Update - US Airways Recalls

[BenderGonzales]

Anybody see that rumor on the other website? Posted by a guy who calls himself A320av8r:

"Company is sending out ~1700 recall letters.
This will be all the way to the end of the list.
You will either accept recall or forfeit recall rights.
Again, this from a very reliable source.
Looking for ~220 on this next recall for July time frame."

According to the contract, a furloughee is entitled to bypass recall to E190 F/O forever if he/she so chooses. So, who threw us under the bus? ALPA or the company...and if it was the company, will ALPA grieve? Or exchange the furloughees for more comfortable seats in the bus to the employee lot?

 

[PHXFLYR]

Oh, but Bender, Green and his ilk would like to take advantage of the 2500 retirements that are going to occur in the East over the next 8 years. They care not about you or your prospects at the new airline. They would like to see themselves upgrade before an East pilot hired in 1989 ( I'm guessing Green was hired in 2000/2001 ).......



TP[/quote]


Uh...no. Bender,Green and "his ilk" would have liked for nothing more than to have been just America West pilots and have nothing to do with this goat rope of a merger.


PHXFLYR

 

[Turtle21]

Anybody see that rumor on the other website? Posted by a guy who calls himself A320av8r:

"Company is sending out ~1700 recall letters.
This will be all the way to the end of the list.
You will either accept recall or forfeit recall rights.
Again, this from a very reliable source.
Looking for ~220 on this next recall for July time frame."

According to the contract, a furloughee is entitled to bypass recall to E190 F/O forever if he/she so chooses. So, who threw us under the bus? ALPA or the company...and if it was the company, will ALPA grieve? Or exchange the furloughees for more comfortable seats in the bus to the employee lot?

While dmbshts on the other side continue to panick about seniority integration, they fail to notice that USAir sucks too bad to even get people to come back.

 

[PHXFLYR]

But I'm sure you will return eventually now ,won't you?

PHXFLYR

 

[Rabble]

What makes you think that PHXFLYR?

Many of us have found greener pastures and are hanging on to that seniority number for as long as possible simply because it offers us something that is very, very rare in aviation -- an insurance policy.

 

[Swaayze]

Anybody see that rumor on the other website? Posted by a guy who calls himself A320av8r:

"Company is sending out ~1700 recall letters.
This will be all the way to the end of the list.
You will either accept recall or forfeit recall rights.
Again, this from a very reliable source.
Looking for ~220 on this next recall for July time frame."

According to the contract, a furloughee is entitled to bypass recall to E190 F/O forever if he/she so chooses. So, who threw us under the bus? ALPA or the company...and if it was the company, will ALPA grieve? Or exchange the furloughees for more comfortable seats in the bus to the employee lot?

He got clarification that his source was not talking about the 190s. Sounds like they expect to hit the bottom of the list for Group 2 or better for the next (150-200) recalls that are rumored to be coming very soon. Given that they've been through 1000 or so to get 160 for this recall, and with only 600 to go, I suspect they're right.

 

[PHXFLYR]

What makes you think that PHXFLYR?

Many of us have found greener pastures and are hanging on to that seniority number for as long as possible simply because it offers us something that is very, very rare in aviation -- an insurance policy.

Maybe so. But sooner or later a decision will have to be made> What I don't seem to understand is if these "greener pastures" you mention seem to be better than what you had at USAir,why even entertain the thought of coming back? I just don't get it,especially for those who have been furloughed twice .


PHXFLYR

 

[FLYLOW22]

Maybe so. But sooner or later a decision will have to be made> What I don't seem to understand is if these "greener pastures" you mention seem to be better than what you had at USAir,why even entertain the thought of coming back? I just don't get it,especially for those who have been furloughed twice .


PHXFLYR

Seniority is everything. That's why.

 

[Lampshade]

Seniority is everything. That's why.

Do you mean longevity, right, because you have no seniority at the bottom.

 

[BenderGonzales]

if these "greener pastures" you mention seem to be better than what you had at USAir

That is exactly what makes the choice so difficult. What we HAD at USAir, no longer exists.

