US Wholly's sold out

[sleepy]

Re: Solution for US Air group

Stop contracting out US Air flying to mesa, t-states, colgan and Chat... Why expand them when we need to preserve the jobs here within US Air group. Stop the contract carriers expansion and preserve jobs here (PDT, ALG, PSA and Mainline)

Look no further than the bottom line and you will see why they continue to contract this flying out: Mesa and their kind will work less!

 

[TWA69]

I think that Midatlantic is a good idea if, and only if you preserve jobs. If you are bringing mainline jobs back then the people at the WO's should not be furloughed. it's not right to furlough one group so you can provide jobs to another. Just my 2 cents.

 

[fatburger]

Here's an idea--

The 3 WO's already have a combined seniority list. Why not combine the Furloughess and the 3 WO's into one list under MAA?
Then we have the elusive flow through to mainline and all WO furloughees are recalled.

Before you blast me, let's look at a couple of things:

Both sides can make a case for who's been flying who's routes till the cows come home. I'm tired of it. What's done is done!!

ALPA and U management dropped the ball years ago by not negotiating rj's and a flow through. We all know this!!

Sept. 11th changed a lot of things in this industry.

Dave Siegel has said "We are getting out of the turboprop business!"

If we know these things already, why can't we work towards a solution that takes care of the mainline furloughees and the WO's at the same time. I'd rather see jets go to the WO's rather than the contract carriers. Whether we like it or not, we are all in a very tough situation with little bargaining power against management. We know what they want to do so let's be proactive and try to work this mess out so everying can have a job and a future.

Fatburger

 

[Tim47SIP]

I'm cornfused?
Two years ago, mainline sued US management for the starting of Patomac due to the fact that US management was creating an alter ego airline. The courts ruled against management and Patomac was dropped. Why doesn't the WO's sue US management in the same fashion as this is against their contract.

AJWick- "However, I hope you understand that as a furloughed mainline guy, I should have some rights to fly an RJ. For is it fair to grow the regionals wholly owned or not, and have mainline guys on the streets? just the flip side of the coin. thats all."

You Sir need a wake up call! Two wrongs dont make a wright. I fully aggree that you should be flying something for mainline or the WO, but not at the expense of your fellow pilots. Taking their place on the line because you think the flying is yours, is flat wrong. Any route that the company takes from mainline and transferes to the WO's is a different story as I fully understand that the company will grow the RJ fleet at the expense of the mainline guys - This should be stopped.

The us mainline guys with their screwed up scope has helped (not the sole problem, but one of the main problems) bring down US as a company and they still wont budge. Remember, these are the smart guys, the ones with the degrees (obviously no regional guy can have a degree-matter of fact, I can't think of one individual where I work that dosn't have a degree - I guess that MAS on my diploma really stands for Must Act Stupid!). I guess they havent figured out how to take the blinders off of thier faces.

I just hope that the rest of the industry pays close attention to what is happening here so they know what not to do. This has got to be one of the most blatently dishonest and unprofessional things I have ever witnessed other than the last administration.

 

[chillidawg]

Question

Tim-
As you stated: "...as I fully understand that the company (USAir) will grow the RJ fleet at the expense of the mainline guys - this should be stopped."

Do you mean that the company should not get anymore RJ's for the benefit of the mainline guys? Or do you mean that management get more RJ's and have mainline (and WO's possibly) fly them?

IMHO, RJ's are going to be part of the commercial airline future. Like it or not.

-ChilliD

 

[Tim47SIP]

I mean that any flying mainline is loosing to the WO's should stay in mainline and new RJ's can be flow by them. Any feeder routes that the WO's were flying should stay with them, not be replaced by mainline guys. Instead of me for me and all for me, how about one for all and all for one.

 

[chillidawg]

Agreed.

-ChilliD

 

[AJWick]

Hey Tim

I agree with you. What I meant by having rights to fly the RJS is simply that I too should have the opportunity to fly but not at the expense of our wholly owned furloughees.

But all for one and one for all doesnt seem to be the case at ALPA.
Mainline or Regional.

I am still disappointed that Comair is giving preferential hiring to the usair express w/o furloughees. Why not all the alpa furloughees? Just curious? Did the comair guys forget that we alpa members helped with the strike fund and offered jumpseat priviledges during their time? Hey it may not have been much but it was some kind gesture we offered and I was hoping the favour would be returned.

Good Luck to us all.

 

[Tim47SIP]

AJWick wrote:
"I am still disappointed that Comair is giving preferential hiring to the usair express w/o furloughees. Why not all the alpa furloughees? Just curious? Did the comair guys forget that we alpa members helped with the strike fund and offered jumpseat priviledges during their time? Hey it may not have been much but it was some kind gesture we offered and I was hoping the favour would be returned. "

I think It's a little more complicated than that. First, Comair guys are very greatfull to you guys for all of your support. I know I would be. Second, I am sure Comair would hire you in a heart beat, but I am not sure that you would want to give up your seniority number. All of those guys at the WO's that are getting hired are giving up their seniority numbers to fly for Comair. I also know that this is the same requirement here at ASA with the exception of the Delta guys as we are all basically Delta.

Comair probably figures that the mainline furloughed guys would not want to give up thier number and thus not solicit any of them. Additionally, no one really knows how long this slump will last, could be only a few more months or even years. But it would be feasibly uneconomical (as you already know) to train mainline guys just to loose them in the near future. Maybe an agreement to stay three years at Comair and then go back or something like that would help. But as you know, that is probably not in ALPA's agenda to try to negotiate with management. Probably worth a try, dont you think! Tim.

 

[skydiverdriver]

Rj's are not the future of commercial aviation, they are it's present. USAirways is a bit behind on this, due to myopic scope limits in it's mainline contract. The reason Delta is doing so well is because they had, until recently, no numerical limit on rj's. Now, whoever restricts rj's may end up like USAir. Whoever embraces them, will be the winner, and have more jobs for EVERYONE.