United posts $779 million loss

Scope out RJ's

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I really feel sorry for the employees there. That truly is a ship with no rudder!

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081021/earns_ual.html?.v=6


AP
Fuel costs, hedges drive UAL Corp. 3Q loss
Tuesday October 21, 9:57 am ET
By Joshua Freed, AP Business Writer United Airlines parent UAL blames steep 3Q loss on fuel hedges, revenue edges higher
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- United Airlines parent UAL Corp. on Tuesday reported a $779 million third-quarter loss, squeezed by high jet fuel prices through much of the quarter and falling oil prices which hurt its hedging positions.
The Chicago-based carrier said its loss totaled $6.13 per share, compared with profit of $334 million, or $2.21 per share, a year ago.
UAL Corp. said it would have lost $252 million, or $1.99 per share, if not for accounting charges and $519 million in non-cash fuel hedge charges resulting from the drop-off in oil prices it had to record at the end of the quarter.
Revenue edged up 0.7 percent to $5.57 billion, helped by a nearly 11 percent rise in cargo revenue and a 1.3 percent rise in United Airlines passenger revenue.
The results beat estimates of analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters, who had expected a larger adjusted loss of $2.48 per share on revenue of $5.54 billion. Shares jumped $1.22, or nearly 10 percent, to $13.89 in morning trading.
The July-through-September period saw crude oil prices peak at $147.27 on July 11, but then decline steeply to the $80-range by the end of the quarter. Jet fuel prices fell, too, but not as fast as oil.
UAL said that meant that its fuel expenses surged $946 million year-over-year, while it was still stuck with the accounting loss on the hedges. It recorded a cash gain of $17 million on fuel hedges that settled during the quarter; the noncash losses are for contracts that haven't settled yet.
Glenn Tilton, United's chairman, chief executive and president, said United is aiming to return to profitability, although the company didn't predict when.
"While today's weak economic environment challenges our industry as demand softens, that same economic environment has caused oil prices to significantly decline from the unprecedented highs we witnessed earlier this year, suggesting significantly lower industry costs and improving operating margin," Tilton said in a prepared statement.
United said it now expects overall capacity to shrink 8 percent to 9 percent during 2009. That includes a projection of shrinking domestic capacity by 12.5 percent to 13.5 percent and international capacity 7 percent to 8 percent. For the first nine months of 2008, United said it has lost $4.05 billion, or $32.34 per share, versus a profit of $456 million, or $3.10 per share, during the first three quarters of 2007. Revenue rose 3.5 percent to $15.65 billion.
 

Joblu

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I really feel sorry for the employees there. That truly is a ship with no rudder!

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081021/earns_ual.html?.v=6


AP
Fuel costs, hedges drive UAL Corp. 3Q loss
Tuesday October 21, 9:57 am ET
By Joshua Freed, AP Business Writer United Airlines parent UAL blames steep 3Q loss on fuel hedges, revenue edges higher
MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- United Airlines parent UAL Corp. on Tuesday reported a $779 million third-quarter loss, squeezed by high jet fuel prices through much of the quarter and falling oil prices which hurt its hedging positions.
The Chicago-based carrier said its loss totaled $6.13 per share, compared with profit of $334 million, or $2.21 per share, a year ago.
UAL Corp. said it would have lost $252 million, or $1.99 per share, if not for accounting charges and $519 million in non-cash fuel hedge charges resulting from the drop-off in oil prices it had to record at the end of the quarter.
Revenue edged up 0.7 percent to $5.57 billion, helped by a nearly 11 percent rise in cargo revenue and a 1.3 percent rise in United Airlines passenger revenue.
The results beat estimates of analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters, who had expected a larger adjusted loss of $2.48 per share on revenue of $5.54 billion. Shares jumped $1.22, or nearly 10 percent, to $13.89 in morning trading.
The July-through-September period saw crude oil prices peak at $147.27 on July 11, but then decline steeply to the $80-range by the end of the quarter. Jet fuel prices fell, too, but not as fast as oil.
UAL said that meant that its fuel expenses surged $946 million year-over-year, while it was still stuck with the accounting loss on the hedges. It recorded a cash gain of $17 million on fuel hedges that settled during the quarter; the noncash losses are for contracts that haven't settled yet.
Glenn Tilton, United's chairman, chief executive and president, said United is aiming to return to profitability, although the company didn't predict when.
"While today's weak economic environment challenges our industry as demand softens, that same economic environment has caused oil prices to significantly decline from the unprecedented highs we witnessed earlier this year, suggesting significantly lower industry costs and improving operating margin," Tilton said in a prepared statement.
United said it now expects overall capacity to shrink 8 percent to 9 percent during 2009. That includes a projection of shrinking domestic capacity by 12.5 percent to 13.5 percent and international capacity 7 percent to 8 percent. For the first nine months of 2008, United said it has lost $4.05 billion, or $32.34 per share, versus a profit of $456 million, or $3.10 per share, during the first three quarters of 2007. Revenue rose 3.5 percent to $15.65 billion.
Holy F%ckin sh!T!!! More like a ship with no hull!
 

GuppyWN

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I'm no economist but you'd think one of these days I'd short airline stocks before earnings. Where else can you lose $252 mil and you're stock goes up 10%?

$500mil loss on hedges? And you guys are hedged 93% at $127 a barrell in Q4.

Gup
 

JumpJetter

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Come on Gup, to be fair, some of that is accounting loss to the former "value" of hedges. Same thing happened to SWA. But you are right on the 127bbl hedging, with oil in the 70s that's gonna hurt. Also look at the operating loss, 252 million.
 

