US Airways execs meet with Pilots

[satpak77]

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/sto...aders.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (TheStreet) -- Top US Airways(LCC) executives met with the airline's pilot leaders Monday to discuss the state of merger talks with United(UAUA). "The purpose of the meeting was to once again underscore USAPA's willingness to work cooperatively with our company's management to facilitate any transaction that brings true value to all the potential stakeholders, including our pilots," said the US Airline Pilots Association in a brief statement. USAPA president Mike Cleary said the union will work with the carrier to "evaluate any potential transaction." The meeting included Cleary and union vice president Randy Mowrey, as well as US Airways CEO Doug Parker, President Scott Kirby and COO Robert Isom.

 

[rudder]

The only upside to a UA/US merger would be the demise of USAPA.

 

[ultrarunner]

Wow, NIC hasn't even been implement, no single contract, and they are meeting to discuss a merger???

Incredible. But you're right, UAL will shove USAPA right up their crap hole, which is a good thing....

 

[TWA Dude]

Uh-uh, according to USAPA's attorney Lee Seham the United pilots will vote in USAPA.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xO8PnZWWnE

Best part comes up at the 5 minute point.

 

[BeCareful!]

Yawn....old news. And what he says later about UAL pilots and their latest thinking about seniority seems to be true. I know of exactly zero UAL pilots who think a 2004 hire date should net you narrow body captain or widebody FO with a block.

Good luck with that ploy....

 

[eaglesview]

I don't know why many of you think we are all behind ALPA at UAL. Most of the narrowbody types that have flown under a different set of rules than the widebody will tell ALPA to kiss off given half a chance. I would vote independant union in a heart beat, As I have said before if United is the name that were to survive, all we got to do is remove the S from USAPA.

 

[TWA Dude]

It's no shock that many at UAL are dissatisfied with ALPA. As I've said before, when times are bad nobody is happy with their union. Unions are a very convenient scapegoat, ie, why didn't they stop xxx from happening?

However, the obvious discontent with ALPA doesn't necessarily translate to voting in a new union. Calm, rational minds understand that changing to an independent union won't solve any problems. The USAir Easties should've known better but they let their emotions and misplaced trust in Seham lead them down the wrong path. For now I'm going to trust the UAL pilots not to make the same mistake.

 

[eaglesview]

It's no shock that many at UAL are dissatisfied with ALPA. As I've said before, when times are bad nobody is happy with their union. Unions are a very convenient scapegoat, ie, why didn't they stop xxx from happening?

However, the obvious discontent with ALPA doesn't necessarily translate to voting in a new union. Calm, rational minds understand that changing to an independent union won't solve any problems. The USAir Easties should've known better but they let their emotions and misplaced trust in Seham lead them down the wrong path. For now I'm going to trust the UAL pilots not to make the same mistake.

You are of course welcome to your opinion. I would choose to belong to a union that has my best interests, and only my, best interest in mind. ALPA gave that up when they decided to represent pilots that compete for the same flying as me. I am all for the RJ pilots getting as much pay as they can. I understand that is also in my favor however they, and I do not have to belong to the same union. An obvious conflict of interest.

As for trusting us?? I don't know. We will vote as best we can with our wallets.

 

[TWA Dude]

Lemme ask you, IYO how has USAPA been working out for the US Airways pilots so far?

 

[eaglesview]

Lemme ask you, IYO how has USAPA been working out for the US Airways pilots so far?

In my opinion they have been successful in protecting what they believe is theirs. I am aware that most of the west guys will argue they could have had a raise by now if they had merged, however there is no contractual raise big enough to cover the lost pay resulting in the loss of upgrades they would suffer with the nic. I am not making a political statement here that is simply math facts. Pilots vote with their wallets. This is why in my opinion a merger with USAir will not work with the nic in place. Though we would benefit short term, in the long run we are better off with DOH or longevity because of the age of the East pilots.

 

[BeCareful!]

Lemme ask you, IYO how has USAPA been working out for the US Airways pilots so far?

Very, very well. Oh, but lemme guess, you have a different opinion....

 

[Bringupthebird]

In my opinion they have been successful in protecting what they believe is theirs.

That's the problem. When you form a union, you have to protect ALL the interests, not pick sides and disenfranchise the rest. Had they stayed with ALPA, then USALPA could have protected THEIR interests legitimately.

No one at USAPA seems to get this simple premise.

