UPS pilots have a TA!

[AlbieF15]

What is your trip/duty rig? Rates are only part of the equation. How many hours per day (or 24 hour period) do you get paid?

 

[PurpleHaze]

It has been said that first year pay expresses what the company feels it's employees are worth while subsequent years expresses what the union can negotiate.

If it truly expressed what typical management feel it's pilot's are worth the pay would be ZERO... After all, "why should they pay their SLAVES."

 

[EMBPILOT1]

Just wondering if there is any overide pay for A-380, or is a 15 year A-380 Capt. going to make the same as narrow body Capt.

Well, if the A-380 even shows up here during the life of this contract, then a A-380 Capt. would make the same as a 72 Capt. I would guess when the time comes closer to delivery, then a LOA could be drafted to increase that pay rate.

 

[EMBPILOT1]

OK OK and now back to the thread topic. More details on the TA please. Heading to work today and want some good info for stimulating cockpit discussions. No seriously, lets have some of the highlights! ...please!

One highlight I just read is that the company is going to build 100 private sleeping rooms in SDF for crews. Gonna be fun watching people run for those every night. Won't have to worry about slow taxi speeds in SDF anymore.

 

[Green]

UPS pilots,

what do you think the chances are of this TA passing considering the payrates vs. FedEx rates?

 

[PurpleTail]

Medical is going up, but that was expected. Have not read the scheduling section yet, which is in my opinion, the most important.

Again, first year pay, most disappointing.

What do UPS pilots pay NOW per month for medical (family) and how much does it go up to in the new TA?

Currently at FDX we pay $90/mth (family) but management is trying to get it increased to over $400/mth for a spouse & kids.

Just trying to get an idea of what you guys mean by 'increase' in medical.

 

[1st Overnite]

I can't imagine guys voting this in with just the signing bonus and no retro pay. If that is the case, expect the next contract negotiations to go even slower. I'm pretty sure CoEx got retro pay and if they can do it, you guys should be able to.

 

[DH106]

For first year pay, $33/hr. is an improvement over the present $26/hr.

 

[av8trix]

Medical Increases

Right now, I don't pay anything for medical. I'm not sure what the guys with families pay. If I read the existing contract correctly, they don't pay anything either if they are under Option 1 (there are three). Under the new plan, I would pay $22.22. I tried to cut and paste but it's a mess. If I did employee plus, it would be $47.27. If I had a family plan, I would pay $65.00. These are the 2007 numbers. By 2011, employee only is $64.00, employee plus is $136.00, and the family plan is up to $186.00.

Dental is currently $2.00 for me, and it would go up to $5, vision is $1 and it goes up to $2. For families,under the new plan, it would be $15 for dental and $5 for vision. Dental and vision stay the same for the next 5 years.

Feel free to correct me if I have these wrong.

 

[EMBPILOT1]

What do UPS pilots pay NOW per month for medical (family) and how much does it go up to in the new TA?

Currently at FDX we pay $90/mth (family) but management is trying to get it increased to over $400/mth for a spouse & kids.

Just trying to get an idea of what you guys mean by 'increase' in medical.

Actually I get about some money back for my whole family. Paying more for medical is not big deal for me seeing my last job had a medical plan that cost me over 100 a pay period.

First year pay is a big deal to me. That needs to go up as far as I am concerned. I did it, but unlike others at UPS, I don't have this mentality that because I did do it, all newbees should have to do it. to me, it is just wrong to pay someone less than they pay interns for the experience they require to get hired.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Actually I get about some money back for my whole family. Paying more for medical is not big deal for me seeing my last job had a medical plan that cost me over 100 a pay period.

First year pay is a big deal to me. That needs to go up as far as I am concerned. I did it, but unlike others at UPS, I don't have this mentality that because I did do it, all newbees should have to do it. to me, it is just wrong to pay someone less than they pay interns for the experience they require to get hired.

I agree with you 110% here.

 

[JohnnyCash]

embpilot: ok. if you think new-hire pay is unsat. and after reading the full t/a vote how you feel. its just that easy folks- you get a vote. you don't have to go online and try and sell your point of view to others. honestly i could give a care.

the question of the 380. great question. but.. what about the 75 or bus guys banging around leg after leg- what is their diff/override? what about the 8 guys- that machine desires an override as well- right. watch those pods.

how about the jr. based fo based in anc on the 74 or md- where is there override?

should we pay the 72 folks less? sorry wrong airline.

jc

 

[propjob27]

should we pay the 72 folks less? sorry wrong airline. jc

No, of course not. But you should pay the widebody guys more. Sorry, wrong airline.

