UPS contract breach

[pilotyip]

We will miss you

Jezze CargoN, that means we won't see you at the Wedge; talking over a beer about starting technics for the R-1820, and neat things we did in the L-188. We go to the Wedge; cause the beer is cheap and we love to talk about flying.

 

[27 driver]

You are right, but they are one of only two worth working for!

Unfortunately freightnazi you are right. Most Legacy carriers have seen 50% to 60% pay cuts. This is a cyclical business and it will come back around though. To what extent is anybody's guess. Good luck to all of us.

 

[pipejockey]

As a 727 FE, you'd probably know the 727 holds about 48K lbs as a -100 and around 54K as a -200. I dunno about the E145, but the CR2 has a MTOW of 53K. You'll never take on that much fuel. But you were being facetious, right?

I have noticed your posts before on this board, who hasn't, but I really feel I must call you out on this one. You really shouldn't talk of things you have obviously no clue about. Where did you get your 727 knowledge? Please don't say some 3 week course at Purdue? About the only thing that knowledge will do for you is get you killed in the actual aircraft if you try to operate it. Why is it you feel that we could never take on full fuel? Well I have done it numerous times. With MGTOW's of nearly 200,000 lbs on several of our aircraft, that leaves over 30,000 lbs of useful load even with the 185,800 lb. inflight flaps 25 limit for our Super 27's, and 40,000 if we use normal flaps 15 takeoff. Which is not a problem if the temps are not excessive, and the runways are not short.

If you had worded your post as not to be so authoritative in its assumed fact, I would not have responded.

As far as UPS not "oweing" any of the contract carriers a job, well the decent thing to do would be to offer us an interview if we meet minimums. I give CAT a lot more credit than the ogers at UPS. CAT has tons of Ryan, and Emery guys. CAT did the right thing, but considering UPS history, I am not surprised that UPS would go out of their way TO NOT interview any contract pilot. And for the guy who brought up the fact that CAT is non-union, well what about the Challenge guys? Were they not union?

And finally to Pilotman700, I don't usually resort to name calling but you crossed the line...You are truly a lowlife!! Only a scumbag would bring up the incident in El Paso and blame it on how someone got their job. Someone who doesn't know anything about the facts surrounding that incident has no business posting disparaging remarks about it, be a man you pusssy!! It was the Captains fault, a Captain that no Check Airman at CAT would sign off except for one. I won't get into the reasons why he was signed off but the subject is somewhat politcally incorrect, if you know what I mean? BTW, the captain is gone, the FO is still there!

 

[27 driver]

And finally to Pilotman700, I don't usually resort to name calling but you crossed the line...You are truly a lowlife!! Only a scumbag would bring up the incident in El Paso and blame it on how someone got their job. Someone who doesn't know anything about the facts surrounding that incident has no business posting disparaging remarks about it, be a man you pusssy!! It was the Captains fault, a Captain that no Check Airman at CAT would sign off except for one. I won't get into the reasons why he was signed off but the subject is somewhat politcally incorrect, if you know what I mean? BTW, the captain is gone, the FO is still there![/quote]

Getem Pipejockey. You are mostly right. There are a lot of good guys at CAT, It was the captains fault, but the FO is now at Comair. That guy should have never been in the left seat.

 

[BoilerUP]

I have noticed your posts before on this board, who hasn't, but I really feel I must call you out on this one. You really shouldn't talk of things you have obviously no clue about. Where did you get your 727 knowledge? Please don't say some 3 week course at Purdue? About the only thing that knowledge will do for you is get you killed in the actual aircraft if you try to operate it. Why is it you feel that we could never take on full fuel? Well I have done it numerous times. With MGTOW's of nearly 200,000 lbs on several of our aircraft, that leaves over 30,000 lbs of useful load even with the 185,800 lb. inflight flaps 25 limit for our Super 27's, and 40,000 if we use normal flaps 15 takeoff. Which is not a problem if the temps are not excessive, and the runways are not short.

