UPT Checkride busts

[RedDogC130]

Well, the question is whether or not it is a CHECKRIDE vs a progress check. Many civilian and airline training programs have progess checks along the way to see if you can move to the next phase of training. If you bust a progress check, you will not move on in training or require additional help. Those do not consitute an failed checkride. A failed checkride is for a rating or license. The "checkrides" at UPT are technically prgress checks. They are not for ratings or licenses. The Form 8 ride on the other hand is for a rating in a particular aircraft. This is how I see it, thus why I assume some companies want to see the Form 8s you may have had last. Why druge up something that is not what the questions asked. If they said, Any failed progress checks and checkrides? Owning up to something is one thing but why own up to something that is not really true. Any opinions on the this new way of thinking about it?

 

[PlaneStupid]

Look at your 942 (if you are an AF pilot). The first entry is your last T-38/T-1a check. If you passed this one and the your other checkrides following this one, then the answer is no busted check rides. It's that simple my friends.

.02

 

[RedDogC130]

Remember some do not go throught -38 or T-1s. Some go through C-12 or T-44s. Doesn't say that on anything I have on record. Training reports, yes but checkride/form 8s, no. easy as that.. they are progress checks. My 2 cents.

 

[firstthird]

Like Albie said. Either you are the kind of person that wants to argue about semantics and keep you record 'clean' or you are the kind of person that wants to make sure everything is up front and avoid possible misunderstandings. If you are justitfying why the 'pre-wings' 'interstage' 'no form 8' 'not an FAA examiner' checkride wasn't a checkride, then that will probably work out okay. But if, on the off chance you get questioned about it during the interview, what answer are you most comfortable explaining. "I got that bust 10 years ago for forgetting to retract my landing lights." or "well, you see, that wasn't really a checkride since I wasn't winged yet, so I didn't count that."

 

[RedDogC130]

The point being, that there will be no record of it that would show up during the interview. I am just saying from my point of view which just went through the interview process recently with a couple of companies from a major to a regional and nothing was ever brought up about UPT which was my most recent flying at the time. The point about keeping something clean or to avoid misunderstandings is a little extreme. Nobody has defined whether it is or is not a checkride. Keep reading about being up front about something that could be a non issue, like logging instrument time. Were you IMC or were you VMC....well it was kind of.....lets not log IMC time just in case the interviewer was watching the weather channel and did see the satelite view of Oklahoma and possibly did not see that cloud. Come on. I am done with this trend. Sorry for the rambling but I debates like this. But do not forget to tell them about the time you took that extra mint from the counter at the restaurant. Would not want them to think you are not honest.

 

[Pistlpetet]

UPT is no differnet then going thru a Part 141 training program. If you bust one of those checkrides there is nothing on your record unless it was for a license. Like the saying goes....Nice/honest guys finish LAST.

 

[firstthird]

Pistlpetet "Nice/honest guys finish LAST."

I guess we'll have to disagree on that one. That is what the thread boils down to though, own up to it or use some rationale to say it doesn't count. IMO.

Airlines are looking more for integrity than they are for the next 'ace of the base' who never failed a checkride. Do they always find it? No.

To be clear, I'm sure that thousands of guys have busted a checkride in UPT and answered no to this question and never had a problem with it. I'm also equally sure that there are a few who had some explaining to do in an interview and really, really wish they had answered yes.

Has anyone ever lost an airline job because they failed a UPT checkride? I doubt it, but maybe. Then again, would you really want to work for that company.

Has anyone ever tanked an interview because the interviewer, rightly or wrongly, felt that they had 'caught out' the interviewee in an untruth. Undoubtedly. Almost any mistake/error in the past can be a non-issue if you have a good lesson you learned from it and it is far enough in the past (bigger the mistake, farther back it should be, ideally). But there is almost no way to recover from an interviewer even beginning to doubt your honesty, so just don't put yourself in the situation where it might happen.

 

[RedDogC130]

Here is the question...Is failing a PROGRESS CHECK the same as failing a CHECKRIDE? Please answer YES or NO

FOR THE RECORD MY answer is NO

UPT events are progress checks not checkrides...

 

[TonyC]

These airlines are asking me if I have ever busted a checkride on the applications...

I've read the threads, read the opinions, contemplated the different views, and believe I have reached my opinion on the matter. I don't recall completing an application that asked about checkrides, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't asked about them at my interview.

The application is not a test of integrity, it is a vehicle for the applicant to convey to the prospective employer his qualifications and skills. If the Box is checked YES for a T-37 Mid-Phase, it will count against the candidate with the same weight as another applicant's ATP bust. I do not believe that is the intent of the application. If I were filling out an application and the only busts I have had were UPT checkrides, unless it was the final checkride that also produced the first Form 8, I would answer NO.

On the other hand, if I were asked during an interview, "Have you ever busted a checkride?" I would answer, "Well, I don't think you'd consider it a checkride, but I did have a similar experience. During Air Force pilot training, we had progress rides that we called checkrides, and I really embarrassed myself on one of those." Now, we all know you're supposed to just answer the question, and don't volunteer more information than is needed. In other words, if the question is, "Have you lived in Boondocks all your life?" you answer, "Yes, I have." There's no need to go into your life story, a list of your addresses and girlfriends, your favorite pizza place, and the place where you got your first kiss. So, I'd leave it at that unless I got some signal from the interviewer's body language or a followup question before I expounded on the stupid thing you did on the Mid-Phase.



As an aside... I got to thinking about the first Form 8 thing... when I completed UPT, the Form 8 check was the T-38 Instrument Check. It was a 2-leg cross country, mission-planned, filed, and flown. I busted mine before I left Base Ops. England AFB has a VOR/DME, not a TACAN. I filed to the VOR/DME (the VOR Freq and DME Channel were both listed on the chart, I just used the DME channel instead of a TACAN channel). The T-38 needed a TACAN. I fixed the flight plan, flew the sorties, did the instrument work, completed the table-top EPs afterwards, and got scheduled for a 3-hour ground eval with the Squadron Commander the next day. There's not a symbol or depiction on any type of chart or plate that we didn't go over. He was a nice guy about it, and we had a great time. He even taught me the constant bank-angle method of maintaining an arc - - how to compute the appropriate bank angle. Anyway... before the story gets longer... My Form 8 showed an E, with no mention of the bust. My AF 942 shows an E for the ride - - no reference to the UNSAT, or the "event" that I had to accomplish to remedy my deficient mission planning. Given that I technically busted that ride the first time, I wonder if there are any guys that got an UNSAT on their first Form 8, or show an UNSAT on the AF 942.


OK... to review

Application - NO

Interview - use it as an "I learned from that" example




My 2 ¢

 

[Pistlpetet]

Tony,
I agree with your rationale, and I think that is a perfectly acceptable way to go about things.