USA Jet IS a lost Cause

[USA Jet Pilot]

Any Thoughts or feelings after todays snow job?

 

[N817AA]

What did they say today?

 

[pilotyip]

Business is bad, when business gets better the temporary cut back will be fixed. We are increasing our DC-9 staffing due to the addtion of another passenger DC-9, and to fill expected turnover.

 

[canadflyau]

"when business gets better"-PilotYip

I think I was looking for that to be defined yesterday, some sort of transparent benchmark or goal we all could see and work toward.

I also went to the meeting for them to gives us a report card and info on the health and future of USA Jet, in the end I hope our questions informed them more than they informed us.

 

[canadflyau]

As I understand the DC-9, they are adding a pax bird, but are using the engines off of one of the Cargo -30 birds to power it.

 

[pilotyip]

We did the same thing when we purchased our DC-9-10 191US (301ME) from Midwest Express, makes the new airplane a good deal.

 

[pilotyip]

No manning projections are based upon flight crew hours available per month, as long as you do not approach the airframe flying limit per month your ability to generate trips is predicated upon crews available. Since we are not approaching the limit of airframe flying on the cargo birds, it will not effect the needed crewmembers to operate cargo airplanes. However, the additional of another dedicated passenger bird will require another three crews to be available just to cover the passenger birds, i.e. more manning for the pax birds and an actual reduction in the crews available to fly cargo

 

[3M1900FO]

So Pilot Yip Hook Us Up Whats The Process To Get In Usa Jet

 

[pilotyip]

go to jsfirm.com and look for our ad when we start interviewing and hiring again, probably sometime next year.

 

[Country Wild]

So? How did the State of the Union Address go? You guys going to be around long term?

 

[asipilot]

Our pilot group is so demoralized that I don't think any of us take pride in our company anymore. I still take pride in the flying I do, but not the company I work for. USA Jet is just like all the other non scheds, the owners and management simply don't care how they affect people's lives. Obviously I'm still looking for work in the Detroit/Flint/Pontiac area if anyone knows of anything.

Thanks, J

 

[pilotyip]

As Mark Twain said, "The rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated”. Working in the on-demand business sucks. It has wild swings in the business cycle. It is the nature of the beast. The pay reduction sucks, but to get the same savings in dollars almost 30 pilot would have lost their jobs and another 10 Captains would have been bumped back in pay and seat to F/O. As business returns, pay will return, this was stated at the state of the union by Brian and Chris, just no date was given. USA Jet is a long-term player in my book, sound management, and a good business plan to diversify outside of the on-demand cargo and many things in the works to make this a better and stronger company. Our DC-9 are flying a lot, with Ameristar parking one of their 73’s and the canx of a 73 initial class; plus Zantop’s L-188’s collecting dust at YIP, there is a something promising on the horizon. Our passenger business had almost tripled in three years. Unhappy campers who bail out early will only know if they made the right move 5 years from now. Like the friends of mine who left North Central in 1973 for EAL, or left GM Corp for Braniff in 1978, or the pilot who left SWA for UAL in 2001.

 

[Everett Howe]

USA Jet is a long-term player in my book, sound management, and a good business plan to diversify outside of the on-demand cargo and many things in the works to make this a better and stronger company

Yip, somehow I get the notion here from the replies from JUS Pilots, that they didn't get that message from their management. The fact that a check airman has to correct the angle of mgmts sayings during a private meeting, on a public forum of all sorts, wouldn't make me all warm and fuzzy.

 

[2LT]

An impartial observation...

From the outside looking in I'll bet some of the,"...unhappy campers...," fall well outside the SWA to UAL type of analogy. Assuming a 1st or 2nd year F/O on the DA-20 doesn't break guarantee --which, if I'm correct, the vast majority haven't been-- they'll stand to gross approximately $26310./year plus whatever they might manage in per diem. Excluding per diem, they stand to net $1820./month minus whatever health care/401(K) deductions, etc. they elect.

