(Unoffical) ASA Stike Vote ... yes or no

[ASA_Aviator]

I ask this question because every "good" thing we have was fought for and won with the union.
You say strike is not the answer, yet your not really offering any real path for achieving what you want. This company will NEVER give you things that make your life better, that is why a union was brought in. Skywest is a completely different corperate culture, though they too are now feeling the strain.
We (the union representing the pilots) have tried to bargan in good faith with ASA. Over a year doing that and nothing happened. We went to the next step, and now with that not working almost 3.5 years later we are tired of ASA not trying to move foward.
Granted that it seems that things are actually progressing now, and if it keeps going at this pace then a strike will not have to happen.
But after trying to talk for almost 3.5 years and not getting anywhere, we use the only power we have left.
NONE of us want to strike. But most of us are willing because we are tired of going no where.

I understand. I accept the union's role in our current situation. What really bothers me is the rhetoric though. It just fires me when people try to manipulate me into being a big ole union supporter.

I don't know what the answer is. With the market the way it is, I think it is going to be difficult for any pilot group to make headway. I still don't understand why pilot salaries are the company's answer for saving costs. It seems to me, if fuel prices go up, then fares should go up at an equal rate. This is an old dead horse though, so I'm not going to beat it.

The bottom line is, I'm disgusted with the union and with the company, and I want to throw up any time I read any document from either side.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

You continue to be a perfect example of what is wrong with this industry. You talk about pilots needing to think for themselves and not rely on a union to do their thinking for them. So you think management is going to give a rats ass about what Mr. ASA Aviator thinks about work rules, pay rates, scheduling, wrongful termination, loss of license, ect??? (I could go on but you get the point). No, if you voiced a concern or a complaint, you would simply be fired and one of these eager applicants just chomping at the bit to fly a jet would step right up to replace you. That’s why it’s called collective bargaining. A single pilot means absolutely NOTHING to management and they don’t care if you’re freaking Chuck Yeager. Only when the pilot group as a whole (yep, say it with me, the pilot UNION) steps up and tells the company that they either have to play nice or else does your individual concern get addressed. Unfortunately, ALPA is made up of people, and people make mistakes so ALPA isn’t going to be perfect but it’s what we’ve got.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed but as much as you might like to think you are, you are NOT white collar, sorry to have to break you the bad news. You are a highly trained but also easily replaced hourly worker. Here’s another little piece of info for you… The current administration and economy doesn’t give a squirt of piss about the worker. It’s all about the bottom line and if the companies make money, then everyone’s happy, if you happen to be a shareholder. If you happen to be an employee, then an increase in pay hurts the bottom line and is, therefore, a bad thing. That’s the down and dirty economics of this industry. Before anyone starts in on me being a socialist or a left wing liberal wacko, no, I’m actually an independent who happens to think that when the working middle class makes more money, they spend more money, the businesses sell more, the bottom line improves and then everyone wins.

I’ll tell you what, why don’t you as an individual walk over to the GO and tell them what you think needs to be improved with this company. After all, you did say that you can think and speak for yourself. Just don’t forget to update your resume’ before you do, because you’ll be job hunting shortly thereafter.

I agree with you about the administration and economy. It seems to me though, if we all did what was in our best interest, it would serve the same function as a union. They can't fire us all, and if they fire me, great, I'll go back to my previous career, and buy a couple of planes.

I'm not anti-pilot group, I'm just anti-union.

 

[CTS]

YES IF they want paycuts (including underblock pay). I refuse to make management rich by taking paycuts. I am a stakekholder in this company to, and my decsions on a daily basis could make this company money or lose $$$, therefore I deserve good compensation. If they want to reduce cost I suggest, fuel hedging, better leases on equipment, bid out the cost of parts, settle our contract (less legal fees), offer snack companies our inflight service to promote their product (we get the product for free), and I have other ideas to but BL will have to settle my contract before Igive away all the good secrets!!!!