 

[Joey]

Interns at Brown make more than 1st year new hires. It's a shame.

 

[capt. megadeth]

embpilot: ok. if you think new-hire pay is unsat. and after reading the full t/a vote how you feel. its just that easy folks- you get a vote. you don't have to go online and try and sell your point of view to others. honestly i could give a care.



jc

Well, at least you are honest......obviously not on first year pay then????

Why can't he give his opinion? I am sure a lot of people will be trying to "sell" their point of view during the vote.

 

[EMBPILOT1]

embpilot: ok. if you think new-hire pay is unsat. and after reading the full t/a vote how you feel. its just that easy folks- you get a vote. you don't have to go online and try and sell your point of view to others. honestly i could give a care.

jc

I am not trying to sell anything because I have not read the whole TA. And even when I do, I will never come on here or the B&G and try and sell my point of view. I was just venting on how I don't agree with the first year pay. I also don't agree with some of my fellow pilots that say that because they did it, all new guys should do it. After reading most the posts on here, I am one of the few that is not selling, slamming, praising, endorsing, or rejecting this TA.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

embpilot: ok. if you think new-hire pay is unsat. and after reading the full t/a vote how you feel. its just that easy folks- you get a vote. you don't have to go online and try and sell your point of view to others. honestly i could give a care.

jc

You go Johnny. Those pesky newhires outta feel LUCKY to be on the property. Maybe they should carry your bags too.

When you are a Captain think about newhire pay when you avoid your FO on a layover because he/she is a bit of a knob.

You get what you pay for.

 

[JohnnyCash]

i guess my point is: each member has the right and responsibilty to read the full contract and make a vote based on their situation and how it will impact their family (good or bad).

jc

 

[JohnnyCash]

You go Johnny. Those pesky newhires outta feel LUCKY to be on the property. Maybe they should carry your bags too.

When you are a Captain think about newhire pay when you avoid your FO on a layover because he/she is a bit of a knob.

You get what you pay for.

you are funny. thank you for your kind words.

jc

 

[Networ-King]

i guess my point is: each member has the right and responsibilty to read the full contract and make a vote based on their situation and how it will impact their family (good or bad).

jc

Johnny,

Were you a Delta pilot that made it to big brown? Sorry couldn't resist, that seems to be the exact mentality for my old "brothers and sisters" with the double douc h e suit. ME AND MY FAMILY. ME ME ME ME ME ME...... and hence the reason why the industry is in such a sh!tty place. If I vote yes for this contract I would benefit greatly from it, but like others have said first year pay, scheduling, health benefits, and top captain pay is sub par at best. Try thinking about the whole group instead of whats just good for you, cause remember, that captain pay is going to be YOUR pay sometime and this is going to be a 15 year contract. Amendable in 2011 and another 4 years for a new contract? A signing bonus that is going to get taxed up the wazoo and you end up with half. NICE. Not trying to tell you how to vote, but I've already seen what happens when "its just about me attitude" put that vote on paper. IMHO unity is suppose to mean something, and not just a word.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Everyone thinks everyone should fall on thier sword... except themselves...

 

[Falconjet]

Thw whole point of the vote is to give EVERYONE their opportunity to voice THEIR opinion on the contract. Naturally it is human nature to like something that is good for yourself.

The negotiating committee needs to remember that when they deal with the company and not sell out one faction of the pilot group for another. If they are successful at that the majority will vote the TA in and life goes on.

To expect individuals to not vote for their own self interest is pretty unrealistic.

Best of luck to our brothers and sisters at the big Brown.

FJ

 

[6010C]

Johnny,

Were you a Delta pilot that made it to big brown? Sorry couldn't resist, that seems to be the exact mentality for my old "brothers and sisters" with the double douc h e suit. ME AND MY FAMILY. ME ME ME ME ME ME...... and hence the reason why the industry is in such a sh!tty place. If I vote yes for this contract I would benefit greatly from it, but like others have said first year pay, scheduling, health benefits, and top captain pay is sub par at best. Try thinking about the whole group instead of whats just good for you, cause remember, that captain pay is going to be YOUR pay sometime and this is going to be a 15 year contract. Amendable in 2011 and another 4 years for a new contract? A signing bonus that is going to get taxed up the wazoo and you end up with half. NICE. Not trying to tell you how to vote, but I've already seen what happens when "its just about me attitude" put that vote on paper. IMHO unity is suppose to mean something, and not just a word.

You have to pay taxes on our earnings????? I guess we all should all vote no. Great logic Net.