So, assuming the above "unhappy camper," is it fair to categorize him/her as the same sort of person who would leave SWA for UAL back when it was unarguably for financial gain? Is somebody presumed guilty of bailing on their employer because they simply can't afford to work there any longer? The analogy is presumptuous. I'll bet those who bail on USA Jet are doing so not out of callous greed and/or personal financial gain. On the contrary, assuming they have bills to pay, they are probably doing it because they simply can't afford not to.

 

[knight]

Can't aford to quit. Can't aford to stay. Can't pay my car payment, insurance, electric bills. Getting bad credit. Who knows when we will get our pay back? Who knows when the pay will be cut next year by almost 25% again and for how long that time? Is this the new way of doing business?

 

[pilotyip]

There is no guilt associated with bailing, when a pilot leaves us for a better job, we wish them well, and thank them for a doing a good job for us. We use our industry contacts to help pilots gets interviews at places they might like to work. We know the on-demand business is not for everyone, for many it is a stepping stone. And no one will deny the experience of flying jets at a 121 air carrier is a good stepping stone. But pilots uniformly sometimes do not make good career decisions, they make decisions based upon for the wrong reasons. Such as "I will show them I do not need put up with this BS". Giving up senority at a viable company in pursuit of greener pastures, could be a bad move. I know of four first year DA-20 F/O's who will be getting pay raises next month when they move into the DC-9. I firmly believe this is temporary.

 

[Freight Dawg]

Hey Pilot YIP dude relax on the pro management stuff. I wonder how your owners can sleep at night in their nice houses with nice cars and fly around in their nice personel jets while eveyone goes with out. Dude thats just ain't right. It seems to me they dug the hole and now everyone else lies in it. I heard that the Mechnics took hits and the Broker side did as well. Are you guys doing that bad. Yo pilot dudes hope fully stuff will start looking up.

 

[Habib]

"We use our industry contacts to help pilots gets interviews at places they might like to work."

Are you serious, how can you say that, as long as you don't want to go to Kalitta, I guess, a place some way want to work.

You forgot to put this in your orginal statement, and the P.S. too.

 

[pilotyip]

Responses

Fr8dg, I would expect your response, after all this is a pilot board and anything that is posted as pro-mangement is debunked or blamed on kool aid drinkers. If you think that nice houses and nice cars are managment perks you would desire, you should attempt to get into management and get 8 days off a month maybe, no overtime, and your butt chewed on a regular basis.
Hab guy, there is no evidence, other than rumor, that there is a barrier at Kalitta big. I challenged our pilots to give me a name of one of our pilots who tried to get on a Kalitta and was turned down. No one has said anything yet.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

As Mark Twain said, "The rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated”. Working in the on-demand business sucks. It has wild swings in the business cycle. It is the nature of the beast. The pay reduction sucks, but to get the same savings in dollars almost 30 pilot would have lost their jobs and another 10 Captains would have been bumped back in pay and seat to F/O. As business returns, pay will return, this was stated at the state of the union by Brian and Chris, just no date was given. USA Jet is a long-term player in my book, sound management, and a good business plan to diversify outside of the on-demand cargo and many things in the works to make this a better and stronger company. Our DC-9 are flying a lot, with Ameristar parking one of their 73’s and the canx of a 73 initial class; plus Zantop’s L-188’s collecting dust at YIP, there is a something promising on the horizon. Our passenger business had almost tripled in three years. Unhappy campers who bail out early will only know if they made the right move 5 years from now. Like the friends of mine who left North Central in 1973 for EAL, or left GM Corp for Braniff in 1978, or the pilot who left SWA for UAL in 2001.

