USA Today "being a pilot just ins't what

[Flyky]

Drawing conclusions!

Just to set the records straight. My wife, whom I spoke of in an earlier post is not an FA. She is a pilot for TWA/AA on the 75/76 now bumped to the MD80 and soon to be bumped to the street.

And Falconpileit you so sound like you are jealous. I have flown both corporate and the airlines. Both have positives and negatives. You have only been on one side of the fence and sounds like you wish you were on the other.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Re: corporate side of this

Did you catch the line in the article that said the pilot and his wife had let their nanny go! He's making big bucks......flying 12 days a month......his wife stays home and they've got a nanny!!! Once again, is it jus me or it something wrong with that picture?

No. There is nothing wrong with that picture, except for the fact that it seems to be fading.

We deserve to be well compensated for the jobs we do. It is just a shame that so few pilots seem to think so anymore.

Don't worry, guys. Some of us will continue to fight for the high salaries we deserve, so the rest of you can still make good money while undercutting us.

When we cut our salary to your levels, get VERY nervous. Then it will be you who hear the call to "save your airline" by cutting your salaries.

Until that happens, I would think that other pilots would applaud pilots who make good salaries, rather than begrudge them. This board depresses me sometimes.

 

[UGApilotDAWG]

AMEN Yahtz!

You're right on as usual - I knew you were a bright guy for going to UGA! - and the Sugar Bowl! I know everyone's disgruntled - we all have buddies or ourselves that went from a comfortable life to food stamps just like that. You have two choices - roll with the punches, find a positive alternative and do the best you can or stress out complaining and give yourself and your family an ulcer or heart attack. I choose the happy side. If my class date for SWA doesn't come for years or not at all, I'll go do something I love but doesn't pay as well - work for the local humane society with all the wonderful but unfortunate dogs - and have a much less stressful and very rewarding job even though the pay and aviation benefits wouldn't be there...but my wife and my family would get by. It's all how you look at the world and how you react. I'll cheer on SWA/FO any day and do the best I can keeping my fingers crossed for a class date soon!

Aloha,
Les

Support and pray for our troops

 

[Ty Webb]

Re: Re: corporate side of this

Originally posted by FlyDeltasJets
We deserve to be well compensated for the jobs we do. It is just a shame that so few pilots seem to think so anymore.

Don't worry, guys. Some of us will continue to fight for the high salaries we deserve, so the rest of you can still make good money while undercutting us.

What a pompous ass. I can see you right now, FDJ, furloughed as hell, yet sitting in front of your computer in your full uniform, writing posts about "protecting the profession" right up until your 3:00 p.m. check-in time at the PeachTree City Home Depot.

This may surprise you, FDJ, but I wouldn't trade seniority numbers with you, and neither would most of my co-workers.

I would much rather skip the orange-apron apron duty over at Home Depot, take a quick upgrade, and be making a decent living while enjoying a nice quality of life, working with pleasant people at a growing company.

You made your choices, and I made mine. But don't put that apron on for me . . . . . put it on for you.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Talk to me in a year. Better yet, talk to me when you're 60.

You tried like hell for my number, and couldn't get it. You'll want it again soon. Don't act like it was your choice to go to airtran...You didn't get hired at Delta. If you had, you would have accepted. To pretend otherwise is dishonest and transparent. Or did you accept the Midwest Express interview and turn down Delta's?

Your post was as insensitive as it was inaccurate. Suffice it to say, I am using my furlough as an opportunity to build for the future, and thus far, it has been productive and even rewarding. Thank you for your concern, but if you think that Home Depot is all a pilot can do on a furlough, you must have a very low opinion of your own non-aviation skills.

 

[chase]

Thoughts

I too read the article in USA. Some of the points have been made & debated. I won't enter that fray but do wish to make the following observation about a comment FlyDeltajets.. No disrespect FDJ, just wanted to comment:

We deserve (my emphasis added) to be well compensated for the jobs we do. It is just a shame that so few pilots seem to think so anymore.

The market place (i.e. customer) determines how much our services are worth, not ourselves. Labor groups can withold their services or use other measures to drive that worth up but in reality this only delays the normal economic cycle which drives salaries to their determined level (determined by customers).