My 727 experience not just from some "three week course at Purdue" (it was three full semesters), but I've been through UPS's own -100QF systems initial and simulator course. I've also been through a systems course for the E145 and am currently studying the CR2 for my future employer. At Purdue we learned the -7 engine for the 100 and the -15 for the 200 at Ryan; outside of those configurations I'd have to dig into the books. I've never heard of a "Super 27", but I have heard of 722s with mods taking them over 200K; I presume you operate one? Far be it for me to claim to be a systems expert on the jurassic jet (I'm not), but was anything I said factually wrong?

If you had worded your post as not to be so authoritative in its assumed fact, I would not have responded.

It would seem you are trying to bust my chops. Your point is well taken. I was busting the chops of some condescending FE running her mouth at an RJ captain. If her post wasn't so authoritative in its assumed fact regarding an RJ's MTOW, I would have not responded.

 

[pipejockey]

It would seem you are trying to bust my chops. Your point is well taken. I was busting the chops of some condescending FE running her mouth at an RJ captain. If her post wasn't so authoritative in its assumed fact regarding an RJ's MTOW, I would have not responded.

Yes I was, I am glad you took it well. And touche' about busting the FE's chops! She really should try to be more discreet since she is the only female at CAT and anyone in Dayton will know who she is. Oh, if only I wasn't such a decent person I could tell yall a couple things about her...but I digress.

 

[BoilerUP]

Your point is well taken, as was pipejockey's. Evidently there are 727s that I was unaware of that can, in fact, take off with full fuel and still have a payload capacity. I was wrong.

Now since I've admitted I was wrong and we are no longer talking absolutes, how operationally practical is it for CAT (or anybody else for that matter) to completely fill up with freight on board? Just how often do your 727s "take on more fuel than the gross weight of an RJ" like Ms. latinachick claimed?

 

[boomlrd]

Your point is well taken, as was pipejockey's. Evidently there are 727s that I was unaware of that can, in fact, take off with full fuel and still have a payload capacity. I was wrong.

Now since I've admitted I was wrong and we are no longer talking absolutes, how operationally practical is it for CAT (or anybody else for that matter) to completely fill up with freight on board? Just how often do your 727s "take on more fuel than the gross weight of an RJ" like Ms. latinachick claimed?

We actually do it quite a bit.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Also, just for the record, I don't take any joy in watching ANYBODY lose a job.

The above is someone I don't want to throw down a flight of stairs.

Can't say the same for the person below...

Second, they are going to allow me to watch as you contractors are put on the street looking to whore yourselves out to someone else. That's what brown can do to me!

You, sir have all the subtle charm of a seasick crocodile. One or two people think that Menlo contractors are deserving of preferential interviews at UPS, and now everyone who works for any contractor is scum, a future scab, a bottom feeder, etc. I ask again, what in blazes is your problem? You're blaming US for what your own company did? Why are you happy to see people possibly be in career trouble if their company loses business? Do you really think that we're sitting around, happy that UPS isn't playing right with their pilot union? I know you're just WAY too good to have ever had a job that you considered a time builder or step on the ladder to the next thing, so obviously everyone else who doesn't work for UPS is scum... But really, your attitude is unwarranted and stupid. Be unhappy with your own company, the company that is REALLY responsible for what's going on. Just be happy with your penalty payment that you believe will be a huge chunk of what WE make and stop being such an ass.

 

[BR549]

The above is someone I don't want to throw down a flight of stairs.

Can't say the same for the person below...



You, sir have all the subtle charm of a seasick crocodile. One or two people think that Menlo contractors are deserving of preferential interviews at UPS, and now everyone who works for any contractor is scum, a future scab, a bottom feeder, etc. I ask again, what in blazes is your problem? You're blaming US for what your own company did? Why are you happy to see people possibly be in career trouble if their company loses business? Do you really think that we're sitting around, happy that UPS isn't playing right with their pilot union? I know you're just WAY too good to have ever had a job that you considered a time builder or step on the ladder to the next thing, so obviously everyone else who doesn't work for UPS is scum... But really, your attitude is unwarranted and stupid. Be unhappy with your own company, the company that is REALLY responsible for what's going on. Just be happy with your penalty payment that you believe will be a huge chunk of what WE make and stop being such an ass.

