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US Wholly's sold out

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Beavis

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Posts
102
Siegal says the WO's will be liquidated, possibly...and U is "getting out of the turboprop business." ALG and PDT have pilots on furlough, while U starts another WO!!! Nice......thanks ALPA!! Thanks for protecting my job! All the guys at the 3 WO's....Good luck. I know many people at all companies, what an awesome bunch of guys. Peoples lives and careers are going down the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ter, so some mainline guys can get jobs flying planes they didnt want to fly anymore in the first place!! What an industry!
 
I left ALG after 10 years and a comfortable seniority bcause I saw the light at the end of the tunnel....and determined it was an oncoming train.

For the time I was there it was always "RJ's just around the corner" or "Flow-Thru just around the corner". I got tired of waiting for whatever was "just around the corner". I got tired of being treated as the bast**d step-child of USAirways by it's management and it's pilots.

If mainline pilot's had any sense of fairness they would fight against this happening. They are taking jobs from fellow pilots within the same union and the same company. If ALPA was truly for every member equally they would put a stop to this.

But no. The "Brotherhood of ALPA" is a nice comfortable myth. The reality is that pilot groups within ALPA will eat their young. And pilots within a particular group will screw their own in the name of seniority.

Just look at how USAir's pilots kept their 300+ furloughs on the street for years all the while freely picking up time greater than guarantee with the union's blessing.

ALPA is fantastic for the legal, medical, and contract resources and is worth every penny of my dues for those reasons. But ALPA cannot truly call itself a single Union of Pilots unless every member is treated with the same level of fairness - whether they are a 767 Captain or a Dash-8 FO.

I am truly sorry to see this happen. ALG, PDT, and PSA are truly great companies to fly for and it's pilot's are as professional and dedicated as any mainline pilot. As one who is looking from the "other side of the fence" now I see that it is just a matter of seats.

Whether it's a 767 or a Dash -8 there is no difference. You learn the airplane, it's limitations, the rules that apply and you do your best as a professional to get your passengers to thier destination as safely and comfortably as possible.

Best Of Luck.
 
Hey Beavis,
I feel your pain. That sucks about Mid Atlantic and US selling the wholly owns downstream.

I am a furloughed US guy and I had been at the commuters for 8 yrs. I have sadly seen both sides. Hey it sucks to see mgmt use this 9/11 tragedy to their advantage. I am all for giving the rjs to the wholly owned....We should all be considered on the same team.

However, I hope you understand that as a furloughed mainline guy, I should have some rights to fly an RJ. For is it fair to grow the regionals wholly owned or not, and have mainline guys on the streets? just the flip side of the coin. thats all.

Lets hope something good comes out of it all.

I had read on a different thread that comair is giving preferential treatment to the w/o furloughed guys for hiring.
I replied on that thread stating thats great but is it fair? Heck, shouldnt all alpa furloughed guys get the same treatment? Especially the furloughed DL guys? maybe they are. Afterall we helped comair pilots during their strike with the strike fund and jumpseat rights.

I agree with you ATA75Pilot

Are you guys hiring?

Thats all I can think of without having my first cup of coffee yet.
Good Luck to all of us
:cool:
 
AJWick...

My condolences on your furlough situation...no way around it...it most defintely sucks and I hope you get the opportunity to get back into the cockpit soon.

Most of my freinds have lost thier flying positions (many of them at USAirways) for God knows how many years and I'm still flying at ATA. Go figure...never would have thought that would happen.

ATA is starting back in the hiring mode but it is pretty limited..I think 8 guys in the first round. We actually need approximately 90 with the growth and deliveries this year but I don't see them bringing on more pilots until this contract gets signed.

As far as USAir furloughs getting first crack at the RJ's at this new start-up operation....

We fought this since the early 90's with the mainline pilot group. We tried to secure a "flow-thru" agreement for years. As part of the agreement...flow-back was an option for times just as these to provide jobs for the furloughees at the regional level.

But no....we were seen as trying to secure a jet job without having "earned it". The one negotiator on our side was told to his face by mainline negotiators that "we didn't understand swept wing dynamics, or high speed operations, and that they needed to keep the door open for F-16 guys and such when hiring". That's a direct quote.