 

[becket]

In my opinion they have been successful in protecting what they believe is theirs.

Exactly who are "They"?

 

[BeCareful!]

Had they stayed with ALPA, then USALPA could have protected THEIR interests legitimately.

No one at USAPA seems to get this simple premise.

Right. We were getting stellar representation from ALPA!

No one at America West seems to get the simple fact that ALPA had been failing at USAIR for many years. It wasn't all visible from the outside looking in. The in-fighting, the stupid politics, the loser mentality of ALPA on this property is what got them ousted. Those boys put up a mighty (and shamefully dishonest) fight to stay in power. Some of them are desperately trying to take over USAPA right now, because they hate flying the line under the contract they so proudly delivered to us. They are Union Boys first, with piloting a distant fifth or sixth on their priority list (IMO).

ALPA has morphed into this sort of thing elsewhere. I'm not saying UAL would vote USAPA in; I think that's far-fetched. But an independent union is a really, really good thing, regardless of the outcome in this particular instance. ALPA has gotten too political for its own good. No one's interests were being served at U-ALPA, except for ALPA's.

 

[TWA Dude]

In my opinion they have been successful in protecting what they believe is theirs.

That's like saying Bernie Madoff did a good job acquiring wealth. You can't just ignore how he did it.

I know you've said before how you disapprove of the East's method (that whole binding arbitration thing) so it thoroughly confuses me that you would say they're protection what they believe is theirs. Unethical behavior such as theirs should not be deemed successful.

 

[St. Nic]

eagle is a true east pilot, a man of character and integerty. He offers a balanced view

 

[eaglesview]

That's like saying Bernie Madoff did a good job acquiring wealth. You can't just ignore how he did it.

I know you've said before how you disapprove of the East's method (that whole binding arbitration thing) so it thoroughly confuses me that you would say they're protection what they believe is theirs. Unethical behavior such as theirs should not be deemed successful.

Are they still seperate?? have they allowed an AWA pilot with less longevity to jump over them?? They have been succesful so far at keeping what was THEY, not you, believe is theirs. That is just the facts, I am not stating anything that is not true here.

A child screeming in the grocery store for that candy bar until he gets it is not showing good behavior, but he was succesful.

 

[TWA Dude]

A child screeming in the grocery store for that candy bar until he gets it is not showing good behavior, but he was succesful.

Alas, another thing we can agree on: the Easties are like children screaming in grocery store. So what does the fact that you admire them say about you?

 

[get2flyin]

Yawn....old news. And what he says later about UAL pilots and their latest thinking about seniority seems to be true. I know of exactly zero UAL pilots who think a 2004 hire date should net you narrow body captain or widebody FO with a block.

Good luck with that ploy....

Uh, that's a fine bit of flamebait. Most of the 2004 hires are on the street and the Spring 2004 hires just dodged furlough and are expecting to surf the bottom of the seniority list for a long time.

Stop trying to spread rumors to the United pilots, D-bag.:bomb:

 

[j32wreck]

In my opinion they have been successful in protecting what they believe is theirs. I am aware that most of the west guys will argue they could have had a raise by now if they had merged, however there is no contractual raise big enough to cover the lost pay resulting in the loss of upgrades they would suffer with the nic. I am not making a political statement here that is simply math facts. Pilots vote with their wallets. This is why in my opinion a merger with USAir will not work with the nic in place. Though we would benefit short term, in the long run we are better off with DOH or longevity because of the age of the East pilots.

Really? Got some numbers for that?

 

[eaglesview]

Alas, another thing we can agree on: the Easties are like children screaming in grocery store. So what does the fact that you admire them say about you?

Normally your posts are pretty good but your dipping here. You say I admire them, not sure why, I am just posting the facts. The children in a grocery store was simply an anology of bad behavior being "succesful."

 

[eaglesview]

Really? Got some numbers for that?

Average contractual raise 3%/year. Captains generally make 40% more than F/O's. Have you never upgraded before or worked under a contract??

 

[BeCareful!]

There's another kid in another cart at the grocery store. He's keeps screaming "Nic, Nic, Nic!!!"

 

[BeCareful!]

Uh, that's a fine bit of flamebait. Most of the 2004 hires are on the street and the Spring 2004 hires just dodged furlough and are expecting to surf the bottom of the seniority list for a long time.