 

[EMBPILOT1]

I think his point is that the signing bonus will be taxed at a higher rate than retro pay. I could be wrong but that's the way I see it.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I think his point is that the signing bonus will be taxed at a higher rate than retro pay. I could be wrong but that's the way I see it.

Both are treated as "ordinary income" on your return. UPS will INITIALLY withhold taxes at a higher rate for retro/bonuses (IRS requirement), but it all sorts out correctly when you file your return based on AGI and your tax bracket. All else being equal, you will be due a refund for your overpayment of tax (due to the higher withholding rate for retro/bonus).

From the company's point of view, I believe the bonus vs. retro title has more to due with establishing a precedence.

BBB

 

[boost]

True and Not true. Yes you will get taxed on the bonus like it is ordinary income but usually the companies pension and savings plans do not treat bonuses as "pensionable income." That means that the company does not have to contribute their 11 percent for your B Fund nor can this bonus be included for one of your years of top pay when calculating your A plan benefit. Full or partial retro pay would be treated as normal income so the company would be obligated to contribute the proper amount like they do every month and it could be factored in your "high five" like we have here at Fedex. Time to review your benefits book but I would be surprised if this isn't the way it is...unfortunately.
So...it is a HUGE advantage for the company to pay a signing bonus as opposed to retro pay for this and the other reasons already mentioned.

 

[Uppercrust]

Johnny,

Were you a Delta pilot that made it to big brown? Sorry couldn't resist, that seems to be the exact mentality for my old "brothers and sisters" with the double douc h e suit. ME AND MY FAMILY. ME ME ME ME ME ME...... and hence the reason why the industry is in such a sh!tty place. If I vote yes for this contract I would benefit greatly from it, but like others have said first year pay, scheduling, health benefits, and top captain pay is sub par at best. Try thinking about the whole group instead of whats just good for you, cause remember, that captain pay is going to be YOUR pay sometime and this is going to be a 15 year contract. Amendable in 2011 and another 4 years for a new contract? A signing bonus that is going to get taxed up the wazoo and you end up with half. NICE. Not trying to tell you how to vote, but I've already seen what happens when "its just about me attitude" put that vote on paper. IMHO unity is suppose to mean something, and not just a word.

The contract does sound pretty pathetic, especially if you can't renew it till 2011/15. That's what you get from a trucking company. And, i couldn't agree more about the ME comments.

 

[yaks]

"Everyone thinks everyone should fall on thier sword... except themselves"

Funny, thats what the Eastern pilots did and what did it get them? Folks on this board falling all over themselves to defend Air Tran.

 

[6010C]

Johnny,

Were you a Delta pilot that made it to big brown? Sorry couldn't resist, that seems to be the exact mentality for my old "brothers and sisters" with the double douc h e suit. ME AND MY FAMILY. ME ME ME ME ME ME...... and hence the reason why the industry is in such a sh!tty place. If I vote yes for this contract I would benefit greatly from it, but like others have said first year pay, scheduling, health benefits, and top captain pay is sub par at best. Try thinking about the whole group instead of whats just good for you, cause remember, that captain pay is going to be YOUR pay sometime and this is going to be a 15 year contract. Amendable in 2011 and another 4 years for a new contract? A signing bonus that is going to get taxed up the wazoo and you end up with half. NICE. Not trying to tell you how to vote, but I've already seen what happens when "its just about me attitude" put that vote on paper. IMHO unity is suppose to mean something, and not just a word.

"Sub par" is vague. I look at the captain's pay and see industry leading X's 13 pay periods. What am I missing? And what do you mean by a 15 year contract?

 

[Big Beer Belly]

True and Not true. Yes you will get taxed on the bonus like it is ordinary income but usually the companies pension and savings plans do not treat bonuses as "pensionable income." That means that the company does not have to contribute their 11 percent for your B Fund nor can this bonus be included for one of your years of top pay when calculating your A plan benefit. Full or partial retro pay would be treated as normal income so the company would be obligated to contribute the proper amount like they do every month and it could be factored in your "high five" like we have here at Fedex. Time to review your benefits book but I would be surprised if this isn't the way it is...unfortunately.
So...it is a HUGE advantage for the company to pay a signing bonus as opposed to retro pay for this and the other reasons already mentioned.

As far as UPS goes (don't know and frankly don't care to know how other companies deal with this) ... UPS is NOT including (and has not included in past agreements) A/B, sick, per diem, vacation or any other source of remuneration in their bonus or retro calculations, so it is really a moot point.

BBB