US Airways execs meet with Pilots

[eaglesview]

Alas, another thing we can agree on: the Easties are like children screaming in grocery store. So what does the fact that you admire them say about you?

Normally your posts are pretty good but your dipping here. You say I admire them, not sure why, I am just posting the facts. The children in a grocery store was simply an anology of bad behavior being "succesful."

 

[eaglesview]

Really? Got some numbers for that?

Average contractual raise 3%/year. Captains generally make 40% more than F/O's. Have you never upgraded before or worked under a contract??

 

[BeCareful!]

There's another kid in another cart at the grocery store. He's keeps screaming "Nic, Nic, Nic!!!"

 

[BeCareful!]

Uh, that's a fine bit of flamebait. Most of the 2004 hires are on the street and the Spring 2004 hires just dodged furlough and are expecting to surf the bottom of the seniority list for a long time.

Stop trying to spread rumors to the United pilots, D-bag.:bomb:

Not spreading any rumors. Look at where the Super Seniority Nicolau "Award" puts a guy at UAL.

Expecting to surf the bottom? Why? Aren't you guys confident that you're about to shove that Nic "Award" up the East's holes? You all talk so much trash here and act like you're ready to take over the left seats at this airline, well, I thought it was close to a done deal.

 

[TWA Dude]

You say I admire them, not sure why, I am just posting the facts.

The children in a grocery store was simply an anology of bad behavior being "succesful."[/QUOTE]I understood that perfectly. A good parent doesn't reward bad behavior. By calling the East's strategy "successful" you reward them. Instead, you should be pointing out that if justice is done they will be punished for their poor behavior. Tantrums aren't supposed to be successful.

And yes, I say you admire them because you are just about the only FI poster not affiliated with the East who writes sympathetic posts about their behavior. What other motivation could you have? Go ahead and tell me.

 

[TWA Dude]

Look at where the Super Seniority Nicolau "Award" puts a guy at UAL.

The Nicolau list doesn't put UAL pilots anywhere.

 

[eaglesview]

The children in a grocery store was simply an anology of bad behavior being "succesful " I understood that perfectly. A good parent doesn't reward bad behavior. By calling the East's strategy "successful" you reward them. Instead, you should be pointing out that if justice is done they will be punished for their poor behavior. Tantrums aren't supposed to be successful.

And yes, I say you admire them because you are just about the only FI poster not affiliated with the East who writes sympathetic posts about their behavior. What other motivation could you have? Go ahead and tell me.

This is silly. In your analogy who is the "parent " of the East pilots?? Enough of that, I won't use anymore analogies to keep it simple.

You want to believe I admire them, go right ahead. My motivation is simple. For me, and most of the UAL pilot group DOH/Longevity integration is better for our careers, period, that is it. Yes the East is more senior than us, but they are old, ie won't be a factor after the industry starts retiring. AWA is a much younger pilot group with, as a whole less longevity. It really isn't that complicated. My fault, if you will, is I will say what other people are thinking even if it's not popular. I have read posts how my fellow UAL'rs are simpathetic to the west. They are not simpathetic to the point where they will put a permanent barrier (younger pilots senior to them) up for the rest of their careers.

 

[TWA Dude]

My motivation is simple. For me, and most of the UAL pilot group DOH/Longevity integration is better for our careers, period, that is it.

Wait a minute, sailor, you've been praising the East's stand since long before this UAL/USAir merger foolishness. You've relished making the AWA guys out to be bad guys for having the nerve to accepting an arbitration.

Plus, I don't believe this is just about you supporting DOH. I supported a DOH integration for TWA with for completely selfish reasons, however, more important to me is that the integration process be fair. Negotiate --> mediate --> arbitrate. That's how a fair integration should go, finis. Your support of the East for protecting their own through unethical means is appalling.

I have read posts how my fellow UAL'rs are simpathetic to the west. They are not simpathetic to the point where they will put a permanent barrier (younger pilots senior to them) up for the rest of their careers.

Once again, what does a pilot's age have to do with anything? In any case, should this merger come to fruition I've no doubt any sympathy the UAL pilots have for AWA pilots will disappear in the usual integration rancor. That's just how it goes.

 

[j32wreck]

Average contractual raise 3%/year. Captains generally make 40% more than F/O's. Have you never upgraded before or worked under a contract??

No. The east's raise would be more than 3%, that's a given. I am asking you for the name of one person employed on the east the day of the merger who falls under the circumstance you described. What you will find is that the contrary is true. There is very little chance that anyone on the east can make up what they have lost. DOH cannot get them what they have given up had the nic been implemented with a contract 3 years ago.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Are they still seperate?? have they allowed an AWA pilot with less longevity to jump over them?? They have been succesful so far at keeping what was THEY, not you, believe is theirs. That is just the facts, I am not stating anything that is not true here.

A child screeming in the grocery store for that candy bar until he gets it is not showing good behavior, but he was succesful.

So USAPA has been successful in protecting the interests of the original East pilots and that is how you measure their success? OK, I'll buy that. But their "success' in protecting the East pilots has been absolutely detrimental to the airline as a whole. So when viewed in that perspective you cannot say that USAPA has been a "success." When you make your company weaker that is hardly a "success."

