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UPS pilots have a TA!

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Another tradeoff on bonus verses retro....(just me thinking out loud)

The F/O who drops 20% of his trips and mil leaves a few other trips here and there will get the same bonus that a guy busting his butt working extra will make.. Retro favors the productive, an equal bonus favors the min run types.

Another question--can you roll the bonus into your 401k? I'm sure you still have IRS max contribution limits, but for those guys who don't max the thing out this might help them make that happen.

Not taking sides here...just pointing out some tradeoffs.
 
AlbieF15 said:
Another question--can you roll the bonus into your 401k? I'm sure you still have IRS max contribution limits, but for those guys who don't max the thing out this might help them make that happen.
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Yes, you can choose to deposit any or all of it into your 401k (up to IRS limits).
 
6010C said:
"Sub par" is vague. I look at the captain's pay and see industry leading X's 13 pay periods. What am I missing? And what do you mean by a 15 year contract?
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6....

Industry leading? c'mon now let not get pathetic here. It might be an industry leading Capt pay NOW, but if you wish to compare apple to apples well... lets give it a shot.

Take the best year old mother delta did and I believe it was around 1.2 Billion in profits. I could look it up, but too lazy and its close enough. Now top captain there was making 318 an hour in the good ole days. Nope not looking for big brown to pay that much in this contract, cause it just aint gonna happen. Now UPS's best year of around Ohhhhh I dunno..... 4 Billion net profit in a year.... and thats the money they were NOT able to hide. Then they come out after 4 years and want to pay what FedEx is offering their pilots. 223 an hour. Now I know the shape of the rest of the industry, but these cirlcle of geniusus are making money hand over fist. So for you to say its industry leading...well that would mean it would have to be better then 318 dollars an hour. And always remember.... pay is just one of the issues. Health bennies are going to go up... .scheduling changes to include 18 hours of deadheading so they can use a crewmemeber for another day overseas... the list goes on and on.

Anyways.... the bonus is going to be given out in two parts and from all the guys I've been flying with want it all at once. Last time they gave it out in three parts and thats a big pill for these guys to swallow. Just my humble opinion..... but leading industry wages..... paaahhhhleeeeeaaasssseeee.



As for a 15 year contract? They started negotiating in 2001 and its suppose to be good, IF SIGNED, till 2011 and then add another 4 years to negotiate another contract and there you have.... ahem... ok 14 years.

BBB....

I agree with you 100% as far and setting a precedence(sp?). maybe we could get one of the grammer and spelling police like FN FAL the tool to check my post.... eh???????
 
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The only fair thing to do is to have some sort of profit sharing. Guess what, that ain't gonna happen at big brown. I actually don't think the pay rates are bad. It's parts of the rest of the contract I have some problems with. And I have not read the whole thing.

Anyone out there that thinks your pay rate has anything to do with the billions and billions UPS makes, is in for big disappointment. It may not be "fair" but just because UPS can afford to pay me 1 million bucks, does not mean they are gong to.
 
From Albie
Another tradeoff on bonus verses retro....(just me thinking out loud)

The F/O who drops 20% of his trips and mil leaves a few other trips here and there will get the same bonus that a guy busting his butt working extra will make.. Retro favors the productive, an equal bonus favors the min run types.
Click to expand...

I don't feel sympathetic to guys/gals who may possibly get a smaller retro check because they were dropping trips or using mil leave...........they're getting paid by Uncle Sam and earning a seperate retirement.

Flying my 100% BLG in Memphis, barely......
 
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15 year contract

Networking...

We started negotiating in Oct 2002, not 2001 as you claim. The amendable date was 31 Dec 2003. So for the last two and a half years we have been operating under the old contract.

If you want to claim you will have to live under the contract for longer than the end of 2011, that is no doubt accurate. But to claim we started in 2001 and will take four years after the amendable date in 2011 to complete a new contract is just plain inaccurate.

If you look at the contract before this one, the ta was reached over two years after the amendable date. Two to three years seems to be the norm not the exception.

JMO

Aviator7576
 
Networ-King said:
6....

Industry leading? c'mon now let not get pathetic here. It might be an industry leading Capt pay NOW, but if you wish to compare apple to apples well... lets give it a shot.

Take the best year old mother delta did and I believe it was around 1.2 Billion in profits. I could look it up, but too lazy and its close enough. Now top captain there was making 318 an hour in the good ole days.
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that was back when the dollar had value, too!
 
Aviator7576 said:
Networking...

We started negotiating in Oct 2002, not 2001 as you claim. The amendable date was 31 Dec 2003. So for the last two and a half years we have been operating under the old contract.

If you want to claim you will have to live under the contract for longer than the end of 2011, that is no doubt accurate. But to claim we started in 2001 and will take four years after the amendable date in 2011 to complete a new contract is just plain inaccurate.

If you look at the contract before this one, the ta was reached over two years after the amendable date. Two to three years seems to be the norm not the exception.

JMO

Aviator7576
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OK....

I stand corrected..... so what? 10-13 years? You sir are right... that IS much better:rolleyes: . All I was trying to point out that it is not the simple 4 or 5 year contract.
 