This industry has changed forever. Continuing to wish for something to return to a previous state when it has irreparably changed forever is like wishing for the airplane to come back to the gate to pickup the late passenger....it just won't happen.

I, like so many on here, have many friends that are going through incredibly difficult times. I empathize with their position but can't imagine the pain & frustration those who are furloughed/unemployed must be experiencing. I only hope and prayer for their quick return to meaningful employment. I just don't believe it will be at wages that previously existed. This is no one's fault, it is the economic system we live under....one I believe is the strongest in existance. It allows for great success but it also allows for failure. To guarantee only success would be to make something I wouldn't want to be a part of.

If some posts appear to gloat over a reduction in pay by some I believe those are being mis-read. I would like my family to have so many more things than what I have right now. If I really wish for them to have it then I need to do something (make more money) for that to occur. Deserve doesn't have anything to do with, it is what I'm willing to sacrifice for them in order to achieve it.

For those "fighting" to keep wages high. If that is the justification you use to turn down contracts, then nothing I say will change your opinion most likely. I will state what other believe I think:don't feel you're doing it for my family, other pilot's family or anything else other than a misdirected sense of allegiance to someone/some group other than your family. You're not taking some bunker in Baghdad, it's only a job, one that provides a steady stream of income for your family. My family rate much higher on my food chain than a group of 100,000+ pilots. For those who might find this shocking, please increase the medication immediately.

My mother (she is 85) related a similar economic evolution story to me recently:

She recalled in 1925 when electricity came to her small rural home. Prior to that their icebox was serviced by the iceman several times a week with huge blocks of ice at some expense. They (the consumer) elected to tap into the new electric lines near their homes & immediately purchased a refrigerator. The ice man's business slowly changed to providing ice from home use to filling up refrigeration cars for the trains passing through. Once refrigerated railroad cars came along the final death kneel occurred for his business. I'm sure he thought he deserved a better fate than what he got but the consumer dictated his future, not what he thought he "deserved". This isn't right or wrong, it is about economic freedom. It is a simple story & doesn't include labor unions, strikes, work action or other labor actions so if you wish to critique the illustration, point conceded.

Companies wishing to alter their business models to adjust to these times are ones that should be admired & encouraged. I applaud what the management & labor groups of all the airlines are doing to achieve this goal. They are betting their position with their lives, family lives and future career earnings....I'm hopeful SWA isn't pushed to this dilemma but one can't be complacent that is for sure. I wish them only the best. Cheers & God Bless our troops,

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Chase,

Thank you for your polite tone. I have a degree in economics, and am currently pursuing an MBA, so I am well aware of the power of market forces. I am not willing to concede, however, that they are all-powerful in this industry. If they were, you and I would not be having this discussion, because we would have been long ago replaced with Korean Air pilots making 5$ a day! There are many factors which prevent our industry from being a truly "free" market, and labor unions and the contracts they negotiate are one of those things.

Now I will admit that the days of highly paid airline pilots may be over. I will admit that market forces are putting pressure on those salaries the likes of which we have not seen before. However, I am not ready to concede the fight. Part of that fight is identifying issues which are affecting us. It is obvious to anyone with a rational mind that low cost carriers are putting pressure on the salaries of their major counterparts. The evidence is everywhere. Now, I realize that, as you mentioned, everyone is trying to do the best they can for their families. I am doing the same. I have been very careful never to criticize any individual pilot. We are all doing the best we can. That being said, it concerns me greatly to hear so many people on this and other boards gleefully repeating the mgt and media mantra that we are overpaid. Many point to the albeit respectable salaries they are making and deride those who seek more. What so few seem to realize, and what I have attempted many times to convey, is that those respectable salaries are only so because they are based on an industry standard. When that industry standard is lowered, so will that salaries based upon it. In other words, when our highest paid pilots take a paycut, we ALL will be forced to. Especially the low cost carriers, or they will cease to exist. Just because they are doing well now does not make them immune to market reality.

I know that, to a degree, the market dicatates what we receive. What too few realize is that right now, the salaries at the majors set the market for all pilot salaries. When that market falls, we will all suffer. When do you suppose it will end? When we lower our salaries, do you imagine that the mgts of the lcc's will stand by and watch their largest cost advantage dry up? No. The onus will then be on the lcc pilots to "help save the company." Then it will be our turn again. I would just as soon not start down that slippery slope.