Stop trying to spread rumors to the United pilots, D-bag.:bomb:

Not spreading any rumors. Look at where the Super Seniority Nicolau "Award" puts a guy at UAL.

Expecting to surf the bottom? Why? Aren't you guys confident that you're about to shove that Nic "Award" up the East's holes? You all talk so much trash here and act like you're ready to take over the left seats at this airline, well, I thought it was close to a done deal.

 

[TWA Dude]

You say I admire them, not sure why, I am just posting the facts.

The children in a grocery store was simply an anology of bad behavior being "succesful."[/QUOTE]I understood that perfectly. A good parent doesn't reward bad behavior. By calling the East's strategy "successful" you reward them. Instead, you should be pointing out that if justice is done they will be punished for their poor behavior. Tantrums aren't supposed to be successful.

And yes, I say you admire them because you are just about the only FI poster not affiliated with the East who writes sympathetic posts about their behavior. What other motivation could you have? Go ahead and tell me.

 

[TWA Dude]

Look at where the Super Seniority Nicolau "Award" puts a guy at UAL.

The Nicolau list doesn't put UAL pilots anywhere.

 

[eaglesview]

The children in a grocery store was simply an anology of bad behavior being "succesful " I understood that perfectly. A good parent doesn't reward bad behavior. By calling the East's strategy "successful" you reward them. Instead, you should be pointing out that if justice is done they will be punished for their poor behavior. Tantrums aren't supposed to be successful.

And yes, I say you admire them because you are just about the only FI poster not affiliated with the East who writes sympathetic posts about their behavior. What other motivation could you have? Go ahead and tell me.

This is silly. In your analogy who is the "parent " of the East pilots?? Enough of that, I won't use anymore analogies to keep it simple.

You want to believe I admire them, go right ahead. My motivation is simple. For me, and most of the UAL pilot group DOH/Longevity integration is better for our careers, period, that is it. Yes the East is more senior than us, but they are old, ie won't be a factor after the industry starts retiring. AWA is a much younger pilot group with, as a whole less longevity. It really isn't that complicated. My fault, if you will, is I will say what other people are thinking even if it's not popular. I have read posts how my fellow UAL'rs are simpathetic to the west. They are not simpathetic to the point where they will put a permanent barrier (younger pilots senior to them) up for the rest of their careers.

 

[TWA Dude]

My motivation is simple. For me, and most of the UAL pilot group DOH/Longevity integration is better for our careers, period, that is it.

Wait a minute, sailor, you've been praising the East's stand since long before this UAL/USAir merger foolishness. You've relished making the AWA guys out to be bad guys for having the nerve to accepting an arbitration.

Plus, I don't believe this is just about you supporting DOH. I supported a DOH integration for TWA with for completely selfish reasons, however, more important to me is that the integration process be fair. Negotiate --> mediate --> arbitrate. That's how a fair integration should go, finis. Your support of the East for protecting their own through unethical means is appalling.

I have read posts how my fellow UAL'rs are simpathetic to the west. They are not simpathetic to the point where they will put a permanent barrier (younger pilots senior to them) up for the rest of their careers.

Once again, what does a pilot's age have to do with anything? In any case, should this merger come to fruition I've no doubt any sympathy the UAL pilots have for AWA pilots will disappear in the usual integration rancor. That's just how it goes.

 

[j32wreck]

Average contractual raise 3%/year. Captains generally make 40% more than F/O's. Have you never upgraded before or worked under a contract??

No. The east's raise would be more than 3%, that's a given. I am asking you for the name of one person employed on the east the day of the merger who falls under the circumstance you described. What you will find is that the contrary is true. There is very little chance that anyone on the east can make up what they have lost. DOH cannot get them what they have given up had the nic been implemented with a contract 3 years ago.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Are they still seperate?? have they allowed an AWA pilot with less longevity to jump over them?? They have been succesful so far at keeping what was THEY, not you, believe is theirs. That is just the facts, I am not stating anything that is not true here.

A child screeming in the grocery store for that candy bar until he gets it is not showing good behavior, but he was succesful.

So USAPA has been successful in protecting the interests of the original East pilots and that is how you measure their success? OK, I'll buy that. But their "success' in protecting the East pilots has been absolutely detrimental to the airline as a whole. So when viewed in that perspective you cannot say that USAPA has been a "success." When you make your company weaker that is hardly a "success."

In fact, your comments are completely subjective, not objective as someone earlier posted.