn't come for years or not at all, I'll go do something I love but doesn't pay as well - work for the local humane society with all the wonderful but unfortunate dogs - and have a much less stressful and very rewarding job even though the pay and aviation benefits wouldn't be there...but my wife and my family would get by. It's all how you look at the world and how you react. I'll cheer on SWA/FO any day and do the best I can keeping my fingers crossed for a class date soon!

Aloha,
Les

Support and pray for our troops

 

[Ty Webb]

Re: Re: corporate side of this

Originally posted by FlyDeltasJets
We deserve to be well compensated for the jobs we do. It is just a shame that so few pilots seem to think so anymore.

Don't worry, guys. Some of us will continue to fight for the high salaries we deserve, so the rest of you can still make good money while undercutting us.

What a pompous ass. I can see you right now, FDJ, furloughed as hell, yet sitting in front of your computer in your full uniform, writing posts about "protecting the profession" right up until your 3:00 p.m. check-in time at the PeachTree City Home Depot.

This may surprise you, FDJ, but I wouldn't trade seniority numbers with you, and neither would most of my co-workers.

I would much rather skip the orange-apron apron duty over at Home Depot, take a quick upgrade, and be making a decent living while enjoying a nice quality of life, working with pleasant people at a growing company.

You made your choices, and I made mine. But don't put that apron on for me . . . . . put it on for you.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Talk to me in a year. Better yet, talk to me when you're 60.

You tried like hell for my number, and couldn't get it. You'll want it again soon. Don't act like it was your choice to go to airtran...You didn't get hired at Delta. If you had, you would have accepted. To pretend otherwise is dishonest and transparent. Or did you accept the Midwest Express interview and turn down Delta's?

Your post was as insensitive as it was inaccurate. Suffice it to say, I am using my furlough as an opportunity to build for the future, and thus far, it has been productive and even rewarding. Thank you for your concern, but if you think that Home Depot is all a pilot can do on a furlough, you must have a very low opinion of your own non-aviation skills.

 

[chase]

Thoughts

I too read the article in USA. Some of the points have been made & debated. I won't enter that fray but do wish to make the following observation about a comment FlyDeltajets.. No disrespect FDJ, just wanted to comment:

We deserve (my emphasis added) to be well compensated for the jobs we do. It is just a shame that so few pilots seem to think so anymore.

The market place (i.e. customer) determines how much our services are worth, not ourselves. Labor groups can withold their services or use other measures to drive that worth up but in reality this only delays the normal economic cycle which drives salaries to their determined level (determined by customers).

This industry has changed forever. Continuing to wish for something to return to a previous state when it has irreparably changed forever is like wishing for the airplane to come back to the gate to pickup the late passenger....it just won't happen.

I, like so many on here, have many friends that are going through incredibly difficult times. I empathize with their position but can't imagine the pain & frustration those who are furloughed/unemployed must be experiencing. I only hope and prayer for their quick return to meaningful employment. I just don't believe it will be at wages that previously existed. This is no one's fault, it is the economic system we live under....one I believe is the strongest in existance. It allows for great success but it also allows for failure. To guarantee only success would be to make something I wouldn't want to be a part of.

If some posts appear to gloat over a reduction in pay by some I believe those are being mis-read. I would like my family to have so many more things than what I have right now. If I really wish for them to have it then I need to do something (make more money) for that to occur. Deserve doesn't have anything to do with, it is what I'm willing to sacrifice for them in order to achieve it.

For those "fighting" to keep wages high. If that is the justification you use to turn down contracts, then nothing I say will change your opinion most likely. I will state what other believe I think:don't feel you're doing it for my family, other pilot's family or anything else other than a misdirected sense of allegiance to someone/some group other than your family. You're not taking some bunker in Baghdad, it's only a job, one that provides a steady stream of income for your family. My family rate much higher on my food chain than a group of 100,000+ pilots. For those who might find this shocking, please increase the medication immediately.

My mother (she is 85) related a similar economic evolution story to me recently:

She recalled in 1925 when electricity came to her small rural home. Prior to that their icebox was serviced by the iceman several times a week with huge blocks of ice at some expense. They (the consumer) elected to tap into the new electric lines near their homes & immediately purchased a refrigerator. The ice man's business slowly changed to providing ice from home use to filling up refrigeration cars for the trains passing through. Once refrigerated railroad cars came along the final death kneel occurred for his business. I'm sure he thought he deserved a better fate than what he got but the consumer dictated his future, not what he thought he "deserved". This isn't right or wrong, it is about economic freedom. It is a simple story & doesn't include labor unions, strikes, work action or other labor actions so if you wish to critique the illustration, point conceded.

Companies wishing to alter their business models to adjust to these times are ones that should be admired & encouraged. I applaud what the management & labor groups of all the airlines are doing to achieve this goal. They are betting their position with their lives, family lives and future career earnings....I'm hopeful SWA isn't pushed to this dilemma but one can't be complacent that is for sure. I wish them only the best. Cheers & God Bless our troops,

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Chase,

Thank you for your polite tone. I have a degree in economics, and am currently pursuing an MBA, so I am well aware of the power of market forces. I am not willing to concede, however, that they are all-powerful in this industry. If they were, you and I would not be having this discussion, because we would have been long ago replaced with Korean Air pilots making 5$ a day! There are many factors which prevent our industry from being a truly "free" market, and labor unions and the contracts they negotiate are one of those things.