 

[Rabble]

...and, for that matter, we don't have any idea what DOES exist at USAir these days. Limited idea about payrates, work-rules, benefits, retirement. and we can't even find out what aircraft or domicile we'll be assigned before we accept recall! How exactly are we supposed to make an educated decision?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Do you mean longevity, right, because you have no seniority at the bottom.

Seniority is everything. I saids, whats I saids.

Longevity is like Voltage. Seniority is the Amperage that will kill you.

In regards to being on the bottom... one must then refer to their relative positon as "Juniority". Anything times zero is zero.

P.S. Doug Parker's a drunk.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Do you think that the psychology will change when they begin to work back UP the list again?

I mean let's look at the facts. It's been 5+ years since we were furloughed. We all have other jobs. For most of us we don't NEED to go back immediately (especially at those payrates).

So why not wait and allow a nice cushion of people junior to you to build up? I/E - lots of people passing the first run through the list.

Then, on the "take it or leave it" pass back up, more people will accept since they will have a little bit of built-in seniority?

Or am I grasping at straws?

 

[Lampshade]

Seniority is everything. I saids, whats I saids.

Longevity is like Voltage. Seniority is the Amperage that will kill you.

In regards to being on the bottom... one must then refer to their relative positon as "Juniority". Anything times zero is zero.

P.S. Doug Parker's a drunk.

Jackie Childs has returned...:erm:

 

[FLYLOW22]

Jackie Childs has returned...:erm:

Jackie Chiles

Kramer's high profile attorney who's success is stunted by Kramer's mishaps. Jackie has represented Kramer in the Java World case, the Mishke bra case, the tobacco company case & the Good Samaritan Case.
His doctor is Dr. Bison, his secretary is Suzie, he's practiced law for approximately 25 years, he's also the attorney for Kramer's girlfriend Connie, he eventually puts a restraining order against Kramer, he doesnt like cheese and he dated Sidra Holland.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Seniority is everything. That's why.

It might mean everything but it's worth nothing if there isn't the pay,benefits and retirement to go along with it. And trust me when I tell you, there isn't any of that to be had.At least on the scale that you had it prior to 9/11 and your 2 trips through BK court.


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

if these "greener pastures" you mention seem to be better than what you had at USAir

That is exactly what makes the choice so difficult. What we HAD at USAir, no longer exists.

Then if what you had at USAir no longer exists,what makes the choice about coming back so difficult? Seems to me it would make your choice much more easier,especially if what youre doing now is a better deal,no? Either way, hope you make the decision that's the best for you.

PHXFLYR

 

[Swaayze]

Do you think that the psychology will change when they begin to work back UP the list again?

I mean let's look at the facts. It's been 5+ years since we were furloughed. We all have other jobs. For most of us we don't NEED to go back immediately (especially at those payrates).

So why not wait and allow a nice cushion of people junior to you to build up? I/E - lots of people passing the first run through the list.

Then, on the "take it or leave it" pass back up, more people will accept since they will have a little bit of built-in seniority?

Or am I grasping at straws?

Probably accurate. I expect a higher acceptance on the way up the list. The seniority list will be done. The single contract should be (may be) done shortly after the seniority list. Senior APL pilots will come back with some immediate seniority and avoid bottom reserve.


BTW, are we expecting 26 per month thru December or 26 total through December. Anyone?

 

[Swaayze]

Then if what you had at USAir no longer exists,what makes the choice about coming back so difficult? Seems to me it would make your choice much more easier,especially if what youre doing now is a better deal,no? Either way, hope you make the decision that's the best for you.

PHXFLYR

Well I think the point is that going back to the old U would be an easy decision as it was a great place to work, with great pay, bennies and qol. Now we don't really know what to expect since it seems we'll essentially be working for AWA (where some of us didn't even bother to apply when the Big 6 were hiring so many because it just wasn't at the top of most folks' lists, along with AirTran, Frontier, JB, etc. This isn't meant to be offensive btw, just to offer background as to why it's a bit of a conundrum for some of us in the post 9/11 industry). Plus, until the seniority list and single contract are done it's just a guess as to what the pay and qol will really look like for a LCC pilot.