I never understood this. The WO's are USAirways. It is the same company that pays both mainline and WO paychecks. Whether you are flying a Dash or a 767 you are contributing to the same bottom line.

But we were always looked down on by mainline. I remember coming back to BWI from CLT on a mainline flight. I happened to be in uniform while walking down the jetway towards a couple flight attendants and the pilots talking at the doorway. One of the flight attendants saw me and started to say something and the other looked at her and said, " Oh....he's just Express". And with a wave of her hand they then went back to thier conversation as if I wasn't standing right there. Ouch. Not even a "Hey, how's it going?" from the pilot.

Oh well...sorry for the rant. My point I guess is that as much as you feel that you should have the first right at those RJ's I feel the pilot's at the WO's should have had first crack at a slot when U was hiring. They should also be the ones recieveing the RJ's. They earned it with decades of commitment to the success of USAir.

Now ALPA pilots with with seniority that ranges up to 20+ years of dedicated service to USAirways are going to loose thier jobs so mainline furloughees can fly an airplane that they didn't want to fly if the circumstances were different.

As they say...just my opinion.

Cheers....
 
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hang in there

I feel for you guys. Even in the worst of situations, something positive will happen. Hopefully sooner, rather than later. I wish you all the best.
-ChilliD
 
Can any ALG pilot please post the VARS message from 5/30. I listened to it and think it needs to be read by everyone involved. The "rest of the story" if you will. Thanks in advanced and hang tough WO pilots.

InclusiveScope
www.rjdefense.com
 
I'm sure they could come up with a solution that benefits BOTH the furloughed mainline guys as well as the regionals that are owned. All it takes is for someone to try to come up with something.
 
InclusiveScope-

Ask for and you shall receive-

HELLO, THIS IS THE ALLEGHENY MEC CODE A PHONE FOR MAY 30, 2002.



THE DELAY IN RECORDING THIS ANNOUNCEMENT WAS DUE TO THE COMPANY’S MEETING WITH THE NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE YESTERDAY, AND A SUBSEQUENT MEC CONFERENCE CALL LAST NIGHT.



THE MIXED MESSAGES SURROUNDING US AIRWAYS LETTER OF AGREEMENT / EXTORTION 81, CONTINUED TUESDAY MORNING, AT THE MAIN LINE ROAD SHOW HELD AT THE PHILADELPHIA AIRPORT MARIOTT. IN ATTENDANCE FROM ALLEGHENY WERE MEC CHAIRMAN REZA OSTADALI, GRIEVANCE CHAIRMAN RICK O’LEARY, AND SEVERAL ALLEGHENY PILOTS, ALONG WITH SEVERAL HUNDRED AIRWAYS EMPLOYEES. THE HOUR LONG PRESENTATION, FOLLOWED BY A QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION, WAS GIVEN BY AIRWAYS PRESIDENT AND CEO DAVID SIEGEL, WHO OUTLINED AIRWAYS’ ABYSMAL FINANCIAL CONDITION AND IT’S OPERATIONAL DYSFUNCTION, PARTICULARLY WITH REGARD TO IT’S LACK OF REGIONAL JET FEED. MR. SIEGEL OFFERED THE FOLLOWING STATISTICS REGARDING REGIONAL JET OPERATION BY AIRWAYS COMPETITORS. THESE NUMBERS REFLECT NOT ONLY CURRENTLY OPERATED REGIONAL JETS, BUT ALSO FIRM ORDERS FOR ADDITIONAL AIRCRAFT. CONTINENTAL EXPRESS: 374 DELTA: 930 AMERICAN AIRLINES: 393. AND US AIRWAYS, A DISTANT LAST, WITH ONLY 70 RJS CURRENTLY BEING FLOWN BY CONTRACT CARRIERS, AND IF LOA 81 IS EVER APPROVED BY THE ALPA PRESIDENT, AN ADDITIONAL 70 RJS WHO’S OPERATORS REMAIN UNKNOWN, HOWEVER MR. SIEGEL STATED THAT IT WAS HIS DESIRE TO PLACE THEM AT POTOMAC, AND STAFF THEM WITH AIRWAYS FURLOUGHEES.





