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UPS Pilot Contract 2003
- Thread starter H25BCPTN
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Yea Right!
Put yourself in the shoes of any UPS pilot out there that is not on first year pay. Ask yourself one question: Would you negotiate some of your future earnings in pay and benefits to help out first year pay? Many of us would like to think they would, but reality is they have the attitude " pay sucked when I started and I survived"
Lazyb has a good point. There is no shortage of pilots. $2167 sure does beat unemployment.
Don't get me wrong I am all for better first year pay. I should know my current first year pay falls way below what is required to keep food on the table. But I know next year will be better. I thank God for my current job and pray for you all to finding a good job real soon.
Well back out to my Deer stand I have three tags to fill this month. Glad the family like venison.
Put yourself in the shoes of any UPS pilot out there that is not on first year pay. Ask yourself one question: Would you negotiate some of your future earnings in pay and benefits to help out first year pay? Many of us would like to think they would, but reality is they have the attitude " pay sucked when I started and I survived"
Lazyb has a good point. There is no shortage of pilots. $2167 sure does beat unemployment.
Don't get me wrong I am all for better first year pay. I should know my current first year pay falls way below what is required to keep food on the table. But I know next year will be better. I thank God for my current job and pray for you all to finding a good job real soon.
Well back out to my Deer stand I have three tags to fill this month. Glad the family like venison.
United, American, Delta and FedEx just to name a few of the airlines all have increased first year pay to be more competitive with other companies. This downturn we see now will end sometime and the airlines will be trying to be more competitive to hire the best pilots. Case and point, FedEx vs SWA, the pilot has been offered a job with both. Had that been UPS vs SWA, would he go to SWA just for the first year pay. I am not talking about making Captains pay but enough for the company to get the best pilots, not the ones that can take a hugh pay cut.
Fly Safe
Fly Safe
A few points.
LAZYB is right. There is certainly no problem finding pilots. I've heard there are between 10-15K applications on file.
ByeUSAir has a point. Not many consider it the responsibility of the union to negotiate better pay for new hires, but I don't think many have the attitude of "it sucked for me, so it should suck for you." Most feel it is the company's responsibility to raise it to a more respectable level and that the company should be "embarrassed" by it. I have heard those which say we should make it a point in our negotiations.
H23BCPTN - Anybody that makes the career decision between two polar opposite airlines based on first year pay is not much of a strategic thinker. The type of flying, career earnings potential, lifestyle, etc, etc. couldn't be more distinct. Varsity commuter pilot vs. freight dog.
Not trying to start another SWA vs XYZ, we all have our opinions on that. Just stating the facts.
Cheers, WG
LAZYB is right. There is certainly no problem finding pilots. I've heard there are between 10-15K applications on file.
ByeUSAir has a point. Not many consider it the responsibility of the union to negotiate better pay for new hires, but I don't think many have the attitude of "it sucked for me, so it should suck for you." Most feel it is the company's responsibility to raise it to a more respectable level and that the company should be "embarrassed" by it. I have heard those which say we should make it a point in our negotiations.
H23BCPTN - Anybody that makes the career decision between two polar opposite airlines based on first year pay is not much of a strategic thinker. The type of flying, career earnings potential, lifestyle, etc, etc. couldn't be more distinct. Varsity commuter pilot vs. freight dog.
Not trying to start another SWA vs XYZ, we all have our opinions on that. Just stating the facts.
Cheers, WG
New hire pay will no doubt come up to be more in line with other carriers.
<<Ask yourself one question: Would you negotiate some of your future earnings in pay and benefits to help out first year pay? Many of us would like to think they would, but reality is they have the attitude " pay sucked when I started and I survived" >>
Unfortunately this is the attitude of too many at UPS. Only a few very senior guys run the union and all they care about is getting a retirement funded for years they didn't even work here. They will do this at the expense of the rest of us.
<<Ask yourself one question: Would you negotiate some of your future earnings in pay and benefits to help out first year pay? Many of us would like to think they would, but reality is they have the attitude " pay sucked when I started and I survived" >>
Unfortunately this is the attitude of too many at UPS. Only a few very senior guys run the union and all they care about is getting a retirement funded for years they didn't even work here. They will do this at the expense of the rest of us.
regionalcap
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KingAirGuy
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UPS Newhire pay
Well I have a couple of buds that are now into their 2nd and 3rd year respectively. The 1st year was hard on both of them. They subsidized their pay by being willing to fly anything extra thrown at them. I think its like 26K 1st year. I have heard the number 38K bounced around as the new 1st year pay. I do believe that was offered in a deal management was trying to make to allow non captains as ACOs on the long hauls (it was turned down) This is all rumor 2nd and 3rd hand however.
Also UPS rumor wise (talking to UPS guys at airports on the way to work) New aircraft coming online between 10 and 15 A300s and maybe 5 MD11s. However they will be retiring some more 72s. Again, this is all rumor control, but its nice to hear something positive now and then.
I am fully expecting to hear UPS is going to start hiring sometime next year. They are making money. They do need more pilots.