 

[ArtVandalay]

If one thing holds true about this board, people can't keep their mouths shut. The beginning of this thread was the simple yes or no answers asked for so, I jumped right to the last page and guess what? A bunch of senseless useless blah blah blah... very funny.......

 

[SPDBRD747400]

If one thing holds true about this board, people can't keep their mouths shut. The beginning of this thread was the simple yes or no answers asked for so, I jumped right to the last page and guess what? A bunch of senseless useless blah blah blah... very funny.......

Then that would explain why you just said "yes" or "no." HELLO

 

["GO AROUND"]

Sure, I knew a union was here, and I am a member, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them. In fact, every chance I get I will oppose them on issues I disagree with.

Regarding the reason we pay, that "you reap the benefits, so you must pay" bull crap is rediculous. That assumes that the union actually helps us, which is not necessarily true. Maybe they foster an anti-company attitude among the pilots, which leads the company to foster an anti-crew attitude. The animosity currently between the groups is why we don't have a contract settled, and I fault both the union and the company for that.

I think we would be better off without the union. Unions had their place 100 years ago. Pilots should be more professional, and less blue collar.

Then don't agree with them. First, your dues are not just for the benifits of the contract you currently work under, but all the other benifits(legal, medical, insurance, etc..) that ALPA affords you if you need them.

Secondly, you do benifit everyday from the current contract that past, present and future union members will negotiate, defend and watchover for you and all the pilots at ASA.

When I started 5 1/2 years ago, the union and the company had a great relationship of trust and cooperation. But that relationship changed when the company started abusing our contract and it continued to deteriorate into the present situation.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Then don't agree with them. First, your dues are not just for the benifits of the contract you currently work under, but all the other benifits(legal, medical, insurance, etc..) that ALPA affords you if you need them.

Secondly, you do benifit everyday from the current contract that past, present and future union members will negotiate, defend and watchover for you and all the pilots at ASA.

When I started 5 1/2 years ago, the union and the company had a great relationship of trust and cooperation. But that relationship changed when the company started abusing our contract and it continued to deteriorate into the present situation.

I will have to defer to your experience about the good relationship between management and the union. It is my hope that with the new purchase of ASA, that the management culture will change too. It may be too much to ask, but I'm willing to keep an open mind for the next 6-9 months...

 

[Tomct]

Then prepare for the worst! The skywst pilots are pissed about their 18 month 50-90 seat agreement! I think that they are over 2 years now, but hey, because they all love one another JA will change their pay right away! You truely are an idiot ASAAviator! I believe that they have had the same mgmnt all along. You had better wake up and smell what you are full of....Sh@t! Go hold BL's hand and sing cum-bye-yah!

Moderator reviewed-

Hey, this kind of subject is going to generate some heat from both sides. As long as it's kept civil and within the boundries of the rules, either side is going to be offended by the other side's posts. Everybody please keep this in mind and post accordingly.

Thanks

 

["GO AROUND"]

I will have to defer to your experience about the good relationship between management and the union. It is my hope that with the new purchase of ASA, that the management culture will change too. It may be too much to ask, but I'm willing to keep an open mind for the next 6-9 months...

Things are changing for the better, but the trick with relationships between mngmnt and labor is nobody wants to feel they are getting the SH*t end of the stick in anyhting. That and we have had and still have managment that will fight to the end rather than admit that they did anything wrong.

I am still optimistic for those changes too. But like everything else at ASA, I'll believe it when I see it. I'm tired of people blaming all their problems and the state of the industry on our union. I bitch about a lot of things, but I will never bitch about people that give their time and effort to try and make ASA a better place to work. If you don't like the way things are being done then stand up and run for a position and I will support you if it makes life better at ASA.

 

[Tomct]

The really funny thing is that everyone that is b@tching about ALPA has NEVER volunteered or ran for any position. Hence, THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING to change what they don't like?
If you are that upset, like go around said....RUN for the OFFICE! Until then, SHUT IT and be happy that someone is willing to volunteer their time to make this a better place!