AT THE START OF THE QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION THAT FOLLOWED THE PRESENTATION, CAPTAIN OSTADALI EXPRESSED HIS DISPLEASURE AND DISAPPOINTMENT, REGARDING COMMENTS MR. SIEGEL HAD MADE AT PREVIOUS ROAD SHOWS, WITH REFERENCE TO THE WHOLLY OWNED PILOTS ABILITY TO OPERATE REGIONAL JETS, AND THE SUPPOSED TECHNICAL SUPERIORITY OF AIRWAYS PILOTS. HE WENT ON TO GIVE THE ROOM AN OVERVIEW OF THE NEGATIVE ASPECTS OF LOA 81, AND WHY IT WAS UNFAIR TO THE ALLEGHENY PILOT GROUP. IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION POSED TO HIM BY CAPTAIN OSTADALI, MR. SIEGEL, CHARACTERIZED PIEDMONT’S COUNTER OFFER TO LOA 81 AS QUOTE: INADEQUATE, UN QUOTE, AND STATED THAT AIRWAYS HAD COME CLOSE TO MAKING A DEAL WITH PSA, HOWEVER THEY DIDN’T QUOTE: DELIVER WITH RATES END QUOTE, AND HE CHIDED ALLEGHENY FOR REFUSING TO EVEN COME TO THE TABLE. CAPTAIN OSTADALI THEN MADE IT CLEAR TO MR. SIEGEL THAT THE ALLEGHENY MEC HAD MERELY REJECTED LOA 81 IN IT’S CURRENT FORM, AND IT WAS NOT OPPOSED TO COMING TO THE TABLE WITH ALL OF THE PARTIES INVOLVED, IN AN EFFORT TO REACH A FAIR AND EQUITABLE SOLUTION TO THE JETS FOR JOBS PROGRAM, BUT TO SIMPLY BE PROVIDED A DOCUMENT AND TOLD TO TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT, WAS, AND IS, ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE.



OTHER AIRWAYS WORK GROUPS TOOK THEIR TURN QUESTIONING SIEGEL, EXPRESSING THEIR DISPLEASURE WITH PROPOSED PENSION CUTS TO CURRENT WORKERS AND RETIREES. MR. SIEGEL WAS ASKED BY A RAMP EMPLOYEE WHAT AIRWAYS MANAGEMENT’S FINANCIAL PARTICIPATION IN THE CONCESSIONS WOULD BE, AND HIS RESPONSE WAS MET FIRST, WITH JEERS AND BOOS, THEN THE WALKOUT OF 60 DISGRUNTLED EMPLOYEES. LATER AS THE MEETING ADJOURNED, MR. SIEGEL WAS ASKED WHY HE WOULDN’T SIMPLY ADD MORE THAN 70 ADDITIONAL RJS, TO WHICH RESPONDED: QUOTE: “THAT’S ALL THEY’LL LET ME HAVE” END QUOTE, (A REMARK WHICH CUTS TO THE CORE OF THE PROBLEM AT AIRWAYS: SCOPE LANGUAGE, DESTRUCTIVELY EMPLOYED, HAS BROUGHT THE COMPANY TO IT’S KNEES.) THE PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER RAN A STORY ON THE PHL MEETING IN IT’S MAY 29TH EDITION’S BUSINESS SECTION, WHICH MAY BE ACCESSED ON LINE AT WWW.PHILLY.COM.



IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECALL THAT AIRWAYS FIRST LOA 81 RELATED OFFER, WHICH REQUIRED THAT 100% OF NEW RJ JOBS WERE TO BE GIVEN TO AIRWAYS FURLOUGHEES, WAS MADE TO ANYONE WHO WOULD LISTEN; FROM THE WHOLLY OWNED SUBSIDIARIES TO THE CHEAPEST NON-UNION CARRIERS, AND WAS SOUNDLY REJECTED. DEVOID OF ANY REGARD FOR THE QUALITY OF JOBS THEY APPEARED TO ATTEMPT TO SECURE, THE AIRWAYS MEC AND NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE MADE THE ROUNDS. CONTRARY TO ALPA NATIONAL’S STATED GOAL TO RAISE THE BAR OF WAGES AND BENEFITS, THEY OPENLY SOLICITED CARRIERS WITH THE WORST PAY SCALES AND WORK RULES IN THE INDUSTRY. NEXT WAS THE 50% PLAN, WHICH MET THE SAME FATE.



