Tim47SIP
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chillidawg
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AJWick
No longer mr. mom!
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Hey Tim
I agree with you. What I meant by having rights to fly the RJS is simply that I too should have the opportunity to fly but not at the expense of our wholly owned furloughees.
But all for one and one for all doesnt seem to be the case at ALPA.
Mainline or Regional.
I am still disappointed that Comair is giving preferential hiring to the usair express w/o furloughees. Why not all the alpa furloughees? Just curious? Did the comair guys forget that we alpa members helped with the strike fund and offered jumpseat priviledges during their time? Hey it may not have been much but it was some kind gesture we offered and I was hoping the favour would be returned.
Good Luck to us all.
I agree with you. What I meant by having rights to fly the RJS is simply that I too should have the opportunity to fly but not at the expense of our wholly owned furloughees.
But all for one and one for all doesnt seem to be the case at ALPA.
Mainline or Regional.
I am still disappointed that Comair is giving preferential hiring to the usair express w/o furloughees. Why not all the alpa furloughees? Just curious? Did the comair guys forget that we alpa members helped with the strike fund and offered jumpseat priviledges during their time? Hey it may not have been much but it was some kind gesture we offered and I was hoping the favour would be returned.
Good Luck to us all.
Tim47SIP
Serving for the USofA
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2001
- Posts
- 1,157
AJWick wrote:
"I am still disappointed that Comair is giving preferential hiring to the usair express w/o furloughees. Why not all the alpa furloughees? Just curious? Did the comair guys forget that we alpa members helped with the strike fund and offered jumpseat priviledges during their time? Hey it may not have been much but it was some kind gesture we offered and I was hoping the favour would be returned. "
I think It's a little more complicated than that. First, Comair guys are very greatfull to you guys for all of your support. I know I would be. Second, I am sure Comair would hire you in a heart beat, but I am not sure that you would want to give up your seniority number. All of those guys at the WO's that are getting hired are giving up their seniority numbers to fly for Comair. I also know that this is the same requirement here at ASA with the exception of the Delta guys as we are all basically Delta.
Comair probably figures that the mainline furloughed guys would not want to give up thier number and thus not solicit any of them. Additionally, no one really knows how long this slump will last, could be only a few more months or even years. But it would be feasibly uneconomical (as you already know) to train mainline guys just to loose them in the near future. Maybe an agreement to stay three years at Comair and then go back or something like that would help. But as you know, that is probably not in ALPA's agenda to try to negotiate with management. Probably worth a try, dont you think! Tim.
"I am still disappointed that Comair is giving preferential hiring to the usair express w/o furloughees. Why not all the alpa furloughees? Just curious? Did the comair guys forget that we alpa members helped with the strike fund and offered jumpseat priviledges during their time? Hey it may not have been much but it was some kind gesture we offered and I was hoping the favour would be returned. "
I think It's a little more complicated than that. First, Comair guys are very greatfull to you guys for all of your support. I know I would be. Second, I am sure Comair would hire you in a heart beat, but I am not sure that you would want to give up your seniority number. All of those guys at the WO's that are getting hired are giving up their seniority numbers to fly for Comair. I also know that this is the same requirement here at ASA with the exception of the Delta guys as we are all basically Delta.
Comair probably figures that the mainline furloughed guys would not want to give up thier number and thus not solicit any of them. Additionally, no one really knows how long this slump will last, could be only a few more months or even years. But it would be feasibly uneconomical (as you already know) to train mainline guys just to loose them in the near future. Maybe an agreement to stay three years at Comair and then go back or something like that would help. But as you know, that is probably not in ALPA's agenda to try to negotiate with management. Probably worth a try, dont you think! Tim.
Last edited:
skydiverdriver
Senior Member
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- 869
Rj's are not the future of commercial aviation, they are it's present. USAirways is a bit behind on this, due to myopic scope limits in it's mainline contract. The reason Delta is doing so well is because they had, until recently, no numerical limit on rj's. Now, whoever restricts rj's may end up like USAir. Whoever embraces them, will be the winner, and have more jobs for EVERYONE.
Dragonbravo
Chicks dig beta.
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AJWick
No longer mr. mom!
- Joined
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hey dragon,
I've been at the regionals 8 yrs and I voted on flow thru with my previous carrier. I am all for it. I however only worked at usair for only two years. Sadly, no flow thru existed there. But hey thats the way it goes I guess. I didnt get a chance to vote on that.
As far as making my bed and sleeping in it. If the rj's dont come to usair, we will all be sleeping on the same bed! LOL
I am sorry for you as a w/o guy...I know LOA 81 is screwed up and far from perfect. I hope something good comes out of all this, but I know it will upset one group while satisfying another.