USA JET was built and maintained from Auto Industry dollars. Those dollars are no longer there. Ford and GM are in dire straits. It will probably take 3 to 5 years for these 2 companies to recover ( if they adopt sound business plans themseves). If USA JET is just now deciding to seperate themselves from Ford, in my opinion it is time to sit back enjoy your drink, listen to the band play and wait for the inevitable. Robbing Peter to pay Paul (taking one freight 9 out for one pax 9-10) smells of last minute desperation. USA should have went big 3 years ago like K AIR.

 

[Sameold]

I challenged our pilots to give me a name of one of our pilots who tried to get on a Kalitta and was turned down. No one has said anything yet.

-pilotyip

and that was the stupidist, most assignine request ever! what did you think someone would do in a room full of management, scratch that, the entire management team. "ah yes i went over to big kalitta and gave them my resume (management mentally notes this pilot who will never get promotions or advancement due to his disloyalty) and he looked at my resume until he got to usaj. then he made some b.s. about more time and to apply again later. when my friend went in to follow up he said in so many words they are not hiring from across the field to be a good neighbor and they don't want to miss trips from active aero." said the pilot.

what the heck do you think would happen to him. he puts it all out on the line in front of mgt with absolutely NO protections in place. you are drinking the koolaid, no pounding the koolaid, if you thought seriously someone would come forward and speak the truth in that atmosphere. the meeting was because their is no trust, no accountability, declining pay, losing bennies with no management response, with no end in sight. and might i add no end or goal/benchmark provided. only excuses to why they didn't go skin the ranks to the bare needed to keep the projected fleet flying. maybe paying unemployment was not a whole lot cheeper, ah thats a better answer.

you want answers, ask on here the anonymous forum, how many applied and even got a response for an interview? answer, my predidction: about 15 sent stuff and went over there, interviews granted: about 2, 1 was even hired.

We use our industry contacts to help pilots gets interviews at places they might like to work.

if this is true please admit that you have no clue what is going on or when pay will return and announce that you have another new title, that part won't be surprising, head of other airline recruitment. pass out surveys of where everyone on the property wants to work and start making phone calls. start arranging sponsors at fedex, ups, southwest. thew pilots will enjoy that.

I know of four first year DA-20 F/O's who will be getting pay raises next month when they move into the DC-9.

My math may be bad, but me thinks that the fo who goes to the 9 will not even make what he was making before the paycut on the da20. ok i just confirmed my math old da20fo pay 2800/mo new 9 fo pay 2570/mo. umm yeah a pay raise

 

[iaflyer]

Hab guy, there is no evidence, other than rumor, that there is a barrier at Kalitta big. I challenged our pilots to give me a name of one of our pilots who tried to get on a Kalitta and was turned down. No one has said anything yet.

Funny, you never asked me. And I know who is trying - of course I wouldn't say. You might be surprised at the people who call me - hint, it's not just the new-hire in the DA-20.

As for evidence - I suppose I could post the email from March that I got from our mgmt regarding hiring USA Jet guys... Of course, at JUS there wouldn't be any evidence.

iaflyer

 

[pilotyip]

No holding anyone back

USA Jet has never stopped anyone from going anywhere if that is what he or she wants to do. Look we even got rid of our Training Contract two years ago, so they are free to leave 2 months after getting hired, guy a pilot did in June. We wished him luck, and said if things do not work out give us a call you can come back as a DA-20 F/O if we are hiring. We have no non-compete agreement; we have never had pilot go to another non-sked, voluntarily. If someone comes to me and says do you know anyone at XYZ and they want to try to get an interview, I will do what I can. Now obviously I do not have inside stuff at FedEx, UPS, SWA, etc. We have guy leaving next week going to a major; there are no hard feelings about his leaving. We were glad he was here and he did a great job for us.

 

[Everett Howe]

We have guy leaving next week going to a major; there are no hard feelings about his leaving. We were glad he was here and he did a great job for us.

I hear he was recalled. Don't tell me you're trying to take credit for this.

My Impression is you're trying to sell a non-existent strategy or business plan. Someone said that JUS Mgmt has no goal/benchmark for returning pay to normal. How did they figure to cut pay in the first place? How about using that for returning pay? At least it would be something?