A NUMBER OF WEEKS AGO, LOA 81 SURFACED AGAIN, THE ONLY SUBSTANTIVE DIFFERENCE BEING, THAT THIS TIME IT HAD BEEN ALLEGEDLY SIGNED BY AIRWAYS MANAGEMENT, AND THE AIRWAYS NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE, YET NO ONE HAS BEEN ABLE TO PRODUCE A COPY OF THE DOCUMENT.



NOW TO REPORT ON THE EVENTS OF YESTERDAY’S MEETING WITH THE COMPANY. MEC CHAIRMAN REZA OSTADALI, THE NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE, OUR ALPA ATTORNEY AND ALPA FINANCIAL ANALYST, MET WITH ALLEGHENY PRESIDENT KEITH HOUK, DIRECTOR OF FLIGHT OPERATIONS MICHAEL SCROBOLA, AND THE COMPANY ATTORNEY, AND WERE PRESENTED WITH A NUMBER OF PROPOSED CONCESSIONS. CONCESSIONS THAT ALLEGEDLY REPRESENT OUR SHARE OF THE COST SAVINGS WE ARE TO BEAR, TO AID IN THE MAIN LINE’S APPLICATION FOR A $1 BILLION DOLLAR FEDERAL LOAN.



THE COMPANY’S PROPOSAL SUGGESTS THAT WE AGREE TO IMMEDIATE REDUCTIONS TO OUR CURRENT DASH EIGHT PAY SCALES, REDUCED 401K PARTICIPATION BY THE COMPANY, FREEZING OF THE PENSION PLAN, THE REDUCTION OF OUR CURRENT PER DIEM RATE, THE REDUCTION OF OUR CURRENT SICK LEAVE ACCRUAL, AND AN INCREASE IN HEALTH PLAN PREMIUMS. THE EXACT NUMBERS OF THESE PROPOSED GIVE BACKS MAY BE OBTAINED FROM YOUR LOCAL COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVES.



OUR REQUEST FOR ALL OF THE FINANCIAL DATA RELEVANT TO ALLEGHENY AIRLINES INC, HAS YET TO BE HONORED. UNTIL SUCH TIME THAT WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXAMINE THAT DATA, THE MEC CANNOT CONSIDER ANY PROPOSAL.



LOCAL COUNCILS WILL BE HOLDING INFORMATIONAL MEETINGS IN THE NEXT DAYS AND WEEKS TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES. BE SURE TO CHECK THIS HOTLINE FOR THE LATEST INFORMATION.



COMAIR HAS IMPLEMENTED A PREFERENTIAL INTERVIEW PLAN FOR FURLOUGHED ALG PILOTS. CHECK OUR WEBSITE FOR APPLICATION DETAILS. THE MEC WISHES TO THANK COMAIR MEC CHAIRMAN JC LAWSON, AND THE ENTIRE COMAIR MEC FOR THEIR CONSIDERATION.


Pappy

Furloughed from AAA 12/01
Furloughed from ALG 06/02
Next???
 
Solution

Here's my solution:

Give Mid Atlantic 70 RJ's and get most of the Mainline guys and gals off furlough. Once that is agreed to, have the mainline MEC get rid of their g$dd$mned archaic scope language and let the WO's swap their current fleet for RJ's 1 for 1. Mainline pilots get to fly again, and the US airways passengers are happy because they don't see a big spinny thing on each wing.

Yeah, if you add 70 aircraft to Express (at Mid Atlantic) that would mean that the WO's would lose some routes. But if that is spread around then that's better than losing them all as our leases expire. Heck, why not use some of the new RJ's to feed Mainline out west where we suck. That way nobody loses a job and we grow.

This way we can all share (mainline and expres) in the pain that is US Airways, and it is not one group that gets all the shafting.

Just my opinion.

Skeezer
 
Solution for US Air group

Stop contracting out US Air flying to mesa, t-states, colgan and Chat... Why expand them when we need to preserve the jobs here within US Air group. Stop the contract carriers expansion and preserve jobs here (PDT, ALG, PSA and Mainline)
 

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