US to dump Mesa

[spitfire1500]

PHOENIX - More change is expected at US Airways Express.

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[url="http://bannerads.zwire.com/bannerads/bannerad.asp?ADLOCATION=4000&PAG=461&BRD=2305&LOCALPCT=100&AREA=410&VERT=13449&NAREA=410&barnd=9271"]http://bannerads.zwire.com/bannerads/bannerad.asp?ADLOCATION=4000&PAG=461&BRD=2305&LOCALPCT=100&AREA=410&VERT=13449&NAREA=410&barnd=9271[/url] Though passengers might not notice, alliances being forged, renewed and broken in the airline industry will change which regional operator is flying for major airlines.

On Monday, the chief executive officer of Mesa Air Group, a regional carrier flying largely for US Airways and America West, said he anticipated that US Airways will end its contract in bankruptcy court and those 50-plus planes have been allocated to other airlines.

In a conference call with investment analysts on Monday, Mesa CEO Jonathan Ornstein said he expected US Airways to drop Mesa's contracts in bankruptcy court and have Air Wisconsin fly up to 70 planes as US Airways Express.

If you listened to the conference yesterday Ornstein has pretty much given USAir a sj#t (reaffirm) or get off the pot message. USAir still has control whether to reaffirm or not part or all of the Mesa fleet. There are a bunch of clauses with the Delta and United additions, that if Airways keeps a few planes Mesa can deliver to Delta and United at a slow pace.
I'm not JO's biggest fan but I will give him credit for not allowing US Air to whipsaw him like he has done to others. Why pay them 125M when he already has a contract with America West. If theres a merger Mesa will still be there and if they dont he was smart to get out of any USAir deal with them (USAir) on their own.
Besides if America West and USAir merge and fail then Mesa's exposure to this deal if all the USAir planes were on board would kill the company.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

I can't believe I just read that! You should care about them now, because as long as people like you and others are willing to put up with those rates for flying a DC-9 equivilant, they're only going to get worse.

Hey ER, I agree. I know the pay sucks but whats a man to do? I simply grew tired of the bullsh!t that I had to do with my last 135 job. Really, I simply got so angry that I was going to get out of aviation b/c of the crap.

I know the pay sucks, but at least their is a future for me at CHQ. I went from $50 bucks and hour to 21.75 on a right seat of the 170. I was like your kidding me. but hey I get medical insurance, dental... didnt have any of that at my last job. ( make that all of my aviation jobs) So yeah the pay sucks but hey at least their is light at the end of the tunnel with this job.

 

[EMB170Pilot]

Dude, settle down.

Corpex has been a go-nowhere hole since 9/11; I know because I worked there. The best guys and gals in the business with nowhere to take their experience, no longevity pay increase, and shatty pay (both seats) at that. That pilot group has been beaten and abused, and its good to see people pay their dues in the j-ball and move on. That being said...

CHQ first officer pay sucks. Its better than alot of other places, and I want to be there just like you, but the pay still sucks. Don't justify it by saying you are just "building time". You are to be flying an airplane with a MTOW of what, 80K+ with 70 people on board...you aren't "building time anymore". That's for CFIs, parachute jumpers and traffic watch pilots.

You should care about the pay scales NOW, because in 12 months you'll be off probation and in 2007 the contract comes up. There's a good possiblity that you won't have upgraded by then, or maybe you will have gotten lucky and will have. Are you willing to fight for a fair FO wage then, or will you say "I lived off it, so you should too"? Will you be wrapped up in big hourly captain pay numbers, or will you make a small sacrifice to help those junior to you?

Agree

 

[SRJ]

What happens to Mesa if the merger goes through and everything falls under the USAIR name? Will Mesa loose the CRJ900 contract also?

 

[Captain Overs]

And why would this be positive news? You must be one of those guys who isn't too sharp and actually thinks that MESA pilots decide on what contracts to bid on and what block hour rates to charge airline partners. MESA pilots stopped Freedom which is quite possible the ONLY good thing any regional airline has done since 9/11. An airline losing a contract with a major partner is not really good news in my book. I hope everything works out for the MESA employees who will be displaced. I hope that something like this never happens to you.

No, but you decided to go work for that P.O.S. airline. You get what you pay for. Oh wait, that's Gulfstream.

 

[J32driver]

Using 50-seat captain rates, just picking years 3,5 and 8, AWAC pays $2, $1, and $2/hr more, respectively.