Sandman.... I agree with you. I just think that companies will try to throw a bonus (vice retro) pay to avoid having to pay retro down the road. The double edge sword is they then reward their less productive employees and slap their workhorses. I'm probably more of the former than the latter (oh heck...I AM the former!) so I wonder how our negotiating team will do when they try to structure a TA. The company seems more than willing to bitch-slap some its most loyal and productive folks to save a buck--witness the instructor TA that is already inked. Other than block 1, the most loyal and "company friendly" group of guys is the instructor cadre. When push came to shove, the company was glad to tweak their work rules and whittle down some of their perks. I know there were some instructors disappointed in how hard the union fought for them, but the fact is it was the company that went after those concessions. For a group (meaning management) that seemed to want to divide and conquer the membership, they seem to shoot their most loyal subjects first. (Remember their 3% offer and its across the board signing bonus?) FedEx has some tough negotiatiors, but their actions since I've seen them work have only pulled the pilots together even more. If I was a loyal flex guy or guy who had for years worked extra trips, I'd be asking "...why would they do that to ME?..."
 
Anyone know who Lil J. Seinfeld is on airline pilot central?

He needs his head examined or an ass kicking!!

What a selfish bastard?

How does a guy like him get a Job at UPS. I'm gonna look up his new hire class!!
 
6010C said:
$318 sounds good to me. I didn't do the 10 year lookback at contracts.
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Ummmm ....

10 year look back? LOL you're kidding right. I think those pay scales lasted till about 2003. As a matter of fact Delta pilots took pay increases until 2003 then the company got the 1 Billion dollar concession and everything went to he!!. It might have been 2002, but its all the same.....It aint no 10 year look back.... know what I mean vern?
 
Whats up in the trip rig/ duty rig dept? Days off? Scheduling? These pay rates are hard to comprehend without the min day pay and rigs. I would fly Capt for $130 an hour if you paid me 12 hours a day!!
 
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Networ-King said:
Johnny,

Were you a Delta pilot that made it to big brown? ;) Sorry couldn't resist, that seems to be the exact mentality for my old "brothers and sisters" with the double douc h e suit. ME AND MY FAMILY. ME ME ME ME ME ME...... and hence the reason why the industry is in such a sh!tty place. If I vote yes for this contract I would benefit greatly from it, but like others have said first year pay, scheduling, health benefits, and top captain pay is sub par at best. Try thinking about the whole group instead of whats just good for you, cause remember, that captain pay is going to be YOUR pay sometime and this is going to be a 15 year contract. Amendable in 2011 and another 4 years for a new contract?:rolleyes: A signing bonus that is going to get taxed up the wazoo and you end up with half. NICE. Not trying to tell you how to vote, but I've already seen what happens when "its just about me attitude" put that vote on paper. IMHO unity is suppose to mean something, and not just a word.
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thank you for your thoughts and advise. unity is important and should mean something. we once were united- however enter the tom/jim years. so you may want to save your advise or send it to tom. don't expect a reply. before anyone brings bob into the equation- i can only thank tom/jim for our situation and this t/a. so if you are junior and think the pay sucks (new hire or less than 4 years) do two things- send tom/jim and email expressing your position and then send cindy and dean an email thanking them for stepping up to correct the fo pay slope. (fixed- not completely but ask tom what he had in mind for you)

jc
 
Considering everything, is retro pay or a bonus better?

I understand it differs based on the individual, but I'm thinkin' that retro makes them accountable for every day the contract wasn't signed and a bonus is just a number thrown out to appease people. Retro would be definative and would set the precedent for future contracts where the bonus could possible go down with future contracts. What have the pilots accepted in the past?
 
Flybwoy said:
Anyone know who Lil J. Seinfeld is on airline pilot central?

He needs his head examined or an ass kicking!!

What a selfish bastard?

How does a guy like him get a Job at UPS. I'm gonna look up his new hire class!!
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An ass kicking!!?? I'd really like to see you try. PM me with the time and place.
 
typical pilot myopia

Someone posts a few lines of hourly pay and everyone is already analyzing the contract. Management know we do this and this is why so many other items fall through the cracks in the language.

IMO, since pay is the last thing agreed to in negotiations it should be the last thing presented to the pilot group. Make everyone sift through every line of language in hours of service and scheduling and then and only then, the pay rates get presented IF they are happy with the rest of the contract.

Just curious, on a seperate but related subject. I read that the defined b plan was not improved, but do not know if this is accurate. How many retreads are there at ups and what is going to happen if they all run for the door at once?


Good luck to the ups guys, if this is an improvement I am happy for all of you at BigB. Now go buy your negotiating team several rounds.
 
There is a LOA in the TA that will give 2500 bucks per pay period for those who will stay around. Then the company and crewmember can set a later separation date. This will keep some of the retreds from running for the door if the TA is passed. As far as numbers go, on the 8, there are very few non-retreds left on the panel. I would guess that the top 100 or so out of 139 are retreds. And that number will probably be zero by the fall.
 
Dude I hope you put your flame suite on with comments like that-
 
Flybwoy said:
How about the GMM meeting sunday PUNK!!
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Oooh Oooh- I can't wait to watch this.....I'll bring some popcorn! :smash:
 
capt. megadeth said:
You gonna be there? I'll see you there for the action.
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Nope- won't be able to make it. Take some pictures for me. :laugh:
 

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