What makes you CAT guys think that you deserve a preferential interview at UPS?

 

[Publishers]

Obviously UPS pilots forget their history when the UPS airline started with a good many pilots from their contractors who made UPS the Tightest Ship in the Shipping Industry. They have forgotten Evergreen, Ryan, Rosenbalm and the others.

 

[airspeedsalive]

I was a dispatcher at Spirit of America when UPS was getting ready to start doing there own flying - didn't UPS start using Orion's certificate?

 

[pilotyip]

Interstate

Don't forget that Interstate was also a UPS carrier and some of thier pilots got on at UPS back in the mid-80's

 

[boomlrd]

What would be so harmful to you by integrating us contractors into the IPA, I think we would be alot more supportive in your cause. If the union at UPS is so strong, then I think if we were integrated we might have some pull as well for getting interviews, right? From the latest rumor UPS has extended our contract for a full year, not just till July as was reported to the IPA, sounds like they will continue to use us as a cheaper alternative.

P.S. FreightNazi is Rhoid, so just ignore him, pure flamebait.

 

[flybrowntails]

i see bringing on more pilots a fantastic idea. the union and membership have supported and proposed many staffing models stating just that--more folks are required. bringing in one group or contract carrier is not the unions call--in the least. the company and the company alone makes the decision who gets to go through the guard shack at 2:00 am.

not that i have any say in this but opinion, i think choosing one group to hire based singularly on their current flying is a poor decision and unfair to many competitive applicants. how about the airtran folks that may wish to hang there hat here, or the fractional pilot, part 135 freight feeders, spirit guys, turboprop 121 pax folks. let's not forget the experience and quality of the military folks. to choose one particular group based on a single point--flying contract menlo freight--would be a disservice to the company and the pilot group. that is to say that a contract carrier should be evaluated and considered based on his or her full portfolio.

LOR, experience and desire seem to be the way folks are getting on.

(looking to see several hundred more folks standing at the coffee line at 3:30 am.)

fbt

 

[BR549]

Deleted due to duplicate post.

 

[BR549]

I'm sure there are lots more competetive pilots to choose from than those at CAT. Those CAT pilots that post here are all PFT and they say that CAT is full of rejects from other carriers who can't find a job anywhere else. UPS would be stupid beyond belief to integrate the CAT pilots or even give the PREFERENTIAL interviews. If they want to work for UPS, let them apply like you and I have to.

 

[OUPilot]

What is the latest with UPS/MENLO and CAT?

 

[needapayraise]

The latest is that UPS will not make the contractual deadline of Dec.20 to hand over the flying due to UPS not wanting to fly TDY out of DAY until the new heavy freight sorts at the existing UPS hubs are finished around the middle of next year. UPS and IPA are currently negotiating a penalty for the contract breach and UPS has stated that they now have a handover date of July 17, 2006. UPS has stated that date is a hard, 100% turnover of flying to the IPA and any breach of that date will be dealt with if needed. The bottom line is this, regardless of what some contractor pilots on this board say, UPS will be handing over ALL of the Menlo flying to the IPA. All of the contractors currently flying Menlo volume will be then free to pursue other flying. If you are a contractor pilot, regardless of what you hear from your management or rumors in DAY, your days(nights) for flying Menlo is numbered.

 

[I.P. Freley]

If you are a contractor pilot, regardless of what you hear from your management or rumors in DAY, your days(nights) for flying Menlo is numbered.

We know our days for flying Menlo is numbered (sic.). No shocker there. Thanks for the update. No hub rumors or management tales say otherwise. Your new, shocking information is much appreciated.