US Airways raises the offer to 10.2 Billion

[FlyBoeingJets]

The BK judge already approved the DL pilots' contract. Nope.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I wouldn't say "Nope" until after you exit BK.

 

[EdTeachLives!]

DP raises the offer 20%? I thought DL's valuation was "suspect". Appears perhaps it it was not and DP was trying to get DL on the cheap side.

So, this extra 20% is in cash, right? Nope. It's all added debt. Wonderful idea! Now the combined entity will have over 22 Billion in debt! DL's stand alone plan has it emerging with 8 billion in debt which is excellent compared to its 20+ billion it had prior to BK.

So if this is consumated, you have an extremely over leveraged airline with reactionary mergers that follow. Immediately you have a third tier air carrier with no Pacific rim exposure that will have to divest itself of critical east coast landing slots, gates and routes. The resulting reactionary mergers will produce stronger airlines with superior networks, and, they scoop up the divested assets as well. Excellent plan. Brilliant!

This increase appears to be a last ditch attempt to save face for Parker as it now has a drop dead date on the deal. Great way for him to say the deal died on his terms rather than face rejection on all other aspects of the proposal.

 

[PCL_128]

both the Senate and House don't seem very interested in this deal at all. They will strike it down, even if the creditors somehow said yes to this new deal

I tend to agree with you that this deal won't happen, but the Senate and the House aren't the ones that can strike it down. They can hold hearing and make recommendations, but the DOJ is the decision-maker.

 

[General Lee]

I wouldn't say "Nope" until after you exit BK.

Well, he did approve the DL pilots' contract, and that is why Parker even acknowledged that fact. Remember, Moak stated the USAir people initially thought they were "technicalities", which then went to "items unexpected." That is what I said "nope" to. As far as the takeover, I would say very unlikely---especially with the government now getting more involved. And, the creditor committee still will probably favor DL's plan, for the same reasons Phillip Baggely stated "less aquisition debt (now not $4 billion but $7 billion or more), DOJ scruitny, employee integration problems, etc..."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I tend to agree with you that this deal won't happen, but the Senate and the House aren't the ones that can strike it down. They can hold hearing and make recommendations, but the DOJ is the decision-maker.

Oberstar tends to think he can lean on the DOJ:


Oberstar (chairman of the transportations sub committee) said that by publicly exposing the potential dangers of airline consolidation, his committee may be able to "throw cold water" on merger mania. "We can nudge the Justice Department to take the action they must" to prevent a loss in competition, he said.
Oberstar also said opposition to consolidation is bipartisan. "I’ve heard from members on both sides of the aisle" as worries have grown about the impact on jobs and service, he said. "I haven’t heard anyone come forward and say this is a really good deal."






Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[lookin4better]

IF ....and thats a big IF, this goes through....I bet we can count on merger frenzy.....I wont even guess who.....but others will follow in the consolidation....

 

[General Lee]

I tend to agree with you that this deal won't happen, but the Senate and the House aren't the ones that can strike it down. They can hold hearing and make recommendations, but the DOJ is the decision-maker.

Oberstar thinks he can LEAN on the DOJ to stop this:


Oberstar (chairman of the transportations sub committee) said that by publicly exposing the potential dangers of airline consolidation, his committee may be able to "throw cold water" on merger mania. "We can nudge the Justice Department to take the action they must" to prevent a loss in competition, he said.
Oberstar also said opposition to consolidation is bipartisan. "I’ve heard from members on both sides of the aisle" as worries have grown about the impact on jobs and service, he said. "I haven’t heard anyone come forward and say this is a really good deal."



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

IF ....and thats a big IF, this goes through....I bet we can count on merger frenzy.....I wont even guess who.....but others will follow in the consolidation....

You're right. And that would leave US/DL as the small guy on the block. We would have hardly anything in Asia, and we would go up against CAL/UAL, and probably AA/NW (since the DOJ would approve US/DL--they would probably approve everyone else). Those two monsters would crush us. That is another supposed worry for some of our creditors. AA/NW and CAL/UAL would have complete route structures, and we would be lacking.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[spinproof]

The BK judge already approved the DL pilots' contract. Nope. Doug is simply trying to talk to the creditors, and he hasn't obviously talked to the BK judge or anyone else who knows what is going on.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Oh and you do!

Wow and you didn't mention Oberstar one time.....!!!! spoke too soon!!!...now klick your heels three times and sing..... When you wish on Oberstar makes no difference who you are, when you wish on Oberstar your dreams coooommmmmeeee taa-rue!

 

[General Lee]

Oh and you do!

Wow and you didn't mention Oberstar one time.....!!!! spoke too soon!!!...now klick your heels three times and sing..... When you wish on Oberstar makes no difference who you are, when you wish on Oberstar your dreams coooommmmmeeee taa-rue!