When I said " rights to fly an RJ", I simply meant shouldnt we all furloughees get the opportunity to fly them but not at the cost of furloughing someone at another carrier. Thats all. I just didnt think it would be fair to have guys furloughed anywhere mainline or express and then increase flying at other carriers with RJs doing the same route that we did on an F100 or Dash 8.
So dont take it personally.
Good Luck to you and all the furloughees out there.
I've been at the regionals 8 yrs and I voted on flow thru with my previous carrier. I am all for it. I however only worked at usair for only two years. Sadly, no flow thru existed there. But hey thats the way it goes I guess. I didnt get a chance to vote on that.
As far as making my bed and sleeping in it. If the rj's dont come to usair, we will all be sleeping on the same bed! LOL
I am sorry for you as a w/o guy...I know LOA 81 is screwed up and far from perfect. I hope something good comes out of all this, but I know it will upset one group while satisfying another.
When I said " rights to fly an RJ", I simply meant shouldnt we all furloughees get the opportunity to fly them but not at the cost of furloughing someone at another carrier. Thats all. I just didnt think it would be fair to have guys furloughed anywhere mainline or express and then increase flying at other carriers with RJs doing the same route that we did on an F100 or Dash 8.
So dont take it personally.
Good Luck to you and all the furloughees out there.
AJWick,
Frankly I'm appalled that you think you have the right to fly an RJ at a company whos senority list you are not on.
You accepted the risk of leaving your past job for the bottom of the list at Airways. Sorry, but $hit happends. Your company has furloughed you and now you have the right to take someone elses job because ???
I know it sucks, and I would be in favor of furloughed Airways pilots being hired by WO's as long as those WO's were not furloughing their pilots to make room. Total BS.
The pilots of WO's are no less deserving of the jobs they have than the pilots of mainline. This is a horrible deal and will only make worse the whipsawing that has taken over our industry.
Good luck, I have a close freind who is furloughed from Airways, but he has accepted his fate and found employment that doesn't but someone else in the position he finds himself in now.
See yah.
Frankly I'm appalled that you think you have the right to fly an RJ at a company whos senority list you are not on.
You accepted the risk of leaving your past job for the bottom of the list at Airways. Sorry, but $hit happends. Your company has furloughed you and now you have the right to take someone elses job because ???
I know it sucks, and I would be in favor of furloughed Airways pilots being hired by WO's as long as those WO's were not furloughing their pilots to make room. Total BS.
The pilots of WO's are no less deserving of the jobs they have than the pilots of mainline. This is a horrible deal and will only make worse the whipsawing that has taken over our industry.
Good luck, I have a close freind who is furloughed from Airways, but he has accepted his fate and found employment that doesn't but someone else in the position he finds himself in now.
See yah.
Tim47SIP
Serving for the USofA
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ATRCA wrote
" Good luck, I have a close freind who is furloughed from Airways, but he has accepted his fate and found employment that doesn't but someone else in the position he finds himself in now. "
Could you please let me know what you are talkning about?? I can't figure out what you are tying to say. Thanks, Tim.
" Good luck, I have a close freind who is furloughed from Airways, but he has accepted his fate and found employment that doesn't but someone else in the position he finds himself in now. "
Could you please let me know what you are talkning about?? I can't figure out what you are tying to say. Thanks, Tim.
Dragonbravo
Chicks dig beta.
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- 119
Flow Back
AJ,
Exactly, you did not sign a flow thru. Which means NO flow back. Sorry, that's the way it works. You made your bed, now sleep in it. If Dad had signed up for a flow thru, OR RJ's years ago, we would not be in this predicament. The furloughed mainline pilots would have their security and things would be better in the first place because of the increased traffic from the RJ's. So why is it that USAir can only have the RJ's? Everybody else has their express carriers fly them. And why hide behind a Alter Ego Carrier to get them?
AJ,
Exactly, you did not sign a flow thru. Which means NO flow back. Sorry, that's the way it works. You made your bed, now sleep in it. If Dad had signed up for a flow thru, OR RJ's years ago, we would not be in this predicament. The furloughed mainline pilots would have their security and things would be better in the first place because of the increased traffic from the RJ's. So why is it that USAir can only have the RJ's? Everybody else has their express carriers fly them. And why hide behind a Alter Ego Carrier to get them?
FlyComAirJets
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2002
- Posts
- 323
AJ,
Comair pilots are well aware of and grateful for the level of support provided by ALL of the USAirways pilots during last year's strike. There is one key point that you need to be aware of; just like every other airline that I know of, pilots do not hire pilots. Management does the hirin' and management does the firin'.
At Comair there are two factions at odds over the hiring process. On the one hand, you have the flight school contingent who want to hire primarily (or perhaps, exclusively) very low time pilots from the Academy. While not particularly "seasoned," if they get through the training process, they do very well especially in light of all the hiring being done in the late 90s by other carriers.