Someone said he can't afford to stay nor to quit. I can see that. It's hard to have enough seniority to hold a decent line and salary and then: Boom, gone. But you can't quit because you have to start all over somewhere else and that salary isn't just going to pay the bills. Been there done that. But at least my company at the time had the decency to tell me the cold hard thruth so I could make a decision.

JUS Mgmt. seems to be just waiting for some miracle to happen. Don't these guys have some businessplan? Or are they just poking in the fog?

This whole situation is just not right. I hope you guys find decent jobs elsewhere. Nobody needs to be treated like that.

 

[pilotyip]

Howe, not taking credit for anything, you are reading too much into a statement of fact. There is a bench mark for returning pay, but I do not know what that is, and I affraid mgmt does not want to make a promise that so and so will happen at this or that point and then not be able carry through at that time. We are getting busy and there are encouraging signs on the horizon. I remain as always optimistic. As far and mgmt in the fog, not true. 5 years ago automotive was nearly 100% of our business, the company now has another bunch of customers who are non-automotive, automotive as a % of our total business has dropped greatly, plus our growing passenger business will soon make up nearly 30% of our DC-9 flying. There are a lot of good things in the future. Our long-term pilot ranks are solid; pilots who have been here 8 or more years are not going anywhere.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Howe, not taking credit for anything, you are reading too much into a statement of fact. There is a bench mark for returning pay, but I do not know what that is, and I affraid mgmt does not want to make a promise that so and so will happen at this or that point and then not be able carry through at that time. We are getting busy and there are encouraging signs on the horizon. I remain as always optimistic. As far and mgmt in the fog, not true. 5 years ago automotive was nearly 100% of our business, the company now has another bunch of customers who are non-automotive, automotive as a % of our total business has dropped greatly, plus our growing passenger business will soon make up nearly 30% of our DC-9 flying. There are a lot of good things in the future. Our long-term pilot ranks are solid; pilots who have been here 8 or more years are not going anywhere.

"pilots who have been here 8 or more years are not going anywhere".

READ: "CANT GO ANYWHERE".

 

[pilotyip]

Don't vs can't

Good to hear from Vortex, your input is always insightful. But you should read that as don’t want to go anywhere . I would be surprised if 3 in the top half of our seniority list went anywhere in the next year. On the botom half that is another story, this still a great training ground for your next job. I beleive we have a lot our younger and newer pilots that are potential major airline pilots in the future. They are taleneted, pleasant to be around, and quick learners. We are thankful they work for us and we wish them the best when they move on after getting their 1000 hrs of 121 TJ PIC.

 

[Buckeye]

The current situation is not looking very promising, I have taken a 24.5% pay cut. If manning on the falcon goes out of balance then you all will shift Falcon captians to the right seat. If they don't keep their pay then they will have taken an over all 51% pay cut...is going to happen or not happen. If I am lucky I won't, but what about the guys that do? I can't wait to come back and see the DVD....of course if they edit Brian out then F&*% it I won't waste my time.

 

[pilotyip]

Buckeye I am detecting negative vibes. This is temporary and have to believe so the force will be with you. The company in spotty employment history has never taken away a Captain's seat pay during layoff. Just about the time you were hired we had 24 DC-9 Captains and 10 F/O's. No one ever lost seat pay. Now to get the same savings we got with the cutback in guarantee by laying off and moving seats, 28 pilot would gone on the street back to the fall of 2001 hire dates in the DC-9 and December of 2004 in the DA-20. 10 Captains would have been bumped back to F/O. Go see Fred he will show you the plan B.

 

[pilotyip]

Thanks

Thanks for the tips Digital hopefully this will remove some of the rumored barrier that exisits between the two companies. BTW on pay, we had one DC-9 Capt pull in over $11K last month, plus we had some who also made as you say. It is the airline business you rolls the dice and look at the numbers