Good luck to everyone in getting a nice flying job in the New Year (hope I am one of you... remember corporate and living on the beeper isn't that bad, its a flying job!
Well I have a couple of buds that are now into their 2nd and 3rd year respectively. The 1st year was hard on both of them. They subsidized their pay by being willing to fly anything extra thrown at them. I think its like 26K 1st year. I have heard the number 38K bounced around as the new 1st year pay. I do believe that was offered in a deal management was trying to make to allow non captains as ACOs on the long hauls (it was turned down) This is all rumor 2nd and 3rd hand however.
Also UPS rumor wise (talking to UPS guys at airports on the way to work) New aircraft coming online between 10 and 15 A300s and maybe 5 MD11s. However they will be retiring some more 72s. Again, this is all rumor control, but its nice to hear something positive now and then.
I am fully expecting to hear UPS is going to start hiring sometime next year. They are making money. They do need more pilots.
Good luck to everyone in getting a nice flying job in the New Year (hope I am one of you... remember corporate and living on the beeper isn't that bad, its a flying job!
I think we have more important things to worry about than new hire pay....
UPS will get great canidates when we start hiring again no matter what the pay is. Low first year pay is just something most of us had/have to live with. A few may turn away from UPS some day because of the first year pay but there will be many other guys who are also well qualified who can live with it.
I'm not against raising first year pay but I don't think we should give anything up to get it.
UPS will get great canidates when we start hiring again no matter what the pay is. Low first year pay is just something most of us had/have to live with. A few may turn away from UPS some day because of the first year pay but there will be many other guys who are also well qualified who can live with it.
I'm not against raising first year pay but I don't think we should give anything up to get it.
Low first year pay is an insult to the new hire pilot and a disgrace to our pilot group. You don't have to "give something up" to get what you deserve. That's just union speak to cover their butts for being poor negotiators. The myth that you must give something up to get something originated from a simple mind.
I chose UPS over SWA and FedEx because of the long range picture. Given what I know now, the decision may have been different.
UPS management says we are overstaffed and the union says we are understaffed. Based on my experience, I strongly agree with the union. I came here for stability and I hear management insinuate they are close to furloughing?!
The first year pay is humiliating. Yes, I knew it coming in, but having to receive government cheese, milk, cereal, etc to feed my family didn't create that warm and fuzzy for Brown. I exhausted most of my savings trying to keep my home and clothe my family.
The unions were created to help those truly abused by large and powerful companies. While we may have issues that need to be addressed to bring us up to industry standards, our new hires are the only group that are grossly abused.
I will vote NO for a contract that does not adjust newhire pay.
UPS management says we are overstaffed and the union says we are understaffed. Based on my experience, I strongly agree with the union. I came here for stability and I hear management insinuate they are close to furloughing?!
The first year pay is humiliating. Yes, I knew it coming in, but having to receive government cheese, milk, cereal, etc to feed my family didn't create that warm and fuzzy for Brown. I exhausted most of my savings trying to keep my home and clothe my family.
The unions were created to help those truly abused by large and powerful companies. While we may have issues that need to be addressed to bring us up to industry standards, our new hires are the only group that are grossly abused.
I will vote NO for a contract that does not adjust newhire pay.
<<H23BCPTN - Anybody that makes the career decision between two polar opposite airlines based on first year pay is not much of a strategic thinker. The type of flying, career earnings potential, lifestyle, etc, etc. couldn't be more distinct. Varsity commuter pilot vs. freight dog.>>
One might have to make that decision based on first year pay because he has a family to feed and can not put food on the table at $28,000 a year. Don't get me wrong, I have saved over $20,000 so that I can live on the low pay for the first year. However, it would be nice if I didn't have to take out all of my saving that first year.
Fly Safe
One might have to make that decision based on first year pay because he has a family to feed and can not put food on the table at $28,000 a year. Don't get me wrong, I have saved over $20,000 so that I can live on the low pay for the first year. However, it would be nice if I didn't have to take out all of my saving that first year.
Fly Safe
Packdog - I also think the paradigm which says we have to give something up to gain something else is a bunch of *^&%$#@%. UPS will end up with about $4 Billion in profits in this recessionary environment. Overall, we are a well managed company as much as it might pain some of us pilots to admit it. However, there is no reason we cannot obtain an industry LEADING contract in EVERY area. We work for a GREAT company, and they are shrewd labor negotiators... they have to be. I would not agree that our union are poor negotiators, only that they have been battling an 800 lbs gorrilla. What I don't like is the lowering of expectations which seems to be coming out of the EB. "Wait around a while and we may be industry leading...." NOT IMPRESSED. If our negotiation team see's this, rest assured we are solidly behind you.
UPSFO - I got interview invites from AMR, UAL, DAL, SWA, and NWA and came here in the hight of the last hiring boom. In the long term, I think you made the right choice.
Regards, WG
UPSFO - I got interview invites from AMR, UAL, DAL, SWA, and NWA and came here in the hight of the last hiring boom. In the long term, I think you made the right choice.
Regards, WG
tredding@swa
SWA F/O
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2002
- Posts
- 294
jeeze....
The price you pay for a multi-million $$ career.... 12 lousy months of getting by.....