Yeah... after concessions. And don't mind the duty rig, trip rig, 150% pay for open time and Junior Assignments, and BLOCK OR BETTER!!! Oh yeah... how many days off a month do you get there at Mesa?

 

[OldManPilot]

Oh my God, are you all still asleep? Where have you all been the last 3 3/4 yrs? The industry has, and is continuing to change. We are watching pay at the Major airline level dropping like lead balloons and yet you still want to sit here and accuse each other of lowering the pay scale?

WAKE UP!!!!!!

It's not any pilot groups fault that pay rates across the board are down. It is simply a reaction to a changing industry, albeit not a good change, but exactly that, a change. We should stop waisting our time bashing each other and try to figure a way to work together to weather this storm.

This industry is in the middle of a massive overhaul, and unfortunately we are stuck at the lowest rung of that ladder hoping to see a favorable tomorrow at the end of the dark tunnel. For now, stand tall, be proud of who you are, and what you do, providing SAFE, reliable transportation in an world that that sees us as nothing more than
flying bus drivers. Perhaps one day the public will again see us as well trained professionals deserving of better than Trailways pay, but now is not that time.

 

[Afixedwing]

I really not compaining yet.

I'm just happy to be employed

Your just the kind of guy we need around when contract negotiations come next year.

 

[Vandelay]

Amazing how some companies get allll the credit. This is not the first time I've read how AWAC has kept the bar high and blah blah blah, but aside from FO rates they are only slightly better than Mesa.... Using 50-seat captain rates, just picking years 3,5 and 8, AWAC pays $2, $1, and $2/hr more, respectively.

And this is MESA we're talking about here, you know, the airline everyone loves to hate. Doesn't look like AWAC pays all that well after all, and I certainly wouldn't call it "maintaining the bar".

Yeah... when Mesa, Chitaco, and the likes gets trip rigs, duty rigs, min day pay, trip touch, and such, then we'll talk. Amazing how we just look at the hourly number... oh yeah... if you're comparing it to Mesa, they don't even get over block, so that hourly wage doesn't mean jack.

 

[Rottweiller]

Amazing how some companies get allll the credit. This is not the first time I've read how AWAC has kept the bar high and blah blah blah, but aside from FO rates they are only slightly better than Mesa.... Using 50-seat captain rates, just picking years 3,5 and 8, AWAC pays $2, $1, and $2/hr more, respectively.

And this is MESA we're talking about here, you know, the airline everyone loves to hate. Doesn't look like AWAC pays all that well after all, and I certainly wouldn't call it "maintaining the bar".

Not for long!! The concessionary contract was a condition to get the UAL flying which didn't pan out. Company and Union are already talking about putting back the old contract, old pay scales, retro pay, yarda, yarda, yarda.


May take a few months, but it's coming. Then see the bar moved up. Oh and a nice big fat retro check to!

 

[labbats]

I'd have to agree with everyone in that AirWis is twice the company Mesa is.


Pay scales are just a small barometer of how a company treats you. Work rules between the two are night and day. Try sitting in the penalty at ORD sometime for free. Mesa sucks.

 

[pwesterb2000]

Amazing how some companies get allll the credit. This is not the first time I've read how AWAC has kept the bar high and blah blah blah, but aside from FO rates they are only slightly better than Mesa.... Using 50-seat captain rates, just picking years 3,5 and 8, AWAC pays $2, $1, and $2/hr more, respectively.

And this is MESA we're talking about here, you know, the airline everyone loves to hate. Doesn't look like AWAC pays all that well after all, and I certainly wouldn't call it "maintaining the bar".

Getting your own crew room would be a good start for your credibility. That United Nations crew room in Dulles is a joke. The fact that all you bottom-feeders even try to put yourselves on the same level as a good regional is laughable... youre not persuading anyone in trying to justify your pathetic contracts

 

[Beer&Brauts]

Three words: ORD penalty box. Block or better alone has netted me 4+ more hours of pay then I would make working at Mesa. The Mesa and AWAC (even with concessions) contracts are comparing apples and oranges. That said, I will support the Mesa pilots full-heartedly when they fight for a real contract next time around.

 

[On Your Six]

Yeah, but Mesa will still be involved in the combined AWA/USAirways flying the CRJ-900 out of PHX and LAS. JO will still be working with his USAirways friends after the merger... It's going to be a weird relationship.

 

[DoinTime]

Yeah, but Mesa will still be involved in the combined AWA/USAirways flying the CRJ-900 out of PHX and LAS. JO will still be working with his USAirways friends after the merger... It's going to be a weird relationship.

