US Military Cargo Outsourcing..Unbelievable!!!

[hvydriver]

Has anyone considered that US carriers may be subcontracting out the lift to these guys? DOD contracts as I understand them have to be awarded to US carriers. I know of an instance where a certain company that shall remain unnamed subcontracted these guys for some Afghan ops. Supposedly because the company "couldn't come up with the spare a/c" to do the trip. Irregardless of load, this does occur. Not saying its right, I'm just sayin....

 

[avbug]

Where did you come up with this crap!!! Any outsourcing to a foreign carrier is revenue that a US carrier could be collecting. Once again I had a friend that was told by my company that no US passport no interview because of AMC. So how do these Russians comply? Who said anything about wholly supported by the military.....? I hope your 6000 some odd other posts weren't the same type of drivel as this one.

How other contractors comply isn't really your concern. It's AMC's concern and the DoD's concern.

That one blames other contractors for Tradewinds et al going under, is ridiculous, and shows ignorance. US supplemental operators failing because they can't make it are cases of US operators failing because they can't make it. Period. The Department of Defense is under no obligation to shore these operators up. The operators aren't failing simply because they didn't get an extra military load they weren't capable of hauling.

Think about it. I'm sure there's a spark of intelligence in there somewhere that will kick in and bring you some enlightenment if you try hard enough.

 

[inline]

At the same time, Americans are calling for foreign investments and ownership of US Airlines. The use of Antonov jets to fly cargo out of CHS is simply testing the waters to go fully Corporate and negate sovereignty and loyalty to the US Constitution and its citizens (you and I). By electing Bush and installing CEO's like Cheney and Rumsfeld, who do we think we were really getting...??

One of the reasons to keep US Airlines controlled by US entities is CRAF. When America goes to war it needs aircraft readily available....

Well, US Corporations like United, Delta and FedEx never claimed to be loyal citizens of the United States, especially in the 21st Century. Is there anything in the constitution that binds a US Corporate Citizen such as UPS?

Why is Haliburtons Corporate HQ in Dubai?

And don't forget cabatoge, in action, through Ted Stevens Int'l airport in AK, brought to you by who else? Convicted Senator Ted Stevens... the camels nose has been under the tent....

Globalization has no sovereignty. While we are all going after instant gratification of the dollar, we are selling out our citizenship......

That is a good start... however, representation on CapHill to counter the powerful Corporate lobby and their PACs is in order....

What would you rather be, if you had to choose? Or said another way, which is more important? Being a kick a$$ consumer or being an American?

Groan. Here we go again: an unhinged Bush/Cheney/Haliburton conspiracy kook. Now go back to your regular NoBama worshipservices on MSNBC.

 

[inline]

That is what your fellow Americans want... Chinese made US Flags...

could've saved you some driving..

http://www.flagstoreusa.com/

I suppose the lack of American made flags is a Bush/Cheney/Haliburton conspiracy to you also.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Groan. Here we go again: an unhinged Bush/Cheney/Haliburton conspiracy kook. Now go back to your regular NoBama worshipservices on MSNBC.

Don't forget Rummy...! So do you want to groan or reply to Rummy's speech on 9/10/01. It is easier to just not deal with reality....

I suppose the lack of American made flags is a Bush/Cheney/Haliburton conspiracy to you also.

We'll they did elect them..... I suppose that means you too.....

 

[Be 23]

So do you want to groan or reply to Rummy's speech on 9/10/01.

I don't have a problem with him talking about the bureaucratic mess of the pentagon during contracting week. He praised the people and their dedication while vowing to improve processes that made their work difficult.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yeah, and how is that working out for us.... even the Generals were stunned....

BTW have you seen the BILLONS missing?

http://www.google.com/search?source...iraq+contractor+fraud&aq=6&oq=Iraq+contractor

 

[EuroWheenie]

Well, it's no secret that DHL has made a fortune flying USPS and FFV out of Bahrain and into IQ and AF. Kalitta et el would bring it as far as BAH, then DHL would take over flying the last leg into the war zones.

Those contracts were awarded to Kalitta, who subcontracted to DHL 'cause it was cheaper for them.

Money talks.

 

[Be 23]

Yeah, and how is that working out for us.... even the Generals were stunned....