You can't debate, so you try to make fun, and instead look dumb.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ironspud]

You can't debate, so you try to make fun, and instead look dumb.


Bye Bye--General Lee

No he didn't. That was ROTFLOAO funny.:laugh: Good one spinproof! Made my day.

 

[General Lee]

No he didn't. That was ROTFLOAO funny.:laugh: Good one spinproof! Made my day.

Are you still in Seoul? Bummer. When do you go back towards ANC? Someday.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[tomgoodman]

Hmmm....

So, this extra 20% is in cash, right? Nope. It's all added debt....if this is consumated, you have an extremely over leveraged airline with reactionary mergers that follow. Immediately you have a third tier air carrier with no Pacific rim exposure that will have to divest itself of critical east coast landing slots, gates and routes. The resulting reactionary mergers will produce stronger airlines with superior networks, and, they scoop up the divested assets as well.

Maybe that's the real plan: put the combined company hopelessly in debt, squeeze the employees again, sell off assets, and bail out with a huge golden parachute. It's been done before.

 

[FDJ2]

I predict that this higher offer will completely convert General Lee into the biggest supporter there is.

I predict this offer will put more coin in every Delta pilots pocket as the claim sale is in full swing. Beyond that, it's just another fart in the wind by Dougie with a drop dead date of Feb. 1.

 

[bravodude]

Wow, I should read it and weep? Huh? The Government came in yesterday and stated there would be hearings, and both the Senate and House don't seem very interested in this deal at all. They will strike it down, even if the creditors somehow said yes to this new deal (5 of the 9 on the committee are friendlies). I still can't wait to see Parker testify in front of the Senate and the House panels. Say it with a straight face Doug--"We will lower fares, and this is good for the consumer.....taking one of two airlines out of many cities in the Southeast...." Riiiight. It is all over but the shouting (was that the case with US and UAL?).


Bye Bye--General Lee

Takeing one airline out is a good thing. WE have toooooooo much capacity and you know that, just because they picked Delta general you are throwing a fit, if it didn't involve Delta you would be screaming how much we need this deal and consolidation and blah blah blah, shut up and take it like a man.

 

[spinproof]

You can't debate, so you try to make fun, and instead look dumb.


Bye Bye--General Lee

OK..sorry I'll try not to make fun of you anymore...Oh and I'm trying not to look dumb..and..and... I know I'm not a good debater..well its hard when you're up against such a "Master-de-bater".... ...uh with all due respect of course!

 

[General Lee]

Takeing one airline out is a good thing. WE have toooooooo much capacity and you know that, just because they picked Delta general you are throwing a fit, if it didn't involve Delta you would be screaming how much we need this deal and consolidation and blah blah blah, shut up and take it like a man.

That really makes no sense. Mergers are good when they actually make sense. The USAir/AWA merger actually made sense, and was good for both parties. This one does not. You know as well as I do that taking capacity out of the system will NOT last long. Southwest and others will fill in the gaps, with lower wages for those people who were put out of work due to the original bad merger. I don't think consolidation is the answer, but if others do actually move to merge and it makes sense (CAL/UAL could merge because their routes and hubs would be a good fit)---then there would be a move towards consolidation. But a merger or takeover that really makes NO sense, that doesn't work. Looks like the Gov't doesn't want any mergers right now. You should take this up with your local Congressman, or call Oberstar directly....

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

OK..sorry I'll try not to make fun of you anymore...Oh and I'm trying not to look dumb..and..and... I know I'm not a good debater..well its hard when you're up against such a "Master-de-bater".... ...uh with all due respect of course!

You got that right........And I smile the whole time .....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Bat]

General,

Why do you say SW will give them low paying jobs? Last I checked, SW pays their 737 Captains from $174-$198 an hour and that is favorable to DL 777 rates of $173-$188 per hour. It is a good thing they don't pay DL rates and give them such low paying jobs may have been what you meant unless you are aware of a new pay raise on the way. And by the way, I do hope that you do have a pay raise on the way. I hope that we all have a pay raise on the way!

 

[General Lee]

General,

Why do you say SW will give them low paying jobs? Last I checked, SW pays their 737 Captains from $174-$198 an hour and that is favorable to DL 777 rates of $173-$188 per hour. It is a good thing they don't pay DL rates and give them such low paying jobs may have been what you meant unless you are aware of a new pay raise on the way. And by the way, I do hope that you do have a pay raise on the way. I hope that we all have a pay raise on the way!

That is not what I mean at all. Most of the workers that will be let go will be airport workers or ramp and gate people due to the fact that at airports served by both, they don't need two ticket counters or twice the gates. They will have to start over with new carriers if they want to stay in the business, at lower wages and lower or new seniority. Thanks for bringing up the new pilot wages at Southwest. We helped them get that with our original 777 rates. Thanks.


Bye Bye--General Lee