Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
Urgent: Should I file NASA form?
- Thread starter jackotron
- Start date
- Watchers 17
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
FN FAL
Freight Dawgs Rule
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2003
- Posts
- 8,573
Maybe you and your instructor should send in NASA reports, at the very least it will qualify both of you for a discount...jackotron said:
http://retail.tempurpedic.com/nasa.asp
B6Busdriver
pushbutton pusher
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Posts
- 902
flyfastinmy10
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2004
- Posts
- 77
AA717driver
A simpler time...
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2003
- Posts
- 4,908
D
deez_nutz2000
Those fuel pumps in the Warriors are $hit! I bet you 5 bucks you can get it to work. Go out with a screwdriver, turn on the pump inside, and tap on the pump. It is a ticker pump.....we had this problem all the time with our Warriors and it always worked. Its just like tapping on the starter in your car when it wont turn over. Try it...or at least have one of those CFI's try it. Ask a mechanic about this and I'll bet they'll tell you this should work.
mattpilot
Finally! Graphical TFRs!!
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2003
- Posts
- 1,144
careful when filling out nasa forms.
Do not put anything incriminating into the headline (thats the part the FAA gets to see). If the FAA sees a headline that indicates you violated rules, they can get you anyway - and best of all, you sent in the evidence yourself. And in your main story, also be careful what you write - try to not lay any blame on yourself.
Do not put anything incriminating into the headline (thats the part the FAA gets to see). If the FAA sees a headline that indicates you violated rules, they can get you anyway - and best of all, you sent in the evidence yourself. And in your main story, also be careful what you write - try to not lay any blame on yourself.
You can file all the "NASA" reports you want. What you should fill out in this case is the ASRS report.
I'm very disappointed to note that without exception, every reply seems to consider the ASRS reporting system as a loophole setup; it's there to save your butt. It's not. That's a side benifit to encourage you to report safety related items, but the system was not designed, nor ever intended, to get your but out of jail. The only reason that the provision allowing you to be relieved or serving an enforcement penalty is even there, is to encourage reporters to submit without fear of recrimination.
This is also the purpose of the anonymity of the system.
Should you file a ASRS report? Absolutely. You have encountered something that's safety related and might benifit others. For that reason, and that reason alone, you should file the report.
Unless you state in the topic line "knowingly flew an airplane in an unairworthy condition," then the topic line won't be used against you, and the body of the report is protected for you and sanitized to prevent it's use against you. The only exceptions are criminal acts and aircraft accidents.
Two other things caught my attention in this thread, both are of great concern. One is that you need to understand that any time you move a control, switch, lever, whatever, you need to verify that the action you desire has taken place. Listen for pumps, look for fuel pressure rises, check to see that something has occured the confirms your action has indeed resulted in what you wanted it to achieve.
The pump is electric. If you don't have a fuel pressure gage, then check your voltmeter for a bump or the ammeter for an increase when you turn on that switch. This still doesn't tell you that the pump pressure is adequate, but it does tell you that your switch has turned on something that has a load; it's completed the electrical circuit.
If the pump always makes noise, and suddenly does not, never assume it's just a really good pump. Check it out. Lesson learned, there.
The second thing I noted concerns me even more. As provided by deeznuts:
How about if you ask this mechanic if it should work? NO!!!
If your pump isn't working, then you need to find out why. If you're having to free it up internally, then you don't want it on your airplane. If it fails in flight when you need it, are you going to climb outside the aircraft and wrap it with a screwdriver? Of course not. Don't look for legal loopholes; do it right. Don't look for little tricks to make equipment work when the equipment isn't functioning properly. That kind of foolhardy mentality will get you killed one day.
Your airplane is not a car. Simply because someone tries to free a starter solenoid by wrapping on it (when it should be replaced), this does not give you carte blance authority or reason to do the same stupid thing in an airplane. An airplane is not a car. You cannot pull over to the side of the road.
Further a starter motor functions quite differently and is composed of parts very different to a fuel pump. While both employ a motor, both do not use a start solenoid, and it's the starter solenoid that you're freeing up in the car. If your fuel pump is hanging up, you've got a problem. Don't fly the airplane. The starter solenoid in your car is only needed during the start process, and then it's job is done. The fuel pump in some airplanes is a continuous duty item; it should be working. You can usually fly on suction feed, but why would you take off under anything less than emergency circumstances (say, trying to outrun the frenzied bloodthirsty hoard in a combat zone...) with inoperative necessary equipment? Don't do that.