BTW have you seen the BILLONS missing?

http://www.google.com/search?source...iraq+contractor+fraud&aq=6&oq=Iraq+contractor

I see your point: We need people like Dick Cheney in positions of responsibility in our county. When he was running Halliburton everything was fine, now they've moved to the other gulf and can't keep track of money. We need people like Rumsfeld out to stop bureaucratic inefficiency and provide some management expertise in government.

Sorry Rez, but Cheney and Rumsfeld can't run the corporations and the government at the same time. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I see your point: We need people like Dick Cheney in positions of responsibility in our county. When he was running Halliburton everything was fine, now they've moved to the other gulf and can't keep track of money. We need people like Rumsfeld out to stop bureaucratic inefficiency and provide some management expertise in government.

Sorry Rez, but Cheney and Rumsfeld can't run the corporations and the government at the same time. You can't have it both ways.

You're missing the point....

Rummy and Cheney ran the DoD and VPOTUS office like a corporation... and they used the US MIL and gov't to create a radical free market experiment in the middle of the desert to benefit corporations. First the contractors scored big time off the us tax payers... the second part was corporations to set up shop....but it was too violent.... and corporations backed out... now its just a mess... a failed business model....

Basically a couple of CEO's used the US MIL for an economic experiment... shameful and disgusting that our Soldiers were used in that fashion....

The central question.... why are we in Iraq?

 

[avbug]

Well, it's no secret that DHL has made a fortune flying USPS and FFV out of Bahrain and into IQ and AF. Kalitta et el would bring it as far as BAH, then DHL would take over flying the last leg into the war zones.

Those contracts were awarded to Kalitta, who subcontracted to DHL 'cause it was cheaper for them.

Money talks.

Really? Then you should probably ask yourself why Kalitta, et al, is landing in Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

[Be 23]

The central question.... why are we in Iraq?

Obviously, it's to provide jobs for contract pilots.

Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld invaded Iraq to set up the contractor smorgasbord. It would be a perfect plan if not for the cheap foreign airlines underbidding the price fix.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I like that.... smorgasbord..... perfected in Iraq for New Orleans/Katrina...

 

[One Dot Low]

Here's what I know and may be help clear some of this stuff up. I'll keep it simple and to the point.

One, those IED proof troop carriers do not fit in the 747 or DC 10. And I'll bet they are probably too heavy for any K-loaders out there. Hence the AN-124. They can just drive those puppies onto it and off it.

Two, until recently (3-4 months ago), the State Department, not the insurance company, did not allow N registered aircraft to go into Iraq (do not confuse this with Afghanistan).

That's it. Thanks for watching.

 

[b707guy]

One: Correct, although the items in question can be driven onto and off of C-5s as well.

Two: We've been landing in Iraq for over a year. And others were there before us. As far as I know, all of our aircraft are N registered.

 

[414Flyer]

Here's what I know and may be help clear some of this stuff up. I'll keep it simple and to the point.

One, those IED proof troop carriers do not fit in the 747 or DC 10. And I'll bet they are probably too heavy for any K-loaders out there. Hence the AN-124. They can just drive those puppies onto it and off it.

Two, until recently (3-4 months ago), the State Department, not the insurance company, did not allow N registered aircraft to go into Iraq (do not confuse this with Afghanistan).

That's it. Thanks for watching.

When I was flying out of Ft Wainwright/Ladd Field last summer, an AN-124 came in, probably in relation to the Stryker Battlion deploying.

 

[hvydriver]

Well, it's no secret that DHL has made a fortune flying USPS and FFV out of Bahrain and into IQ and AF. Kalitta et el would bring it as far as BAH, then DHL would take over flying the last leg into the war zones.

Those contracts were awarded to Kalitta, who subcontracted to DHL 'cause it was cheaper for them.

Money talks.

There is a long and distinguished history of doing the same thing with Astar as well, Euro.

 

[Nevergreen]

Let's cut to the bottom line here......

1. USAF C-5's, C-17's and C-130's can carry the same load as the AN124.

2. Russia is a hostile country to the United States. They do everything they can to undermine us.

3. Russian aircraft are not needed to carry U.S. military vehicles. Why is the U.S. military funding the operation and profitability of carriers that compete with U.S. carriers?

4. Put the troop carriers on the C-5's, C-17's and C-130's. Put the freight that those planes would have otherwise carried onto the civilian 747's.