In fact, your comments are completely subjective, not objective as someone earlier posted.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Are they still seperate?? have they allowed an AWA pilot with less longevity to jump over them?? They have been succesful so far at keeping what was THEY, not you, believe is theirs. That is just the facts, I am not stating anything that is not true here.

A child screeming in the grocery store for that candy bar until he gets it is not showing good behavior, but he was succesful.

Yes, and in the long run that mother will probably not take her child to the grocery store anymore. All that child did was settle for a candy bar not realizing that he was giving up so much more. That child's behavior was short sighted and immature.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

This is my prediction:

If US Airways and United do merge the Nic award will be the final list used to determine seniority. There is no reason not to. It has already been decided for us. The East pilots just keep going to court over it looking for procedural errors that don't exist. In fact, I could United using the Nic award just to spite the East pilots.

United will also put up lengthy fences around their widebody flying. These fences will effectively keep the majority of East pilots and a sizable portion of West pilots from ever seeing the 777s/747s/767-300s anyway. If you are 50 or older you will not be flying United widebody aircraft.

So we will see a United list merge with the Nic list. How that will pan out I have no idea. Probably not well for us.

 

[eaglesview]

Wait a minute, sailor, you've been praising the East's stand since long before this UAL/USAir merger foolishness.

Thank you for pointing out that I have been consistant with my DOH/Longevity stance long before this USAir/UAL foolishness.

 

[BeCareful!]

Once again, what does a pilot's age have to do with anything?

You seriously want us to believe that you don't understand what a pilot's age has to do with anything? Even with age 65, there still is a predictable attrition schedule, and it has everything to do with age.

 

[m80drvr]

You seriously want us to believe that you don't understand what a pilot's age has to do with anything? Even with age 65, there still is a predictable attrition schedule, and it has everything to do with age.

So the 50 year old new hire in my class should have been made a captain day one just because he is old???? Age has nothing to do with it. As we have all seen, projected attrition can chane in an instant.

 

[TWA Dude]

You seriously want us to believe that you don't understand what a pilot's age has to do with anything? Even with age 65, there still is a predictable attrition schedule, and it has everything to do with age.

You need to read posts more carefully. eaglesview repeatedly tried to equate seniority with age and that's what I was responding to.

BTW, I'm less senior now than I was a month after I was hired yet I'm six years older. How can that be? (read sarcasm)

 

[Draginass]

It's going to be CAL/UAL and not US Air. I think US Air is only being played as a shill to force CAL's hand.

That leave US Airways alone without a dance partner. And I don't think AA wants anything except maybe a small piece of US Air. And I'm certain that the APA doesn't want anything to do with another SLI debacle.

 

[eaglesview]

This age thing was misconstrude by TWA. My statement was in general if a list is done by DOH then generally the older pilots will be more senior. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule. I never said age should be the way anyone should create a SLI.

 

[BeCareful!]

You need to read posts more carefully.

AAAAAahahahahahhahahahaha! Yeah, that's what I need and everyone else needs!!! That's effin' hilarious! TO READ FLIGHT-MIS-INFO posts "more carefully." Sure, like anything that "happens" here or is written here makes any difference in anything whatsoever. Dude, ain't no g'damn way I'm going to read anything on this toilette bowl of "info" more carefully. You and everyone here who wastes time trying to convince yourselves that you're correct by using spin, half truths, lies, and whatever else...man, you can have it! Maybe Wake reads all this stuff and that's how he rules. I can see it now "Well, sure it's ripe; heck, it's been discussed in "The Hanger" Majors section for several months now!"

OK. Of course, I'm just kidding. I'll be sure to read FI.com posts very carefully from now on, and take considerable time and effort before crafting my thoughtful response. After all, that's what all the west guys do, right?

BC.....and "FUPM"

 

[BeCareful!]

That leave US Airways alone without a dance partner. And I don't think AA wants anything except maybe a small piece of US Air.

I'm not really supposed to disclose this, but....awe, WTH, here goes: AA wants PHX. They want PHX, and they want it bad. There's talk of re-opening LAS, too, with new twice-hourly service between the two, with stops in Bullhead City and Kingman using 757's! There's even been talk of paying the pilots an over ride fee for completing so many legs on these PHX-IGM-IFP-LAS shuttle routes. Might end up being 12 legs on a one day trip paying only 6 hours hard time, but Scott and Doug talked it over and they think it's worth capturing this lucrative market, and they've convinced Arpey that $$ is no object. Reportedly, they said "The West Is Where It's At, Bro!!!!!" And so Arpey said, "No....way." And then Doug said, "Way." And then so Arpey said, "Really? No....way" and then BOTH Doug and Scott said "WAY!!!" Then they opened a bottle of Jack and sealed the deal.

Of course, on Saturdays they plan on slowing things down a bit by routing smaller aircraft (A319, most likely) PHX-PRC-FLG-INW-GCN....lunch break....then on to IGM, skipping IFP so straight on to LAS. From there, they'll go direct SEA for a long RON.

Dudes, this is going to bring SWA to their knees! All this west coast action is going to stir up our industry on a level not seen since AirTran opened CAK-ATL.....holy cow, y'all remember that, right?

Yeah, AA wants PHX. Mark my words, and remember: you heard it first on Flight (mis) Info. COMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!