US Air To Address Investor Concerns

[waveflyer]

How much did the USAir East guys militantly guarding a DOH merger derail the United proposed merger in 2000? I need some education.

 

[weasel_lips]

I need some education.

Better look somewhere else for that.

 

[UALjan15]

How much did the USAir East guys militantly guarding a DOH merger derail the United proposed merger in 2000? I need some education.

I wouldn't say it was much of a factor. IMHO, labor didn't doom that merger. In simple terms, Goodwin and his team were outnegotiated by Wolf & friends, and it didn't take long for buyer's remorse to set in. Sixty bucks a share was an absolutely appalling figure at the time, and the deal would have sent them all into BK (oh wait....that happened anyway!). To address your original thought, the UAL pilots were not looking forward to the integration, and their displeasure became part of the "summer of love," but to say that it derailed the merger gives us pilot pawns way too much credit.

 

[reepicheep]

The merger was dropped for a host of reasons, not the least of which was the UAL pilots' reluctance to enter the deal - mostly not wanting the usair millstone around their necks. USAir pilots asking "what does my DOH hold in SFO" and "when does my 777 class start" didn't exactly endear them to the UAL group.

But aside from this there was an almost immediate and strong political backlash to the proposed deal that only gained momentum with time. And then the industry started to hit tough times and UAL began losing money and the deal just didn't seem worth it anymore.

 

[IronCityBlue]

the 190 is flown by us airways mainline

So was the 170.

 

[get2flyin]

So was the 170.

No, I believe that was flown by the elite "Embraer Division". Not by mainline.

 

[sonny320]

No, I believe that was flown by the elite "Embraer Division". Not by mainline.

Was MidAtlantic which was on the same operating certificate as mainline UsAir. Flown by furloughed mainline pilots at Embraer rates.

 

[get2flyin]

Was MidAtlantic which was on the same operating certificate as mainline UsAir. Flown by furloughed mainline pilots at Embraer rates.

"Furloughed mainline" pilots are not the same as "mainline" pilots.

Put on your helmets everyone....here we go again!:bomb:

 

[cactusboy53]

Was MidAtlantic which was on the same operating certificate as mainline UsAir. Flown by furloughed mainline pilots at Embraer rates.

Well, that statement says it all. It doesn't matter who paid the fuel bill, who paid the leases, etc. The pilots that flew these aircraft were furloughed mainline pilots. These pilots could not bid back to A320's, B737's, A330's, etc. Only when they were recalled back to the mainline carrier could they then bid back to this equipment.

 

[IronCityBlue]

"Furloughed mainline" pilots are not the same as "mainline" pilots.

They were not furloughed USAir pilots, they were USAir pilots. The planes were on the USAirways operating certificate. Call sign was USAirways. The pilots were on the USAirways pilot seniority list. MidAtlantic was 100% USAirways just like Ted is 100% United and Song was 100% Delta. The 170 was a mainline aircraft flying on the mainline with mainline pilots.

It was sold off at a later point during bankruptcy and that flying was permitted to be outsourced at that time. Then all the Jets-for-jobs crap started happening which I suspect is why you may be confused about the issue.

My point was (still is) that the 170 was a mainline aircraft operated by mainline pilots at one time. Now it is not. The 190 is, for right now. There will be a lot of pressure from management (*jingle, jingle* here's some widebody candy! come on now! dassa good widdle pilot! now just sign this widdle LOA and all your dweams will come twue!) to purge the 190 from the mainline. But its up to the pilots regarding if they will allow that. They did before (170) however they are in a stronger position now than they were then, so we shall see.

 

[IronCityBlue]

Well, that statement says it all. It doesn't matter who paid the fuel bill, who paid the leases, etc. The pilots that flew these aircraft were furloughed mainline pilots. These pilots could not bid back to A320's, B737's, A330's, etc. Only when they were recalled back to the mainline carrier could they then bid back to this equipment.

How can they be furloughed USAir pilots when they are flying USAir planes and getting paychecks by USAirways? And not all of them were furloughed. About 40 or 50 of them went to the 170 without a single day of unemployment or even a furlough notice. Yet Nicolau labeled them as furloughed as well. That is one of the strongest cases they have at getting the award revisited. While arbitration is final, the arbitrator has to be correct in the methodology he lays out. He said staple the furloughed pilots at that time because they didn't bring a job to the table. Fine, fair or not that was his decision. But many of those pilots were never furloughed.

 

[get2flyin]

How can they be furloughed USAir pilots when they are flying USAir planes and getting paychecks by USAirways?

But many of those pilots were never furloughed.

Could they bid the Airbus if they wanted to fly it instead?

Also, out of curiosity..where did the FOs come from? Were they on the regular list or did they come from the street?

 

[m80drvr]

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you can bid off Ted or Song if your seniority can hold it. The MDA guys could NOT bid off the 170, AND it was operated with the FULL understanding of the pilots that they were NOT active usair pilots, they were working for a wholly owned subsidiary like ALG or PDT. It is only after the fact that you want to change history. Kind of like the seniority “do over” the east is looking for. Apple does not fall far from the tree I guess.

If the MDA pilots were getting Usair longevity for MDA time I, and many other pilots would have taken a position there BUT it was clearly spelled out that the pilots were NOT active USAir pilots.

 

[ALGFLYR]

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you can bid off Ted or Song if your seniority can hold it. The MDA guys could NOT bid off the 170...

This is one of the reasons for the ongoing lawsuit, it was a recall to mainline but was not treated as such...

 

[get2flyin]

This is one of the reasons for the ongoing lawsuit, it was a recall to mainline but was not treated as such...

If it wasn't treated as such...why did the guys go back?