Urgent: Should I file NASA form?

[JediNein]

If it fails in flight when you need it, are you going to climb outside the aircraft and wrap it with a screwdriver?

No, but I did get a transponder working again inflight by cussing it out. I took great pleasure in ripping out its little power supply and replacing it after landing (IAW all applicable repair manuals, repair station manuals, procedures, processes, and so on).

(say, trying to outrun the frenzied bloodthirsty hoard in a combat zone...)

Only if they are shooting at you.

What mechanic is going to advise you to wrap on that pump and then go fly?

Not this mechanic. And if you do that in front of me as an SOP, when it should be replaced, you won't like the result.

File a NASA ASRS form, it is a get-out-of-sanction-free form. If the action attracted the attention of the Administrator in a negative fashion, you'll still enjoy the full FAA investigative process all the way up through the full NTSB board appeal. But, when the judge smacks the gavel on the table, you'll only get the record, not the actual suspension or revocation if the violation meets all of the critera set forth by the ASRS program. If the action did not attract the Administrator's attention, it only took some time and you never know when your observations might spark an action that saves lives.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[wingnutt]

There is no flight which MUST be made. Get-there-itis kills.

...agreed

What is it about being in LA that is such an emergency that one must fly?

...have you ever been to the backwoods of Louisiana? note, i did not say downtown new orleans...and i also never said it was me

 

[FearlessFreep]

Anytime you have any doubt that you might have; keywords here: inadvertently, unknowingly (at the moment of occurance), unwittingly, unintentionally etc. have broken any FAR's then by all means fill out an NASA ASRS (Aviation Safety Reporting System) Form. The thing is if you have intentionally gone out and done something illegal do not expect that the system will "protect" you. Don't go out buzz your girlfriend's house and then fill out an ASRS form.

The whole purpose of the program is sort of an amnesty program for getting safety related information regarding air operations (including cabin ops), maintenance and air controller actions. Reports come from numerous different sources in the aviation community from air carriers to J-3 drivers. There are also a number of different types of forms for people to use. This information might not usually be "shared" when the proverbial Sword Of Damacles of enforcement actions from the FAA are present. By giving this "amnesty" it is hoped that safety related information of potentially dangerous situations will be disclosed to create awareness to others or these issues could be addressed. These safety related incidents might otherwise go un-noted with the hope of just avoiding an enforcement action.

You can fill out the form as many times as you want. I have a folder full of them as I keep copies of every one that I have ever filed. It will only be good as a defense against an enforcement action only once every couple of years - I don't remember the interval off the top of my head and I believe that it has recently been shortened. I have heard rumors of cases in which the ASRS was unable to protect some individuals in some cases. In these circumstances blatant disregard of the regulations were involved.

If you are using the form as protection against a possible enforcement action it is imperative that you file the report within 10 days of the incident. When I send in forms I usually will get a proof of mailing from the post office. I have heard of some people that will send it in registered mail with a return receipt.

A couple of other things about the system. Fill out forms for any safety related item, even if it has nothing to do with an enforcement action. I have actually received calls from the ASRS regarding a report that I filed. Filing that report created an issuance of a NOTAM of a potentially very dangerous condition that exists at an airport. In that case I did not breach an FAR but I felt it was necessary to advise someone of the conditions that existed. One of the side effects of filling out the form is that it gives you the opportunity to review objectively in your mind just exactly what happened.

When you send in your form the header information is stripped from it to maintain "anonimity". You will receive it in the mail a few weeks after it was received. Enclosed in the envelope with your "receipt" (header strip) you will get current information on the ASRS system, a copy of Callback and a subscription form for Callback. Callback is the monthly newsletter from NASA ASRS that relates to salient safety issues that were reported by others. I strongly suggest that you get a subscription as there is lots of good information in those newsletters.

Here is a link to their website where you can find forms and more up to date information.

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/main_nf.htm

 

[TransMach]

ASRS Reports

Guys,'

Avbug is absolutely right! The ASRS system is intended to collect safety related information so that NASA can go tell FAA/NTSB/Industry what needs to be changed. It is not, at all, about avoiding a sanction cuz you've screwed the pooch.

Honestly, I've filed quite a few, including one last week about "Follow Me" procedures at SEA. Never once did the event include me and a sore pooch.

When something goes wrong and safety is compromized you should fill out the report. It's all about safety!!

TransMach

 

[mattpilot]

in the words of the great Ali G ...


booyakasha wha g'wannin', check yoself before you wreck yoself.

 

[Daveman]

When something goes wrong and safety is compromized you should fill out the report. It's all about safety!!

TransMach

Regardless of what the reports were intended, people file them every day 'cus they "srewed the pooch" and want to cover their arse.
A guy creeps on a runway w/o clearence, busts an altitude etc...A safety issue, yes, but these guy's are following the CYA. No institution will ever make those incidents more safe by reading a NASA report. (Maybe put a RxR crossing gate at the hold short line?)
I'll bet money most guys use the quote above as a guide regarding those reports.

3 beers.

 

[JAFI]

Jacko, What exactly would you put on that NASA form, "I flew an aircraft that I thought was working only to find out a pump was not"? I agree with the posters that you should have made sure a fuel pump is working by knowing what indications should happen after you push the switch. I would ask you if the aircraft battery was dead and you turned the key, do you think the engine should be turning?????

First, I say fill out all the NASA forms out you want. You are only filling the data base with safety proplems. That is what it is there for. It helps agencies plan/look at/ wonder about/etc. safety concerns.

Next, how do you guys think the "FAA" finds out what you wrote in the heading of a NASA form? In my experience, The pilot does something wrong and tells the FAA that they filled out a NASA form. The FAA has to verify that one was filled out for the court case. FSDO's do not have to troll for viotations, they show up with out much assistance.

IMHO all pilots need to learn as much about the machine they are flying they can. Also learn weather, the airway system, teaching/learning techiniques, and yes the dreaded FAR's.

Jacko, I would not lose any sleep over the pump. I would learn what to look for during preflight and run up.

JAFI

 

[JetBlast2000]

as far as you knew last week everything was working fine, nothing illegal or intentionally wrong with that...

While I don’t think it’s a major issue, ignorance is no excuse. Just because you didn’t know about something, doesn’t in and of itself get you off the hook. If the plane had crashed in part because of the fuel pump on say, the next flight. Weather you knew or not, you bet you arse you would need AOPA legal. I remember my flight school busting everyone who flew a 172 for the previous 3days from the point an oversight was noted. It turned out that the plane over flew a 100-hour inspection. Everyone missed it. Yet all those who violated the inspection were called on the carpet. No action was taken, just a stern warning. Nonetheless, if you’re PIC, we all know what that means. Heck even if you NOT PIC the FAA can bust you. Chalk it up to a lesson learned and be more vigilant…

So, are you going to get in trouble… probably not! Just make sure it gets fixed before YOU take the a/c.

 

[GIVDrvr]

Just food for thought...I would not recommend filing these reports without some consideration for the fact that these forms are scrutinized and frequently forwarded to FSDO or FAA Air Traffic. Often ATC tapes, if pertinent are pulled, and sometimes further investigation is done. If you are found to be in violation of the FARs, even though you may avoid a certificate suspension, the violation can still be recorded against you. Always a nice addition to the resume. Also be aware for all enforcement considerations that effective 2003, ATC tapes which used to be preserved for 15 days are now archived for 60 days. Happy New Year to all.

 

[rumpletumbler]

For God's sake...the guy flew an a/c with an inoperative fuel pump and didn't realize it. What kind of a mega jackass is going to lower the boom on him?