What mechanic is going to advise you to wrap on that pump and then go fly? I'm certain some would. When you find them, steer clear of them. You don't want their advice. It's dangerous.
I'm very disappointed to note that without exception, every reply seems to consider the ASRS reporting system as a loophole setup; it's there to save your butt. It's not. That's a side benifit to encourage you to report safety related items, but the system was not designed, nor ever intended, to get your but out of jail. The only reason that the provision allowing you to be relieved or serving an enforcement penalty is even there, is to encourage reporters to submit without fear of recrimination.
This is also the purpose of the anonymity of the system.
Should you file a ASRS report? Absolutely. You have encountered something that's safety related and might benifit others. For that reason, and that reason alone, you should file the report.
Unless you state in the topic line "knowingly flew an airplane in an unairworthy condition," then the topic line won't be used against you, and the body of the report is protected for you and sanitized to prevent it's use against you. The only exceptions are criminal acts and aircraft accidents.
Two other things caught my attention in this thread, both are of great concern. One is that you need to understand that any time you move a control, switch, lever, whatever, you need to verify that the action you desire has taken place. Listen for pumps, look for fuel pressure rises, check to see that something has occured the confirms your action has indeed resulted in what you wanted it to achieve.
The pump is electric. If you don't have a fuel pressure gage, then check your voltmeter for a bump or the ammeter for an increase when you turn on that switch. This still doesn't tell you that the pump pressure is adequate, but it does tell you that your switch has turned on something that has a load; it's completed the electrical circuit.
If the pump always makes noise, and suddenly does not, never assume it's just a really good pump. Check it out. Lesson learned, there.
The second thing I noted concerns me even more. As provided by deeznuts:
How about if you ask this mechanic if it should work? NO!!!
If your pump isn't working, then you need to find out why. If you're having to free it up internally, then you don't want it on your airplane. If it fails in flight when you need it, are you going to climb outside the aircraft and wrap it with a screwdriver? Of course not. Don't look for legal loopholes; do it right. Don't look for little tricks to make equipment work when the equipment isn't functioning properly. That kind of foolhardy mentality will get you killed one day.
Your airplane is not a car. Simply because someone tries to free a starter solenoid by wrapping on it (when it should be replaced), this does not give you carte blance authority or reason to do the same stupid thing in an airplane. An airplane is not a car. You cannot pull over to the side of the road.
Further a starter motor functions quite differently and is composed of parts very different to a fuel pump. While both employ a motor, both do not use a start solenoid, and it's the starter solenoid that you're freeing up in the car. If your fuel pump is hanging up, you've got a problem. Don't fly the airplane. The starter solenoid in your car is only needed during the start process, and then it's job is done. The fuel pump in some airplanes is a continuous duty item; it should be working. You can usually fly on suction feed, but why would you take off under anything less than emergency circumstances (say, trying to outrun the frenzied bloodthirsty hoard in a combat zone...) with inoperative necessary equipment? Don't do that.
What mechanic is going to advise you to wrap on that pump and then go fly? I'm certain some would. When you find them, steer clear of them. You don't want their advice. It's dangerous.
Again, there's a difference between a starter solenoid which must only work once, and a continuous duty fuel pump, or a fuel pump which may be needed at any time during flight.
Answering your question is virtually impossible; without knowing what's wrong with the unit. You may have broken brushes causing problems. What caused the brushes to break? What caused the vibration? Or is the gen bearing going out? If you have a magnesium framed starter generator (many do), then you're looking at an uncontrollable class D fire if it develops the friction or a partial seizure. Do you want to deal with that in flight?
What is it about being in LA that is such an emergency that one must fly?
There is no flight which MUST be made. Get-there-itis kills.
Answering your question is virtually impossible; without knowing what's wrong with the unit. You may have broken brushes causing problems. What caused the brushes to break? What caused the vibration? Or is the gen bearing going out? If you have a magnesium framed starter generator (many do), then you're looking at an uncontrollable class D fire if it develops the friction or a partial seizure. Do you want to deal with that in flight?
What is it about being in LA that is such an emergency that one must fly?
There is no flight which MUST be made. Get-there-itis kills.
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