5. No Russian carrier should ever carry anything funded by U.S. taxpayers. Again, Russia is a hostile country.

6. The FAA should inspect and ground and/or ban every Russian plane that enters U.S. airspace in an unairworthy condition.

Look at the money trail. Somebody somewhere in the U.S. Gov't is getting a huge payoff to give business to the Russians.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Look at the money trail. Somebody somewhere in the U.S. Gov't is getting a huge payoff to give business to the Russians.

You mean corporations and executives aren't loyal to America? Rather they are loyal to the dollar?

 

[flyboyike]

This last July I went out to buy a flag to put it in front of the house, I went to 4 different stores and couldn't find a single American flag made in America, go figure. I'll be damn if I'm going to waive an American flag made in Korea or China, so this 4th. of July I went flag less

Of course, the irony of it is that, as I recall, you yourself are an import (as am I), so...

 

[flyboyike]

2. Russia is a hostile country to the United States.

There is a difference between someone not being head-over-heels in love with you and someone being "hostile" to you. Russia is mostly the former.

 

[Be 23]

What nationality are the Antonovs doing the military contracting? A quick check of the calendar shows that they used to be Soviet, but aren't any more.

I had heard that they're Ukrainian. Maybe they're from multiple contries. If so, maybe assisting former Soviet republics to further their independence from mother Russia might be a worthwhile foreign policy goal.

 

[freightdogfred]

Let's cut to the bottom line here......

1. USAF C-5's, C-17's and C-130's can carry the same load as the AN124.

Well, actually, no they can't.

AN-124

Data from antonov.com[22]
General characteristics

• Crew: 6
• Capacity: 88 passengers
• Payload: 150,000 kg (330,000 lb)
• Length: 68.96 m (226 ft 3 in)
• Wingspan: 73.3 m (240 ft 5 in)
• Height: 20.78 m (68 ft 2 in)
• Wing area: 628 m² (6,760 sq ft)
• Empty weight: 175,000 kg (385,000 lb)
• Loaded weight: 405,000 kg (892,000 lb)
• Useful load: 230,000 kg (508,000 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 405,000 kg (893,000 lb)
• Powerplant: 4× Ivchenko Progress D-18T turbofans, 229.5 kN (51,600 lbf) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: 865 km/h (467 kn (537 mph))
• Cruise speed: 800-850 km/h (430 kn (490 mph))
• Range: 5,400 km (2,900 nm, 3,360 mi (5,410 km))
• Service ceiling 12,000 m (35,000 ft)
• Wing loading: 365 kg/m² (74.7 lb/sq ft)
• Thrust/weight: 0.41

C-5 Galaxy
Data from USAF fact sheet,[33] Lockheed-Martin C-5,[34] and Quest for Performance[35]
General characteristics

• Crew: 8 typical (Pilot, first pilot, copilot, two flight engineers, three loadmasters)
  4 minimum (Pilot, copilot, two flight engineers)
• Payload: 270,000 lb (120,000 kg)
• Length: 247 ft 1 in (75.3 m)
• Wingspan: 222 ft 9 in (67.89 m)
• Height: 65 ft 1 in (19.84 m)
• Wing area: 6,200 ft² (580 m²)
• Empty weight: 380,000 lb (170,000 kg)
• Loaded weight: 769,000 lb (349,000 kg)
• Max takeoff weight: 840,000 lb (381,000 kg)
• Powerplant: 4× General Electric TF39-GE-1C high-bypass turbofan, 43,000 lbf (190 kN) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 0.79 (503 knots, 579 mph, 931 km/h)
• Cruise speed: Mach 0.77
• Range: 2,400 nmi (2,761 mi, 4,445 km) with a 263,200 lb payload
• Service ceiling 34,000 ft (10.4 km)
• Rate of climb: 1,800 ft/min (9.1 m/s)
• Wing loading: 120 lb/ft² (610 kg/m²)
• Thrust/weight: 0.22
• Takeoff roll: 8,400 ft (2,600 m)
• Landing roll: 3,600 ft (1,100 m)
• Fuel capacity: 51,150 US gal (193,620 L)

C-17 Globemaster
Data from USAF fact sheet,[6] Boeing,[81] and AerospaceWeb[82]
General characteristics

