UPT "Checkrides": How Long and Where are Records Kept?

[SirFlyALot]

I have a few very practical questions that I think would be of interest to many Air Force pilots. Many airlines ask whether or not you have ever failed a checkride. How long does the Air Force hold onto records of our performance during pilot training? Where can I find the records? What information regarding pilot training can an outside agency (airline) obtain? How can I get a copy of my own UPT records?

I am not asking whether the "checkrides" we took in UPT were actually real FAA checkrides. My AF Form 942 lists every checkride I have taken since pilot training but I have not found or seen anything that documents my performance during pilot training. Anecdotally, I have heard that the information is purged and that there is no way to obtain it. Is this true?

I know this question is probably a perfect set up for people who would like to flame me for issues of integrity and honesty but I see it as no different than someone who wants to see a copy of their driver's records before they submit the info to the airline.

 

[ivauir]

At least for me my T38 instrument checkride is listed. But, from a "practial point of view" if you bust a UPT checkride aren't you in danger of washing out of UPT? They sure felt like checkrides to me. In terms of being "purged" the only way your airline is going to see any of your military record is if you provide it. Just give em what they ask for and RTFQ. If you struggled through UPT it won't matter if now you are the chief of stan eval.
DONT KEEP SKELETONS IN YOR CLOSET - you'll act weird at the interview as you worry if they find your "secret". Come clean on your blemishes, put your best foot forward and pray (hope). How you did on your two ship T-38 checkride won't matter, it won't even be a tie breaker. On the other hand if you bust a checkride everytwo years going back to UPT .... KMIH (Kmart is hiring)

 

[LJDRVR]

Dude,

I can't help you with the specifics of whether or not you would be "found out", but I would say this: Hooking a ride in UPT is an opportunity for you to discuss with the interviewer what kind of aviator you've become. It shows honesty and growth as an individual. (You were able to overcome_____, learn from it and progress not only to a winged aviator, but an Aircraft Commander on a MWS.) The simple truth is almost all of us have a busted ride at some point in our past, you almost wouldn't be credible if you didn't. I'm 24 and 1 myself.

Approached with the proper attitude, a hook early in your career is actually a bonus, as it allows the interviewer more insight into your personality and abilities than "I've never had one" does. That having been said, there are probably several types that would be hard to explain. Anything recent, any initial qualification in type, and most certainly any failed upgrade.

Good Luck!

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Approached with the proper attitude, a hook early in your career is actually a bonus, as it allows the interviewer more insight into your personality and abilities than "I've never had one" does. That having been said, there are probably several types that would be hard to explain. Anything recent, any initial qualification in type, and most certainly any failed upgrade.

Fully concur.

 

[AlbieF15]

Actually, I signed a contract in early 2003 to buy the copyrights to all UPT graduates after 1991's checkride records. I've got them on microfiche and if I even get a hint any of you "tanker pukes" or "min-FAR scum" (anyone who knows what that means is old...) tries to bluff your way through an interview I'll make copies and send them in to your chief pilots.

Seriously...only Form 8 checkrides are maintained. Your AFORMS have your student time, but more than likely NOT an individual sorties. Your UPT checkrides are PHASE CHECKS, not Form 8s. So...to answer your questions more than likely the checkrides are history.

However...c'mon...a UPT checkride was a big deal when you took it. Its obvious even if you struggled in UPT you went on to better things, so personally...I'd look 'em in the eye and say "well...I never busted an AF Form 8 checkride but I did bust my T-37 midphase and T-38 formation check during UPT. Took my 88 ride, moved on, then went on and had a great time flying the (x) at (x) AFB".

Lots of guys busted checks at UPT and went on to have great careers. I'm one of those guys, and odds are the guy interviewing is too. Lighten up, tell the truth, and move on...

Cheers

 

[AMRCostUnit]

"min-FAR scum" (anyone who knows what that means is old...)

LOL! I know what that means so I am old. I have tried to purge those terms from my memory banks.

BTW, did you get my PM?

Unit

 

[kelbill]

I dealt a lot of UPT/PIT checkride issues, and there is no way in hell anyone will find the records if they still exist. As stated by someone above, the instrument check at the end of UPT was the real one, and if you busted that the first time around, only the pass will show up on your records/FEF anyway. That is when you get your wings. Until then, you are joe bag of donuts. That would be like them asking you if you had a bad ride during spin training in your C172 while a civilian. You're a student, not checked out yet. Why should any airline care if you hooked your two ship T38 form check?

I think you can consider any question regarding checkride busts to pertain strictly to POST-UPT, unless specifically including it. And do so with a clear conscience.

Sounds like AlbieF15 was one of those UPT students who had a Guard job waiting for him and so could have impregnated the Wing CCs daughter and still got FARed. Geez, I wish I had been. A Guard guy that is, not impregnated.

 

[C-17->Majors]

Hooking a checkride in the civilian world is a BIG deal, at UPT it is a matter of due course. The prog rides we took at UPT were not really checkrides, you had no wings. There is no record of them that I have ever heard anyone confronted with at an interview or afterward. Getting an interview is had enough these days, don't give them a reason not to call you!

 

[AlbieF15]

14 years active duty...no Guard baby here. Flew the OV-10 out of UPT, so yes...I was "min FAR scum". Actually, I was "FAIP BAIT" but the Lord blessed me with 4 classmates who were ATC volunteers...so I slipped through the cracks (STS)

I did date a FAIP's sister (a Miss State beauty!) but never dated a wing CC's daughter. I do, however, have a co-worker/bro who once dated a 4-star's daughter. Talk about "high risks"....

 

[SirFlyALot]

Thanks for all of the replies so far!

Please let me be clear. I am not asking about the wisdom of telling an airline about a UPT bust. I understand there are pros and cons to it. I understand that many people do not consider UPT "checkrides" to be actual checkrides. However, those debates are separate from what I am trying to find out with this thread.

The bottom line is I am simply asking if the Air Force maintain records of our UPT "checkrides" after UPT and for how long. If they do maintain records, who can gain access to those records? Can I get access to them?