Unfortunately, many pilots would rather deride me for pointing out the trend than accept the painful truth facing our profession. Luckily, there are many pilots who see the writing on the wall, and are willing to fight, yes, for the benefit of their families, but also to protect the gains won by those who came before us. I guess it remains to be seen who will prevail.

 

[duckman]

Re: AMEN Yahtz!

You're right on as usual - I knew you were a bright guy for going to UGA! - and the Sugar Bowl! I know everyone's disgruntled - we all have buddies or ourselves that went from a comfortable life to food stamps just like that. You have two choices - roll with the punches, find a positive alternative and do the best you can or stress out complaining and give yourself and your family an ulcer or heart attack. I choose the happy side. If my class date for SWA doesn't come for years or not at all, I'll go do something I love but doesn't pay as well - work for the local humane society with all the wonderful but unfortunate dogs - and have a much less stressful and very rewarding job even though the pay and aviation benefits wouldn't be there...but my wife and my family would get by. It's all how you look at the world and how you react. I'll cheer on SWA/FO any day and do the best I can keeping my fingers crossed for a class date soon!

Aloha,
Les

What ever works Les....don't forget the singing of KumBaYa in there somewhere???



Support and pray for our troops

 

[Ty Webb]

Why? So you can tell me about your desk job? Or, if by some big stroke of luck, you are recalled, so you can tell me all about the wonders of MD80 school, and reserve life? Get real.

Better yet, talk to me when you're 60.

When I am 60, I will still be me, and you will still be you, and that will largely govern how happy we are, not who has the bigger boat or nicer condo(s).

You tried like hell for my number, and couldn't get it. You'll want it again soon.

Man, you really are a horse's ass, aren't you? I never applied to Delta, thank you.

Don't act like it was your choice to go to airtran...

You just don't get it, do you? Most of us don't feel like we somehow "settled". . . . . Some of us are happy to have a good schedule, nice equipment, decent pay, and not have to work with too many self-righteous a-holes . . . .

You didn't get hired at Delta. If you had, you would have accepted.


See above.

Your post was as insensitive as it was inaccurate.

You fired first with your cheap shot.

Suffice it to say, I am using my furlough as an opportunity to build for the future, and thus far, it has been productive and even rewarding. .

That's nice. like I said, we all make our choices.

if you think that Home Depot is all a pilot can do on a furlough, you must have a very low opinion of your own non-aviation skills.

I have done the things that you are only learning about right now, working on your MBA, pal. I chose to sit out the last aviation downturn, so you;re not doing anything I haven't already done. I came out of it a little more humble, and perhaps you will, too.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Originally posted by FlyDeltasJets

Man, you really are a horse's ass, aren't you? I never applied to Delta, thank you.

You applied to airtran and Midwest, but didn't apply to Delta? Curious.


You just don't get it, do you? Most of us don't feel like we somehow "settled". . . . . Some of us are happy to have a good schedule, nice equipment, decent pay, and not have to work with too many self-righteous a-holes . . . .

You expect me to believe that you wouldn't have accepted employment at Delta if it had been offered?


You fired first with your cheap shot.


I don't remember any cheap shot. I have always tried to refrain from personal attacks on this board. You, apparently, did not hold yourself to the same standard.

I wrote that some people are undercutting our salaries. That is a fact, not a cheap shot. It is ironic to me that you seem more concerned with a perceived slight to you than you are with the effect that current mgt policies are having on our profession. After all, wasn't it you who earlier in the thread pointed out that some major pilots will be paid less than national pilots. What do you think that will lead to. Hint: It ain't a payraise for you. I would expect more people to be concerned about that. Instead, many prefer to insult.




I have done the things that you are only learning about right now, working on your MBA, pal. I chose to sit out the last aviation downturn, so you;re not doing anything I haven't already done. I came out of it a little more humble, and perhaps you will, too.

You have no idea what I'm doing, and I don't feel the need to explain.

Also, perhaps you could refrain from name-calling? Normally the first to resort to such measures is the one with the weakest argument. I prefer to keep my discussions centered on this industry and the problems is faces. If you would prefer to name-call, insult, and get personal, you'll have to do it with someone else. I'll just put you on ignore.