On the other hand, there is the chief pilots' office who used to do the hiring up until the early 90s. They tended to favor pilots with previous 121/135 experience and military helo pilots. A look at the seniority list for many years was a who's who of failed regional airlines and a fair representation of every chopper squadron in the military (or so it seemed). These people did very good jobs, too. Hey, I was one!
Recent events have markedly increased the quantity and quality of applicants and so the tug-of-war between the two departments has heated up. Presently there seems to be a mix of these two types of new hires. One other factor, I am afraid that Pay For Training might rear its ugly head (that is just my unfortunate guess -- I could be wrong and sure hope that I am).
If I WAS in charge of doing the hiring, Delta pilots would be at the very top of my list followed by furloughed pilots at all the other carriers but again it is not our call. They should keep their seniority numbers. I do not buy into the argument about them leaving in droves thereby leaving the company high and dry because anyone that has ever seen a recall schedule knows that it is painfully slow and drawn out process with plenty of notification so the company can plan on boceau new hires (and wouldn't that just thrill the Academy folks?).
One last point, AJ, if you buy into the notion that somehow pilots hire pilots then aren't you in part responsible for the present mess of not hiring furloughed mainline pilots? Why didn't your MEC set up some type of preferred hiring program i.e. flow through or whatever, years ago? How long do the W.O.'s date back, hasn't it been a decade or so? Remember their PID intent -- USToo as in, we are USAir Pilots Too -- which mysteriously disappeared? Did you ever speak up or do ANYTHING except lament the current state of the industry?
Comair pilots are well aware of and grateful for the level of support provided by ALL of the USAirways pilots during last year's strike. There is one key point that you need to be aware of; just like every other airline that I know of, pilots do not hire pilots. Management does the hirin' and management does the firin'.
At Comair there are two factions at odds over the hiring process. On the one hand, you have the flight school contingent who want to hire primarily (or perhaps, exclusively) very low time pilots from the Academy. While not particularly "seasoned," if they get through the training process, they do very well especially in light of all the hiring being done in the late 90s by other carriers.
On the other hand, there is the chief pilots' office who used to do the hiring up until the early 90s. They tended to favor pilots with previous 121/135 experience and military helo pilots. A look at the seniority list for many years was a who's who of failed regional airlines and a fair representation of every chopper squadron in the military (or so it seemed). These people did very good jobs, too. Hey, I was one!
Recent events have markedly increased the quantity and quality of applicants and so the tug-of-war between the two departments has heated up. Presently there seems to be a mix of these two types of new hires. One other factor, I am afraid that Pay For Training might rear its ugly head (that is just my unfortunate guess -- I could be wrong and sure hope that I am).
If I WAS in charge of doing the hiring, Delta pilots would be at the very top of my list followed by furloughed pilots at all the other carriers but again it is not our call. They should keep their seniority numbers. I do not buy into the argument about them leaving in droves thereby leaving the company high and dry because anyone that has ever seen a recall schedule knows that it is painfully slow and drawn out process with plenty of notification so the company can plan on boceau new hires (and wouldn't that just thrill the Academy folks?).
One last point, AJ, if you buy into the notion that somehow pilots hire pilots then aren't you in part responsible for the present mess of not hiring furloughed mainline pilots? Why didn't your MEC set up some type of preferred hiring program i.e. flow through or whatever, years ago? How long do the W.O.'s date back, hasn't it been a decade or so? Remember their PID intent -- USToo as in, we are USAir Pilots Too -- which mysteriously disappeared? Did you ever speak up or do ANYTHING except lament the current state of the industry?
AJWick
No longer mr. mom!
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2002
- Posts
- 149
FLy comairjets
you make a good point. Yeah...i think pilots should hire pilots.
I am glad you are grateful for our support during your strike. I know you guys are and I have many friends over there.
Hey Drag...not sure what you were trying to say. But maybe its your lack of experience that all you can do is bash me as a furloughed mainline guy.
Lets see what mainline MEC's next move is. They have made a counter proposal. 315 plus jets to express. strings attached as always!
I need to make my bed and sleep in it. lol
you make a good point. Yeah...i think pilots should hire pilots.
I am glad you are grateful for our support during your strike. I know you guys are and I have many friends over there.
Hey Drag...not sure what you were trying to say. But maybe its your lack of experience that all you can do is bash me as a furloughed mainline guy.
Lets see what mainline MEC's next move is. They have made a counter proposal. 315 plus jets to express. strings attached as always!
I need to make my bed and sleep in it. lol
Dragonbravo
Chicks dig beta.
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2002
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- 119
skydiverdriver
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 869
Can't handle jets? We put our Academy grads direct into the right seat of an rj, and they seem to do okay. Of course, they have an experienced captain, but I'm sure your guys are no different. Personally, I think flying a jet is easier. I think anyone who says an experienced turboprop pilot cannot handle a jet is not based in reality. Good luck to you guys.
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