UPT advice

[TankerDriver]

Having guys go to the bathroom to change into a flight suit before a sortie? Then back into blues for a debrief? There's a freakin' war going on for God's sake. Stupid beyond belief and I don't understand it.

As much as I agree, this isn't just an AETC thing. It only takes a little while in the AF to know that if one guy poops his drawers, everyone wears diapers. That's the way it's been and the way it'll always be.

We've got 1st shirts being sent to the desert to play PT gear Nazi's and turn you away at the chow hall if your socks are too short or because you're wearing unauthorized patches on your flight suit after you just came back from a 9 hour mission over Iraq. Do you really think a flight commander at UPT who hasn't deployed in 2+ years is going to associate UPT to this "war" we're in?

 

[Scrapdog]

As much as I agree, this isn't just an AETC thing. It only takes a little while in the AF to know that if one guy poops his drawers, everyone wears diapers. That's the way it's been and the way it'll always be.

We've got 1st shirts being sent to the desert to play PT gear Nazi's and turn you away at the chow hall if your socks are too short or because you're wearing unauthorized patches on your flight suit after you just came back from a 9 hour mission over Iraq. Do you really think a flight commander at UPT who hasn't deployed in 2+ years is going to associate UPT to this "war" we're in?

Exactly my point as well...AETC is not about getting a dude ready to deploy and fight, AETC is about training the guy on how to fly formation and do some decent military patterns. If that takes making the guy wear blues for a few weeks to be a team, so be it - it's such small potatoes in the long run, who really cares. Once the guy gets to ACC in his F-16 or A-10 or AFSOC in his MC-130, then you can spin the guy up to go to war effectively, but that's not AETC's job.

 

[NTS ALL 4]

Blues?

I wouldn't know where to find my blues or even my BDUs. Air Guard and Air Reserves is the only way. The Active Duty types are wound way too tight! Especially at the AETC level.

 

[McGillicutty]

Do you really think a flight commander at UPT who hasn't deployed in 2+ years is going to associate UPT to this "war" we're in?

Why not? Chances are, most grads these days know they'll be flying over Afghanistan or Iraq by the time they're done. Sorry, Duece is right. There are far better techniques than blues. Fortunately, as of three years ago most Flt/CC's aren't using that worthless punishment.

 

[stonewall]

I agree with Deuce on this one. If anyone is having trouble in UPT, there are much more imaginative and effective ways to helping someone without punishing (did someone actually say "hazing??") the entire flight. Formal release is one thing...at least you can spend time in the flight room studying or chair flying or something. Keeping formal release til everyone gets their act together can at least be useful.

Wearing blues as a motivational tool? Not seeing it. Just more of the "I did it, you have to do it" garbage. We need to get back to "Fly, Fight, Win," and antics like this are just that...antics.

 

[Otto77]

I agree with Deuce on this one. If anyone is having trouble in UPT, there are much more imaginative and effective ways to helping someone without punishing (did someone actually say "hazing??") the entire flight. Formal release is one thing...at least you can spend time in the flight room studying or chair flying or something. Keeping formal release til everyone gets their act together can at least be useful.

Wearing blues as a motivational tool? Not seeing it. Just more of the "I did it, you have to do it" garbage. We need to get back to "Fly, Fight, Win," and antics like this are just that...antics.

Yeah..speaking of which we just got put in blues for the whole week because 2 folks are having problems showing up on time for ********************...I think its rediculous to take it out on all of us..cant wait to get back to my AFRC unit ha!

 

[Goatpilot]

I have a similar story with a happy ending: My class was placed in blues POST-Solo due to recurring grade book errors. Like mentioned earlier, it was a real pain to "dress-up" between sorties/sims. Imagine leaving your blues hanging in the bathroom. Our "buds" in other flights thought it would be great fun to switch name tags and conduct other uniform buffonary. Needless to say I had business at MPF one day and the MPF Chief (a Captain if I remember right) asked me why I was wearing blues. I told her the truth...gradebook errors. She wore blues and asked me if I thought it was punishment to wear the service dress of our country. My answer was of course not but a Flt CC holds all the cards and it was a battle not worth fighting as a Tweet student.

A few days later during formal brief, our Flt CC informed us we no longer had to wear blues. During a discussion about it with some of the IPs later, it was mentioned by them that apparently one of us had talked to a MPF chief, who BTW works directly for the Wing CC, who in-turn complained about officers being punished by wearing their uniform. The subsequent firestorm came down from above pretty quick and pretty hard. Life was still rough after that in "THUNDERBOLT" but at least we were in bags again.

 

[K-Mart]

I have a similar story with a happy ending: My class was placed in blues POST-Solo due to recurring grade book errors. Like mentioned earlier, it was a real pain to "dress-up" between sorties/sims. Imagine leaving your blues hanging in the bathroom. Our "buds" in other flights thought it would be great fun to switch name tags and conduct other uniform buffonary. Needless to say I had business at MPF one day and the MPF Chief (a Captain if I remember right) asked me why I was wearing blues. I told her the truth...gradebook errors. She wore blues and asked me if I thought it was punishment to wear the service dress of our country. My answer was of course not but a Flt CC holds all the cards and it was a battle not worth fighting as a Tweet student.

A few days later during formal brief, our Flt CC informed us we no longer had to wear blues. During a discussion about it with some of the IPs later, it was mentioned by them that apparently one of us had talked to a MPF chief, who BTW works directly for the Wing CC, who in-turn complained about officers being punished by wearing their uniform. The subsequent firestorm came down from above pretty quick and pretty hard. Life was still rough after that in "THUNDERBOLT" but at least we were in bags again.

"T-Bolt" was everything bad about the Air Force rolled up into one flight. What a horrible place to be.

 

[hindsight2020]

yeah, those flights still exist, bringing down morale one class at a time. Lots of bitter souls at AETC. I guess it makes sense to bring down the students, after all misery loves company. The only saving grace I've found is that as a Reservist I get to bail out of this qweep at least eventually, some of my active brethren won't be so fortunate.

As to the value of formal release, I don't see it. It's another monkey wrench in the bag of distractions that detract from the mission at hand. Even so, it would be somewhat bearable if set up for only a few weeks. But when the expectation is to be on it for the whole duration of the training Phase, yeah good luck convincing anybody of its value, particularly to the USN/USMC who could have been in NAS Whiting in the big boy program..ouch! I wouldn't mind graduating 6 months later for that peace of mind. Mother Blue might have inherited the budget, but the more time I spend in the joint training environment the more convinced I become that our maritime counterparts inherited all the common sense.

 

[KarmaPolice]

No, my point is the GWOT and hazing a few UPT studs have nothing to do with each other. If the flt cc felt the need to put dudes in blues, so be it. Peer pressure to get your act together can be a great motivator for some. I think we were on formal release in 38's for like 4 months. Did it suck? Yes, but now that I'm out of there, who cares? Maybe it's done to expose us early to following useless and stupid regs/orders that seem to never cease trickling down from senior leaders even today.

Dude, really. You're coming off as a serious tool. it's kind of freaking me out.