UPS suspends captains

[nightrider]

At least one captain has been suspended by UPS for 2 months without pay by the company for exercising his authority and bumping jumpseaters. Don't know how this will turn out in arbitration. But this is about to get nasty I think.

N

 

[Wise Guy]

I hope it gets ugly. We might as well press to test on this one in federal court since currently the company is scheduling P3 whenever they want without impunity. Captains authority is most definitely under attack.

 

[scoreboard]

I hope it gets ugly. We might as well press to test on this one in federal court since currently the company is scheduling P3 whenever they want without impunity. Captains authority is most definitely under attack.

Thanks for sharing, but if your bringing it, make it so we know what your talkinbout plz Whats P3? Why would Capts say no?

 

[New FDX Guy]

Good luck to all the UPS fellows/fellas. It probably will get ugly quickly, hang in there.

It won't be fun while it's going on, but will be worth it in the end...kind of like being married? Oh, I drifted...good luck!

NFG

 

[Wise Guy]

Sorry, forgot the audience, P3 is company scheduled deadhead for positioning or de-positioning. (ie, it saves them buying a commercial ticket) This from a company that cleared a billion with a B last quarter. Captains would say no for many reasons, but most likely due to overcrowding issues. The cockpit facilities for an long haul flight are totally inadequate for humans. Imagine 6 dudes in a compact car on an 8 hour road trip with no stops. That should give you the picture. It is absolutely a safety issue.

 

[mosdef]

just curious, what plane can hold 6 in the cockpit?

 

[de727ups]

All of them except the 727.

 

[CKJET]

So who is he bumping? Other Brown pilots or pilots from another airline?

 

[AA717driver]

So who is he bumping? Other Brown pilots or pilots from another airline?

It doesn't matter. The Captain should have the final authority in this matter.TC

 

[Dizel8]

by me

 

['72Gremlin]

So who is he bumping? Other Brown pilots or pilots from another airline?

Brown "management" pilots, maybe?

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

[quote='72Gremlin]Brown "management" pilots, maybe?[/quote]

No. UPS postions and depositions pilots on company aircraft and labels them as Priority 3. It may not sound bad but our 767s have no bunks and you end up with 50 year old dudes sprawled out on the floor of the cockpit. Whenever the FO or CA get out of the seat to take a piss, they end up stepping all over the jumpseaters. Somehow UPS lobbied the FAA and the Feds issued a statement that CA's can't bump someone just because they are a P3. The P3s that were being bumped were happy about it some of the time since it meant that they would be getting a commerical ticket. Then again scheduling would just try and get them on another UPS plane.

 

[SWAdude]

It may not sound bad but our 767s have no bunks and you end up with 50 year old dudes sprawled out on the floor of the cockpit. Whenever the FO or CA get out of the seat to take a piss, they end up stepping all over the jumpseaters.

Can't wait to take a ride on you guys. uke:

 

[PurpleTail]

I really don't mean this in a bad way but that is something you HAVE to fix in your next contract. IMHO that is a serious safety hazard as far as proper rest and being mentally fit to start your next assignment.

Our company is REQUIRED to purchase an airline ticket to reposition any crewmember unless it is under a 3 hour call out for a reserve assignment. Otherwise, if the reposition is shorter than 5:30 of block=Coach and anything over 5:30 block is booked in First. If Brown builds your trips with company DH's I feel bad for you guys if your seats in the back are as bad as our planes...ouch.

FWIW...we get pretty HEAVY handed emails from our SCP stating that if you bump as jumpseater than you better had a damn good reason for doing it and expect a sit down to defend yourself. We've been down that road with management before and PIC authority is PIC authority, PERIOD!

Good luck.

 

[freightdogfred]

I'm gettin' ready to bump a few Browntail jumpseaters myself...Some of them are lacking a little in etiquette. (Like saying thanks to the guy who just hauled yore ass where you're goin, and waitin fer the payin folk to git off, before you block the aisle getting yore bag) I talked to my buddy who's a MD-11 drvr, he said just give him a name and he'll handle it from there. I'd rather his own peeps embarrass him, and save me the trouble.

 

[ptarmigan]

I think what's confusing some of the non-UPS people here is that they have never been on a UPS 767 or some of the others to see the configuration. What UPS did was remove the cockpit wall/door and extend it all the way to the L1 door on that side (the galley area is just aft of the L1 door). It is a narrow passage, as they configured it so they could fit an extra container adjacent to that on the right side of the aircraft. That wall comes up to just aft of where the cockpit door/wall would have been. There is a lav on the right side, and some seats against that wall. To get to the lav, someone has to step over the legs of the jumpseaters sitting there. There is NO separate courier area, so the entire thing is 121.547, unlike the FedEx configuration, where non-crew jumpseaters can be carried aft of the IRCD under similar legality to a pax carrier.

 

[de727ups]

"PIC authority is PIC authority, PERIOD!"

Not anymore.

From the UPS chief pilot:

"To clarify, a priority 3 crewmember’s presence on the flight deck that is within contractual flight deck occupancy limitations will never create an overcrowding situation justifying a PIC’s denial of admission."

 

[TWAER]

I'm gettin' ready to bump a few Browntail jumpseaters myself...Some of them are lacking a little in etiquette. (Like saying thanks to the guy who just hauled yore ass where you're goin, and waitin fer the payin folk to git off, before you block the aisle getting yore bag) I talked to my buddy who's a MD-11 drvr, he said just give him a name and he'll handle it from there. I'd rather his own peeps embarrass him, and save me the trouble.

Every airline has these people. I have had almost every kind of jumpseater on my aircraft and every once in a while you get some guy who shows poor etiquette. And yes, one call to the Union or Jumpseat chair. should settle it.

 

[whymeworry?]

Poor guys (and gals). This is no way to reposition crews. That said, if it wasn't in the contract to get a commerical ticket what did you guys really expect? The company is taking y'all for a ride by exploiting a loophole in your contract that you need to close. While the fight is still on, be glad this exploitation was revealed whilst in negotiations... and not after a 5-8 year deal was signed.

1) Let your NC and MEC know how pissed you guys/ gals are
2) There are other ways to send the company a message rather than punishing the piots who are just trying to get home (meant for those who didn't want to get bumped)
3) Clearly, by the idiotic CP statement, the company has drawn it's line in the sand on this issue. Send them a message in another way that won't get a pilot fired but that willl make them rethink how they treat the asset managers (pilots).