Update on Pinnacle CRJ crash

[Thedude]

WTF??? I think the blame here falls solely on the FBO personell who didn't sump the fuel truck. I've never even seen a procedure to sump the tanks on any jet/turboprop I've ever flown.

You haven't been around very much then. Most companies (airlines) do have a procedure for the filters on the trucks in the FBO. Check your re-fueling manual or the like and it should be there, probably burried. I once worked for a 135 operator that required, per the FAA approved manual, that the tanks be sumped on all of our jets/t-prps prior to flight. With that being said, sumping light a/c (anything under 30,000 lbs) is primarly meant for those that don't fly on a regular basis. Ie. every day, every other day, three time a day. Turbine engines will burn the water mixed in with jet fuel....just not large amounts of it. The primary concern is icing in the lines, filters and maybe in the fuel controller.

 

[T-Gates]

You haven't been around very much then. Most companies (airlines) do have a procedure for the filters on the trucks in the FBO. Check your re-fueling manual or the like and it should be there, probably burried. I once worked for a 135 operator that required, per the FAA approved manual, that the tanks be sumped on all of our jets/t-prps prior to flight. With that being said, sumping light a/c (anything under 30,000 lbs) is primarly meant for those that don't fly on a regular basis. Ie. every day, every other day, three time a day. Turbine engines will burn the water mixed in with jet fuel....just not large amounts of it. The primary concern is icing in the lines, filters and maybe in the fuel controller.

Yeah, the key to my statement was "anything I've flown". Also every place I have worked I have yet to see a procedure to sump the tanks. It just took my by suprise to see that statement. And to be completely honest, sumping the tanks when I go out to the airplane every night doesn't even cross my mind.

But I'd be curious to see if we really do have a procedure for it, but like you said, it may be buried under something else.

 

[Chairman]

always sucks... but it's part of the business unfortunatly. Everyone be safe out there.

Part of the business are you kidding me. This doesn't happen every day and in just not something we accept as part of the business. More people are killed every day driving there car and when this happens it is a true loss but nothing that is ever just part of the business.

CHAIRMAN

 

[B190Captain]

My deepest sympathies to all families and friends that have felt this tragic loss.

Jesse was a good man and a skilled competent pilot. My prayers go to his family in this time of mourning.

Rest In Peace Brotha!!

 

[ASADFW7]

I respect the wishes of pilots requesting that we not arm chair quarterback, what happened However, we are free to ask questions. Heck, when I get into the CRJ Tuesday, if I find something out that can save my life or anyone else's life, I have as we all do the right to ask questions. We can look into what happened, and see the situation with our own minds. We may not have the correct idea of what it was like to have a double engine failure, when it happens in the simulator we all go through the motions, continous ignition on... However, looking inside a real situation with the ultimate result, straightens the view point, takes the slack out of the line, cuts the delay to zero. I am in tune with what the situation is.

Information needs to travel quickly to keep any event from repeating itself.

 

[CatYaaak]

Even a cold day at 41,000 there would indeed be a relatively small spread between green line (1.27Vs) and MMO but I don't see how that would be a problem in this case, it seemed like it helped them have more time to troubleshoot the problems.

It was the NTSB investigator that actually stated the airplane went into an aerodynamic stall, but this does not make much sense to me. QUOTE]

It does seem strange that it was so specific. Perhaps they gleaned something already from the CVR and FDR, or maybe the NTSB guy is just flat out wrong. Whatever, they'll have access to things nobody here does, like high-level turb, ISA variations that night, on autopilot or hand flying, ATC tapes, etc. etc. ad infinitum. All we can do is wait.

 

[ArcticFlier]

Well, my thinking regarding the stall thing is that when both engines flamed out, there was probably a second of WTFO before the stick shaker/pusher activated and then disconnected the auto pilot. Maybe the NTSB guy mistook the shaker/pusher for an actual stall. WTFK


AF

 

[CatYaaak]

Well, my thinking regarding the stall thing is that when both engines flamed out, there was probably a second of WTFO before the stick shaker/pusher activated and then disconnected the auto pilot. Maybe the NTSB guy mistook the shaker/pusher for an actual stall. WTFK


AF

Time, and the investigation will tell if the NTSB guy was accurate in his statement and if so, what caused the a/c to be in that condition. He could also be completely off base.

As an aside, one thing I DO know for sure though, and that's if I had a dual-engine flame-out there would definitely be a WTFO Moment for me.

 

[dondk]

Information needs to travel quickly to keep any event from repeating itself.

I agree with your statement, and I am slightly offended by my union's/company's position of "don't ask us,we will not tell you".

IF this was in some way pilot induced, a alert bulletin will be in my v-file by the end of the week. For me, that will be the key factor in this tragedy.

Having been at 410 in this equipment, your either riding the green line OR there is not much between you and the green line. I don't personally see how a flameout, then the ADG dropping and the A/P disconnecting puts the a/c into "stall", although if it did happen.. they did recover so what is the point to the statement?

 

[blott]

They could have stalled, rolled it inverted, taken a few turns in a spin , split-S, done a few aileron rolls, and maybe even pull off a loop or two- Bob Hover style...but if they told atc they had the field in sight, and landed two miles short, in between a bunch of houses-not hitting any of them, it sounds to me like they had the ac in control...and did one he11 of a job.

Blue skies....

B