 

[Crzipilot]

Just to clarify to a few of you. If an additional amount of recalls are announced, they start at the top of the list again. Not at the point this round of recalls ended. So what we might see (May bid has been rolled over to June) is a 1 month bid with 40 recalls. They start at the top of the list and work down. Then another bid with 80 recalls. Again starting at the top of the list and going down. There are quite a few people that did not chose the Pass till last on list, so who knows what they are thinking. Either way it will be interesting. Remember, everyone thought the first group of 190 f/o recalls would zoom down the list, when in reality, they went pretty senior,

 

[vetrider]

Well if its beneath you, don't come back. Simple decision.

 

[Swaayze]

Well if its beneath you, don't come back. Simple decision.

I don't think any of us feel that "its (sic) beneath" us. It's simply a question of what's the best decision for our families and careers. If you got that idea from my post then my apologies.

I'm guessing you've never had to make a "simple decision" similar to this one or you'd know better.

 

[vetrider]

I had a joke back in the mid to late 90's, the quickest way to offend a friend was to offer to help him get on at AWA. I guess I was a little quick to get offended myself over nothing, sorry about that. You definately don't need smart assed remarks from me.

If I did get that from your post it was my own fault, the only one who should apologize is me. Sorry.

 

[BenderGonzales]

The apology was classy vetrider.

Look it's not "beneath" any of us. The fact is we all had our career derailed 5+ years ago. We've all taken different paths to keep flying, support our families etc.

Now we have the opportunity to rejoin the US Airways family and we need to carefully weigh the pros and cons to determine if that is the right decision. Believe me, it is NOT an easy decision to make.

Closing the door on possibly ever returning to a Boeing or Airbus cockpit transcends black and white -- for many of us that was the job we had wanted since we were kids. Now that it's offered again, there is some temptation even if the pay and workrules are somewhat less than at our current jobs. Call it reverse shiny-jet syndrome if you wish.

None of us wants to make the wrong decision. That's all. So forgive us for looking critically at what US Airways has to offer today -- but we need to carefully scrutinize every detail before we put our careers and our families in Doug Parker's care.

 

[Green]

Plus, until the seniority list and single contract are done it's just a guess as to what the pay and qol will really look like for a LCC pilot.

Well I wouldn't hold your breath for any significant pay or workrule changes, unless you're a check airman. Our JNC is weak to put it kindly and our reps seem to be nothing more than a bunch of politicians (with the exeption of las). oh well

 

[FLYLOW22]

It might mean everything but it's worth nothing if there isn't the pay,benefits and retirement to go along with it. And trust me when I tell you, there isn't any of that to be had.At least on the scale that you had it prior to 9/11 and your 2 trips through BK court.


PHXFLYR

I have never been to bankrupcy court.

Please try to make your argument points professional and non personal. It helps to make your point more valid when doing so.

Before 9/11, US Airways paid very healthy wages, had very good benefits and my seniority would have placed me in the #1 position for the last 4 years of my career, flying international widebodies for the last 11 years from the left seat and oh... I should have been a 737 Captain 2 years ago. As far as I'm concerned, I was furloughed because of the after effects of 9/11.

We can all make arguments, they really don't matter though. The arguments that matter (on the record) have already been made.

The arbitrator: his opinion matters.

Don't make me run up to you and give you a big sloppy kiss!! I will, just to see you laugh... or run.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Then if what you had at USAir no longer exists,what makes the choice about coming back so difficult? Seems to me it would make your choice much more easier,especially if what youre doing now is a better deal,no? Either way, hope you make the decision that's the best for you.

PHXFLYR

Me thinks you are adding your .02 because it's what you think is best for you.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Well if its beneath you, don't come back. Simple decision.

And THAT is the million dollar question. It used to be a 5 million dollar question in 1999. In the end, a decision will be made by all of us holding a number.

We thank you for your support in this time of information gathering as we need to make the best decision for us and our families. Yeah, we could be standing next to each other as Brothers soon enough... maybe flying together. Never know.

 

[FLYLOW22]

-- but we need to carefully scrutinize every detail before we put our careers and our families in Doug Parker's care.

Now THAT would make an EXCELLENT bumper sticker.

 

[BenderGonzales]

...or bag tag? I've made some before. <grin>