Not if the current USAir scope provisions prevail in the combined company. They will all have to be parked. There is going to be a lot of redundant equipment that will be parked in the desert if this merger goes through on both the regional and mainline level. Just look at what happened to TWA's assets for proof of this.

 

[On Your Six]

Not if the current USAir scope provisions prevail in the combined company. They will all have to be parked. There is going to be a lot of redundant equipment that will be parked in the desert if this merger goes through on both the regional and mainline level. Just look at what happened to TWA's assets for proof of this.

Yeah, but never doubt JO's tricky ways - I'll bet you he already has contingency plans... Next thing you know he'll put ERJs with Hawaiian for a new Hawaiian Express operation out of Lihue. Never doubt that jacka$$ - he always covers himself....

 

[I.P. Freley]

Yeah... after concessions. And don't mind the duty rig, trip rig, 150% pay for open time and Junior Assignments, and BLOCK OR BETTER!!! Oh yeah... how many days off a month do you get there at Mesa?

I don't get any days off at Mesa, because I don't work there.

And "Yeah... after concessions"???? I thought the whole point was that AWAC was proud of keeping the bar high? How do concessions to Mesa-level and keeping the bar high coexist? 150% pay for junior assignments? That's something even the pilots at the least-loved companies enjoy. Some don't allow any junior assigning AT ALL, like the much-maligned CHQ.

Could it be that AWAC pilots accepted concessions to keep working, like many other pilot groups in this great business of ours? You can't blame everyone else when you're part of the problem.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Not for long!! The concessionary contract was a condition to get the UAL flying which didn't pan out. Company and Union are already talking about putting back the old contract, old pay scales, retro pay, yarda, yarda, yarda.


May take a few months, but it's coming. Then see the bar moved up. Oh and a nice big fat retro check to!

I hope you're right. Get back to us when you actually achieve these goals... In the meantime, you folded like everyone else, so get off your high horse.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Getting your own crew room would be a good start for your credibility. That United Nations crew room in Dulles is a joke. The fact that all you bottom-feeders even try to put yourselves on the same level as a good regional is laughable... youre not persuading anyone in trying to justify your pathetic contracts

You must be talking about someone else, I don't have any crew room in Dulles.

Let me guess, a high-and-mighty AWAC pilot who's superior to everyone else in the United system? When you'll happily work for Mesa wages, no less?

It'll be a real loss when the likes of you (as in YOU pwester, not the majority of AWAC people who don't have a chip on their shoulder) gets relegated to that definitely non-bottom feeding USAir system. If you think Dulles is bad, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

 

[Dr.Hwang]

Yawn!

 

[Dr.Hwang]

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah................................................

 

[I.P. Freley]

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah................................................

I believe I already used this argument, only to be shouted down.

 

[sewerpiper]

Yeah... after concessions. And don't mind the duty rig, trip rig, 150% pay for open time and Junior Assignments, and BLOCK OR BETTER!!! Oh yeah... how many days off a month do you get there at Mesa?

GOOD FREAKIN POINT!!! God there are some real idiots on here! I gotta stay off this board more!

 

[pilotpayne]

Wow ip what did awac do to you.

 

[Vandelay]

I hope you're right. Get back to us when you actually achieve these goals... In the meantime, you folded like everyone else, so get off your high horse.

Sad part is, even with the concessionary contract (current one), their contract is still better than most, including chitaco's contract. Oh yeah... and you never responded to the min day, duty rig, trip rig, trip touch, etc. ...and wasn't chitaco the ones that sold all their FO's out with their contract? ...it was pretty much, "hey guys, take this contract, yeah, you'll screw the FOs, but everyone on property will be CA, so it doesn't matter." It's nothing personal about chq, I know a lot of good guys over there, but if you're going to start picking on these guys at awac that are going through a pretty tough time, there's more to pick from at chq.

I'm not saying anyone is "maintaining" any 'bar' because none of us would be working at the regionals, but it's certainly not chitaco or whoever you're working for, maintaining it.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Wow ip what did awac do to you.

Nuthin. I know a half-dozen present and former AWAC pilots, but none of them drops this holier-than thou crap quite like the deluded people on this board. Can't call bull**** without being accused of being anti-AWAC, huh? Gotta allow them to blow sunshine up their own arses without comment, huh?

I'm not saying anyone is "maintaining" any 'bar' because none of us would be working at the regionals

First piece of truth I've seen yet as regards the maintaining of the bar by AWAC peeps.

Oh yeah... and you never responded to the min day, duty rig, trip rig, trip touch, etc. ...