How about this - I am at the top of my previous career path, corporate aviation. It will take me 5 years to break even at my new job - SWA - and I can't WAIT to start!!!!
For SOME of us it is not ALL about the $$$$.
Short term pain for long-term gain - look at the B I G PICTURE!?!?
The price you pay for a multi-million $$ career.... 12 lousy months of getting by.....
How about this - I am at the top of my previous career path, corporate aviation. It will take me 5 years to break even at my new job - SWA - and I can't WAIT to start!!!!
For SOME of us it is not ALL about the $$$$.
Short term pain for long-term gain - look at the B I G PICTURE!?!?
qxeplt
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- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
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- 199
Yeah what the man said
Tredd is right, a very very small price to pay for millions in the long run. Probation pay is better at some and worse at others but once you get that behind you then you're off and running. One measly year out of a average of 20 to 30 years left in your career there. I've been with a regional for the last 6 years and I will make 25 k more my second year at SWA then 6 year pay were I'm at now. I'll take the first year pay cut Gladly... Just look at the BIG PICTURE like tredd said. Besides where else are you gonna go. It's a buyers market out there, if you haven't noticed and I'm sure there's a thousand or more pilots out there that would jump on that in a heart beat if given the chance at UPS even at 2,167.00
Tredd is right, a very very small price to pay for millions in the long run. Probation pay is better at some and worse at others but once you get that behind you then you're off and running. One measly year out of a average of 20 to 30 years left in your career there. I've been with a regional for the last 6 years and I will make 25 k more my second year at SWA then 6 year pay were I'm at now. I'll take the first year pay cut Gladly... Just look at the BIG PICTURE like tredd said. Besides where else are you gonna go. It's a buyers market out there, if you haven't noticed and I'm sure there's a thousand or more pilots out there that would jump on that in a heart beat if given the chance at UPS even at 2,167.00
P3-Adub
Bye Bye !!!
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 195
5 Year Plan ???
Be very careful,
My 5 year plan recently turned into maybe a 10 year plan ! It now appears that it will take a while to get back and even longer to make captain. UAL was upgrading in as little as 4 years when I started and has attained the lofty position of a "big maybe" in making it through this mess. Who knows how long it will take once things recover. Fortunately, like you, I have a corporate background and have found employment outside of the airlines for the time being.
So, it is not all about the money, however in my relatively short stay I saw the end of a contract, negotiations for a new contract, the possible merger with US Air, a turning economy, 9/11, the aftermath, and now more furloughs to come, wow, so much for the dream job ! I know, things WILL turn around and this will be something we all talk about down the road as the bad times. With that said though, I will return when the time comes because it still is a better career in my opinion. The highs are the schedule, career expectation, free travel passes, and the chance to fly the 777 or the 747, well if we keep any 747s.
To keep to the original thread, yes the 1st year pay is meager, just don't bank on the fact that it will improve with a guarantee such as a contract, mgmt has rolled over ours like it was not even there !
Better luck at SWA and UPS !
Be very careful,
My 5 year plan recently turned into maybe a 10 year plan ! It now appears that it will take a while to get back and even longer to make captain. UAL was upgrading in as little as 4 years when I started and has attained the lofty position of a "big maybe" in making it through this mess. Who knows how long it will take once things recover. Fortunately, like you, I have a corporate background and have found employment outside of the airlines for the time being.
So, it is not all about the money, however in my relatively short stay I saw the end of a contract, negotiations for a new contract, the possible merger with US Air, a turning economy, 9/11, the aftermath, and now more furloughs to come, wow, so much for the dream job ! I know, things WILL turn around and this will be something we all talk about down the road as the bad times. With that said though, I will return when the time comes because it still is a better career in my opinion. The highs are the schedule, career expectation, free travel passes, and the chance to fly the 777 or the 747, well if we keep any 747s.
To keep to the original thread, yes the 1st year pay is meager, just don't bank on the fact that it will improve with a guarantee such as a contract, mgmt has rolled over ours like it was not even there !
Better luck at SWA and UPS !
Just a few observations:
1.) No one should be complaining about UPS first year pay because no one is on UPS first year pay. The last UPS class started Sept 2001.
2.) If you are lucky enough to get on with UPS, you CAN easily support your family on 28k: move to Louisville, bid reserve, work 3 days a month and get another full time job.
1.) No one should be complaining about UPS first year pay because no one is on UPS first year pay. The last UPS class started Sept 2001.
2.) If you are lucky enough to get on with UPS, you CAN easily support your family on 28k: move to Louisville, bid reserve, work 3 days a month and get another full time job.
nightrider
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2001
- Posts
- 115
I hope we do something about the first yr. pay rate but most of the pilots don't really seem to care. The opinion that I have seen the most is that first year pilots are not members of the union, and most of the guys feel it should be the companies responsibility to raise first year pay.
In other words if we get it fine, but we won't trade anything for it.
This is not my opinion but it does seem to be the prevailing attitude.
N
In other words if we get it fine, but we won't trade anything for it.
This is not my opinion but it does seem to be the prevailing attitude.
N
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