Now I will admit that the days of highly paid airline pilots may be over. I will admit that market forces are putting pressure on those salaries the likes of which we have not seen before. However, I am not ready to concede the fight. Part of that fight is identifying issues which are affecting us. It is obvious to anyone with a rational mind that low cost carriers are putting pressure on the salaries of their major counterparts. The evidence is everywhere. Now, I realize that, as you mentioned, everyone is trying to do the best they can for their families. I am doing the same. I have been very careful never to criticize any individual pilot. We are all doing the best we can. That being said, it concerns me greatly to hear so many people on this and other boards gleefully repeating the mgt and media mantra that we are overpaid. Many point to the albeit respectable salaries they are making and deride those who seek more. What so few seem to realize, and what I have attempted many times to convey, is that those respectable salaries are only so because they are based on an industry standard. When that industry standard is lowered, so will that salaries based upon it. In other words, when our highest paid pilots take a paycut, we ALL will be forced to. Especially the low cost carriers, or they will cease to exist. Just because they are doing well now does not make them immune to market reality.

I know that, to a degree, the market dicatates what we receive. What too few realize is that right now, the salaries at the majors set the market for all pilot salaries. When that market falls, we will all suffer. When do you suppose it will end? When we lower our salaries, do you imagine that the mgts of the lcc's will stand by and watch their largest cost advantage dry up? No. The onus will then be on the lcc pilots to "help save the company." Then it will be our turn again. I would just as soon not start down that slippery slope.

Unfortunately, many pilots would rather deride me for pointing out the trend than accept the painful truth facing our profession. Luckily, there are many pilots who see the writing on the wall, and are willing to fight, yes, for the benefit of their families, but also to protect the gains won by those who came before us. I guess it remains to be seen who will prevail.

 

[duckman]

Re: AMEN Yahtz!

You're right on as usual - I knew you were a bright guy for going to UGA! - and the Sugar Bowl! I know everyone's disgruntled - we all have buddies or ourselves that went from a comfortable life to food stamps just like that. You have two choices - roll with the punches, find a positive alternative and do the best you can or stress out complaining and give yourself and your family an ulcer or heart attack. I choose the happy side. If my class date for SWA doesn't come for years or not at all, I'll go do something I love but doesn't pay as well - work for the local humane society with all the wonderful but unfortunate dogs - and have a much less stressful and very rewarding job even though the pay and aviation benefits wouldn't be there...but my wife and my family would get by. It's all how you look at the world and how you react. I'll cheer on SWA/FO any day and do the best I can keeping my fingers crossed for a class date soon!

Aloha,
Les

What ever works Les....don't forget the singing of KumBaYa in there somewhere???



Support and pray for our troops

 

[Ty Webb]

Why? So you can tell me about your desk job? Or, if by some big stroke of luck, you are recalled, so you can tell me all about the wonders of MD80 school, and reserve life? Get real.

Better yet, talk to me when you're 60.

When I am 60, I will still be me, and you will still be you, and that will largely govern how happy we are, not who has the bigger boat or nicer condo(s).

You tried like hell for my number, and couldn't get it. You'll want it again soon.

Man, you really are a horse's ass, aren't you? I never applied to Delta, thank you.

Don't act like it was your choice to go to airtran...

You just don't get it, do you? Most of us don't feel like we somehow "settled". . . . . Some of us are happy to have a good schedule, nice equipment, decent pay, and not have to work with too many self-righteous a-holes . . . .

You didn't get hired at Delta. If you had, you would have accepted.


See above.

Your post was as insensitive as it was inaccurate.

You fired first with your cheap shot.

Suffice it to say, I am using my furlough as an opportunity to build for the future, and thus far, it has been productive and even rewarding. .

That's nice. like I said, we all make our choices.

if you think that Home Depot is all a pilot can do on a furlough, you must have a very low opinion of your own non-aviation skills.

I have done the things that you are only learning about right now, working on your MBA, pal. I chose to sit out the last aviation downturn, so you;re not doing anything I haven't already done. I came out of it a little more humble, and perhaps you will, too.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Originally posted by FlyDeltasJets

Man, you really are a horse's ass, aren't you? I never applied to Delta, thank you.

You applied to airtran and Midwest, but didn't apply to Delta? Curious.


You just don't get it, do you? Most of us don't feel like we somehow "settled". . . . . Some of us are happy to have a good schedule, nice equipment, decent pay, and not have to work with too many self-righteous a-holes . . . .

You expect me to believe that you wouldn't have accepted employment at Delta if it had been offered?


You fired first with your cheap shot.


I don't remember any cheap shot. I have always tried to refrain from personal attacks on this board. You, apparently, did not hold yourself to the same standard.

I wrote that some people are undercutting our salaries. That is a fact, not a cheap shot. It is ironic to me that you seem more concerned with a perceived slight to you than you are with the effect that current mgt policies are having on our profession. After all, wasn't it you who earlier in the thread pointed out that some major pilots will be paid less than national pilots. What do you think that will lead to. Hint: It ain't a payraise for you. I would expect more people to be concerned about that. Instead, many prefer to insult.




I have done the things that you are only learning about right now, working on your MBA, pal. I chose to sit out the last aviation downturn, so you;re not doing anything I haven't already done. I came out of it a little more humble, and perhaps you will, too.

You have no idea what I'm doing, and I don't feel the need to explain.

Also, perhaps you could refrain from name-calling? Normally the first to resort to such measures is the one with the weakest argument. I prefer to keep my discussions centered on this industry and the problems is faces. If you would prefer to name-call, insult, and get personal, you'll have to do it with someone else. I'll just put you on ignore.