You're quite right on that, since I don't know the specifics of every airline contract out there.

What I can do is provide you, oh mighty one, with a list of the "regional" airlines that have captain rates that exceed yours, equal yours, or in a very few cases are no more than one dollar an hour less than yours for 50-seat equipment at 5yr, 10yr, and 15yr captain rates... And this is by no means a comprehensive list:

Mesaba (beaten down by mother Northwest at every turn, to hear them tell it)
ExpressJet (no comment)
Chautauqua (cruddy pay, right?)
Pinnacle (also accused of being cruddy, right?)
PSA (mother company in severe trouble)
TransStates (another cruddy company according to many on flightinfo)
American Eagle (ridiculous contract tied to industry average)
Independence Air (mother company in more serious trouble even than USAir)
Skywest (NO UNION!!)
ASA (about to be sold?? to Skywest, as above, maybe?)
Comair (higher even with a pay freeze?)

And here's a hot one, ever heard of ERA Aviation? Their DASH 8 captain pay scales are equal to or better than yours, except at 15yr pay, in which case they're only a dollar an hour less than yours. IN A DASH 8!

Explain to me again how you're maintaining the bar when at more than 10 of your competitors' pay scales equal or better your own? And that's basically ALL the 50-seat operators except for Mesa, and you beat them by a measly dollar or two. Except for one pay scale wherein they're $2/hr shy of your rates, they'd be included in the above list.

Yes, I'm fixating on hourly rates. Yes, YOU'RE fixating on how Mesa sucks so bad. How is it that you can justify being equalled or beaten at the stated captain pay levels by basically every 50-seat operator, and yet still holler about how you're keeping the bar raised?

Does the term "glass houses" mean anything to you? AWAC is no doubt a great company, but an industry leader they most definitely AREN'T. How is it that you're so blinkered that you can't see the difference between reality and your own self-puffery? Either you voted for these concessions (or didn't quit out of disgust when the majority voted in these concessions) or you willingly took the job with these concessions in place, so you're in no position to pooh-pooh everyone else and create an imaginary world wherein you're the industry leader.

Get real.

 

[Pukindog]

I think this guy still doesn't understand that hourly numbers mean everything, but okay.

Wow ip what did awac do to you.

... maybe this guy was an awac washout? ...or maybe just sexually fustrated.

 

[I.P. Freley]

What, you don't want to accuse ME of washing out of the AWAC training? Or perhaps not making it through the interview that I neither sought nor accepted?

I figure it's only a matter of time before I'm accused of one or both... That's the only imaginable way that I might point out the hypocricy of the coexistence of the "bar raising"/"concession accepting" points of view??????

Imagine, trumpeting the "150% for junior manning" argument, when lowly CHQ doesn't allow ANY junior manning.... Or extension!

And let us all LOFF and LOFF at the oh-so-witty use of the term "chitaco"!! Oh, Lordie, there's no funnier comeback than that!!

 

[Blizzard7763]

Ok, I'm new to all of this.

I'm 21 years old, at a 141 school in Texas that hooks me up with an interview with Mesa when I am finished. I'll be done within the next month or two.

Just from lurking on this board for the last few weeks, I have had a few second thoughts about Mesa, and the airline industry in general.

From what I'm seeing, I can make as much money working for a gas station as I can working as an FO for Mesa. I've heard some horrible rumours about the Mesa contract, but don't know any specifics. Can anyone help me out on the details?

And I hate to hijack (is that a bad word in an aviation forum?) this thread, but I don't think it's worth starting a new one for a somewhat simple question.

Thanks for the help.

 

[BlackPilot628]

Ok, I'm new to all of this.

I'm 21 years old, at a 141 school in Texas that hooks me up with an interview with Mesa when I am finished. I'll be done within the next month or two.

Just from lurking on this board for the last few weeks, I have had a few second thoughts about Mesa, and the airline industry in general.

From what I'm seeing, I can make as much money working for a gas station as I can working as an FO for Mesa. I've heard some horrible rumours about the Mesa contract, but don't know any specifics. Can anyone help me out on the details?

And I hate to hijack (is that a bad word in an aviation forum?) this thread, but I don't think it's worth starting a new one for a somewhat simple question.

Thanks for the help.

Do your own reserch and try to play your cards the best you can. I'm not sure what your TT and Multi will be comlpeteing you course; but it may hold you back some. You can make more money at a Gas station, there is no doubt about that. If you can make it through first year FO pay, you can make it through anything! Good luck