Bally

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Don't be so impatient. Afterall, Glenn Tilton is quoted as saying that "...we are aiming for profitability...".
 

ReverseSensing

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Unless people understand GAAP accounting of unrealized losses, it's best to focus on the operating losses only. Still, $252 million operating loss is big.
 

habubuaza

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Another Airline Stabilization Bill? Or is it finally time to give the foreign countries what they wanted, full and complete access to the U.S. market? Well, if more airlines go to the brink of collapse, Washington will do whatever it seems fit. And no one will stop them.
 

CapnVegetto

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I wonder how much of a bonus Tilton gave himself this quarter?
 

Benhuntn

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4.05 billion = 62,500 dollars per hr for the first 9 mo. They should have had the captain stand at the door and say "please don't board then we will cnx the flt and save 62,500 dollars per hr.
 

RedDogC130

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Another Airline Stabilization Bill? Or is it finally time to give the foreign countries what they wanted, full and complete access to the U.S. market? Well, if more airlines go to the brink of collapse, Washington will do whatever it seems fit. And no one will stop them.
Like everyone said before...If someone like United fails..everyone else will pick up the people. Every airline would be full and back to making money...I don't wish ill fate on anyone but I want my company to make money and secure ME a future in this business. Read into however you want.
 

PHXFLYR

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Another Airline Stabilization Bill? Or is it finally time to give the foreign countries what they wanted, full and complete access to the U.S. market? Well, if more airlines go to the brink of collapse, Washington will do whatever it seems fit. And no one will stop them.


Exactly. While alot of the industry losses are fuel driven coupled with a slumping economy, I can't help but come away with the feeling that there is also alot of management posturing going on behind the scenes for changing the cabotage laws when they come up for review in 2010. What better way to do it then writing off everything you can to show huge losses to justify your case ?


PHXFLYR:cool:
 

Poahi

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Like everyone said before...If ... United fails..everyone else will pick up the people. Every airline would be full and back to making money.... I want my company to make money and secure ME a future in this business. Read into however you want.
Sounds like you want UAL to fail so you can have a better lifestyle. That's what I read in to it.

And no, it doesn't work that way. Not all other airlines will "pick up the people". And SWA won't find its way to NRT anytime soon and not every airline will make money. With strong leadership, UAL can turn around.
 

redflyer65

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Strong leadership?

Tilton's goal for a very long time has been to shrink his airline until someone wants to merge, or buy them. He really doesn't care which.

Very sad....
 

contrail67

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Strong leadership?

Tilton's goal for a very long time has been to shrink his airline until someone wants to merge, or buy them. He really doesn't care which.

Very sad....
The point he was making was that a change in leadership...ie: a merger, will bring a new group that will do a better job....the shrinking of the airline is because in the end, they know King Kong can only be so big to get Govt. approval....and they are right. Right now we are all watching Nwa and Delta...very risky bringing a new merger in that will be larger than that one.
 

Shrek

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United Pilots: Fuel Hedge Losses Further Proof
of Misdirection of Airline

Chicago, Ill., October 21, 2008-- United Airlines’ announced $779 million loss for the third quarter, $519 million attributable to poor fuel hedges, is yet another example of incompetence and lack of fiscal responsibility by its CEO and his executives, according to the pilots of United Airlines.

United CEO Glenn Tilton, who, ironically, came to United from ChevronTexaco, one of the nation’s largest oil companies, ought to perform better.

“How is it that an oil man such as Glenn Tilton can’t figure out how to stem losses from hedging jet fuel?” asked Captain Steve Wallach, chairman of the United Chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association. “United’s shortcomings under Mr. Tilton’s direction are well chronicled, but this latest reported loss is a real head-scratcher. It took him too long to realize the value of hedging, and then he entered the market too late.

“It is the hope of the pilots I represent that this oil man’s inability to properly hedge fuel at an airline doesn’t translate into additional charges being passed along to our passengers as a way to compensate for his failings.”

United recently announced it was doubling the fee it charges passengers for checking a second bag. The pilots say this increase essentially raises taxes on passengers at a time when a stimulus is needed. In the meantime, incoming CFO Kathryn Mikells will be paid $525,000 per year plus bonuses and stock options. United’s executive compensation far exceeds their performance, and it starts at the top with CEO Tilton.

“It’s time this airline’s Board of Directors takes a real hard, close look as to why United Airlines continues to bleed money and overpay incompetent executives,” added Captain Wallach. “We are at the point where the tired, old excuses from Mr. Tilton and his executives no longer resonate with the pilots, employees and passengers of this airline. It’s time for real leadership; leadership from someone with the vision, experience and know-how necessary to run a world class airline.”

The United pilots have set up a petition on its website www.GlennTilton.com for United passengers to demand the removal of the added fees to the second bag, to restore the service passengers once expected from United Airlines, and to contact United’s Board of Directors.
 

Flopgut

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Read into however you want.
Here's what I read into it: Midway should be closed to transport category and SWA ought to be banned from O'Hare AND any new Chicago airport for 25 years. That ought to make up for the WA..in Chicago!...then let's do the same in Dallas and Houston. Then let's see a chart and check in with the airline analysts on both SWA and UAL. How would that look?

How do you think your airline got so good? Great mgt alone didn't do it.
 

UAL-GSO

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Like everyone said before...If someone like United fails..everyone else will pick up the people. Every airline would be full and back to making money...I don't wish ill fate on anyone but I want my company to make money and secure ME a future in this business. Read into however you want.
Sad and ignorant.
 
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