• Crew: 3: 2 pilots, 1 loadmaster
• Capacity:
  • 102 troops or
  • 36 litter and 54 ambulatory patients
• Payload: 170,900 lb (77,519 kg) of cargo distributed at max over 18 463L master pallets or a mix of palletized cargo and vehicles
• Length: 174 ft (53 m)
• Wingspan: 169.8 ft (51.75 m)
• Height: 55.1 ft (16.8 m)
• Wing area: 3,800 ft² (353 m²)
• Empty weight: 282,500 lb (128,100 kg)
• Max takeoff weight: 585,000 lb (265,350 kg)
• Powerplant: 4× Pratt & Whitney F117-PW-100 turbofans, 40,440 lbf (180 kN) each
• Fuel capacity: 35,546 US gal (134,556 L)

Performance

• Cruise speed: Mach 0.76 (450 knots, 515 mph, 830 km/h)
• Range: 2,420 nmi[81] (2,785 mi, 4,482 km)
• Service ceiling 45,000 ft (13,716 m)
• Max wing loading: 150 lb/ft² (750 kg/m²)
• Minimum thrust/weight: 0.277

 

[milky]

Another reason, for you short-sighted individuals, is that US insurance companies will not insure N registered aircraft to land into war zones. They are now allowed over-flight only, which is a change from the begining of the wars.

Atlas got landing permission from the FAA early on, but no US insurance company would insure them with their N registered airplanes.

As an Army officer and an Atlas pilot, I can tell you that the MRAP does not fit in the B-747 or DC-10 and boat is too slow for the immediate need. The only civil aircraft for the lift in the AN. Otherwise, Atlas, Kalitta, World, Southern and others would be making a ton of money on them.

On the other point of non-American made flags: How many of you drive a non-American made vehicle because you say American mades are junk? How many Blue Bell factories (US based textile and sewing manufacturing of clothing and other sewn goods) have shut down because you want cheaper clothing and American flags? You want Walmart prices, but you want union wages. However, You think it's cool to be pretentious and have a Rolex knockoff and give you wife or girfriend a Louis Vuitton knockoff bag you picked-up in Hong Kong or Bangkok for next-to-nothing. What's up with that union boy?

The US economy is where it is today because we, as a society, went from selfless to selfish over the past 50 years. I'm not talking just about Wall Streeters. I'm mean all of us.

Go ahead and blast away at my public thoughts. At least I'm doing something, right now, to be selfless to defend your right to blast away at me.

OUT

You mean we cannot raise the minimum wage to $20/hour and still get a happy meal for $2? WTF?!?

 

[waka]

..................

 

[avbug]

Two, until recently (3-4 months ago), the State Department, not the insurance company, did not allow N registered aircraft to go into Iraq (do not confuse this with Afghanistan).

Wrong again. N Registered aircraft have been operating there for quite some time now.

 

[One Dot Low]

Wrong again. N Registered aircraft have been operating there for quite some time now.

There's always an exception to the rules. We have flown our whales into Afghanistan for a few years now but the Stated department did not allow our whales into Iraq until a few months ago.

Yes, shoulda dot my tees and crossed my iis.

As far as I know, Volga-Dnepr is the operator for the 124s and they are Ukranian and not Russian. We might think they are one and the same (typical we) but go to Kiev and tell them that and get ready for ass kicking. Kinda like mistaken Pakistani and Indian or Greek and Turks etc.

How do the Ukranians feel about Russia? Well, Ukraine wants to join the NATO and EU (align with the West, the Orange Revolution) but the Russian aren't too happy with that so they cut off the gas supplies into Ukraine citing non-payment etc.

 

[TWA]

Volga-Dnepr is Russian, Antonov Airlines is Ukrainian. Both operate the AN-124.

 

[One Dot Low]

Volga-Dnepr is Russian, Antonov Airlines is Ukrainian. Both operate the AN-124.

Thanks. I stand corrected. Another Russian carrier that operates the 124 is Polet Airlines.

 

[Nevergreen]

Still the bottom line is the same.....No foreign carriers should be utilized to carry US Gov't cargo when US planes can do the same job.

Put the vehicles on C-5's and C-17's. Period.

And for the record, they are Russian Registered planes. I have seen them with my own eyes.

Russia is a hostile country. They provide weapons to countries and groups that then use them against our soldiers.