United Minimums

[jmreii]

Just because a pilot is qualified for job, does not equal you are liked. Mannerisms and personality carry far more weight. I like to look at body language to see if someone is trying to BS me.

 

[Freight Dog]

Whats OBAP?

Obap is Obama's second cousin on his father's side.

 

[Desert1]

I think what we are seeing with D-Bo is an unfortunate by-product of affirmative action. Here is a totaly qualified black pilot who worked his way up and shouldn't have to answer to anyone, but the reality is is that because affirmative action has allowed some (not all) very low time, inexperienced pilots into the ranks of the majors, this "label" now sticks to all minorities, to which they spend a lifetime defending. That doesn't sound fun to me.

Yes there was a time and place for affirmative action. The cycle of excluding minorities had to be broken somehow, but I think now is the time it should be ended.

If I was a black or female pilot with the type of quals. as D-Bo, I would be pissed that others were getting hired because of their race or sex and not their experience. It tarnishes all the rest of the minorities reputations, and that shadow of doubt seems to never leave.

Get rid of affirmative action and no one can ever say you got hired for any other reason except that you were qualified for the job.

Race or sex shouldn't even be on the app.

Excellent post. I believe your educated thoughts are shared by most. I have many life-long friends who, minority and females alike, are exceptionally gifted, talented and hard-working. I can honestly say some of the best pilots I've flown with fall under this 'category' (sounds awkward doesn't it?) They generally resent the unfair labels placed on them and the insult that affirmative action represents. They have to live with the mindset every day. There was a day when, due to segregation and racism, it certainly had its place. But we cannot carry these programs and ideologies forever. It's time we move on and level the playing field for all. Even the Supreme Court has ruled Affirmative Action Programs as reverse discrimination. Martin Luther King dreamt of a day when all people would be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. Let it be so.

I'm not a huge fan of big gov't and it's intrusion in societal affairs as it tends to only make matters worse. It creates a whole new generation of resentment and the associated prejudices/racism that comes with it.

Lowering the bar for these talented people not only represents an insult, even worse, it serves to crush the human drive that made this the great country that it is. It tells our minorities to not work hard...that they'll get the job anyway. It's a tough global market out there; we must use all the talent we can muster as a society.

D1

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Airtran Minimums...just look at your own workforce dude...not real good

 

[RollinOnMy22sYo]

That's why the 1000PIC TURBINE min at other airlines makes so much sense.

Pretty hard to point a finger at a person with PIC turbine and say "You didn't earn the right to be here."

 

[Boeing747Driver]

That's why the 1000PIC TURBINE min at other airlines makes so much sense.

Pretty hard to point a finger at a person with PIC turbine and say "You didn't earn the right to be here."

It is also pretty hard to point the finger at the 11,000 hour pilot with 6000 hours jet thats happen to have less than 1000 hours PIC turbine and say your not qualified, but some airlines do. Hiring minimums are some of the most retarded things I have seen over the years. They should strive to hire good people period. Time means very little. There are some very crappy pilots out there with 20,000 hours and some very good pilots with 500 hours.

 

[jmreii]

It will be really interesting to see where the U.S. airline industry will be in the next few years, considering the fact that the U.S. is making fewer goods that nobody around the world wants, and we suck up every item that is made overseas. Hold on, cabotage here we come.

 

[Boeing747Driver]

It will be really interesting to see where the U.S. airline industry will be in the next few years, considering the fact that the U.S. is making fewer goods that nobody around the world wants, and we suck up every item that is made overseas. Hold on, cabotage here we come.

Bush can outsource us to mexico and china.

 

[Huck]

Already being discussed, right here on the Purple Planet.

 

[poydras]

make sure you have a college degreee.
That really makes the difference in your capability of been a pilot...................
And if you graduate overseas, forget it!! your degree is worthless. We here are smarter than you!!!!!!!!

ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah

 

[T-Bags]

SSDD...

Just a few points from the p-nut gallery.

We can get you experience, but a jack@ss with 1000 hours will still be a jack@ss when he get's 10,000. If anything, the mins should be lower. The only valid reason for mins is to give you enough time to step on your shwanzes... The we can screen out the idiots with multiple violations. In reality, high mins results in LOWER quality people. If you're sitting at 15,000 hours and you haven't been able to get a good job, YOU'RE AN IDIOT AND LOSER! Flying is like sex. While practice may make you better, some people are naturals and some will suck no matter how much experience they get.

When I had 300 TT, I was teaching one student with another student solo on my wing in a Supersonic twin engined jet. I think I could handle ORD-DSM in an F-n Guppy.

Now to the minority thing.
- When the folks hired in the 70's (mayonaisse monkeys with balls...) apologize to minority and women pilots, and step aside for the "more qualified" ones they were hired in front of, then you can attack those women and minorities hired today
- IIRC, UAL has a LOWER hire rate for women and minorities than white males. Yes, they may get an interview earlier, but it's still TOUGHER for them to get past the interview.
- The WORST pilots I flew with at UAL were WHITE MALE SCABS. Among the best was this knockout MILF on the Guppy in DEN....:0 Made it hard to concentrate....
- Off the top of my head, I know 7 female or minority pilots at UAL personally. One was an AF fighter pilot, Three were AF "FAIPS", one was a C 141 instructor pilot in the AF, one was a KC-135 and T-38 IP, and one was a civilian only pilot. Hardly differant from the males they hire. Heck, if anything they are BETTER qualified. Only one was hired with REALLY low hours. She was an outstanding AF officer and pilot who was picked to be a FAIP, but got out during the Bush 1 drawdown. Back to the first point, we can build your hours, but being a jack@ss is forever...
- I had casual conversation with two other new-hires in the late 90's who were minority or female. BOTH CAME FROM ANOTHER MAJOR AIRLINE.

Let's be honest. At worst, UAL's hiring practices cost a few white guys a couple weeks of seniority. Boo Fricken hoo. It's like having to park at the back of the parking lot and noticing a car double parked on the front row during your long walk to the building and getting mad because you could have had that spot. But the truth is YOU STILL WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN IT. SOMEONE ELSE WOULD HAVE. You would still be on the back row, one spot closer. Do I support Affirmative action? NO. Do I blame the person taking advantage of it? Are you kidding? Use whatever assets you have to get hired (I used my stricking good looks...)

Finally, if UAL has a special program for family members of employees, GOOD ON THEM!! With the trouble and heartache my family went through at the hands of UAL, THEY DESERVE IT. Now go get a life and quit blamming everyone else for your shortcommings.

 

[T-Bags]

make sure you have a college degreee.
That really makes the difference in your capability of been a pilot...................
And if you graduate overseas, forget it!! your degree is worthless. We here are smarter than you!!!!!!!!

ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah

Why do we make anyone go to college? We could train "Doctors" to work on just one little specialty during a weekend course right after HS graduation...

Hear's an idea. Airlines look for college grads for two reasons.
1. You have proved that you can stick to a tough program and complete it. You've proven you aren't a quitter. You've proven you have the APTITUDE to complete a technical course. It's an indicator that you'll therefore have the aptitude to complete theirs. I want my family on an airplane flown by a person who will STAY IN THE BOOKS, AND WANTS TO LEARN AS MUCH AS HE CAN. It also proves you want the job. If I say you need to have a degree to get a job at my company, and you aren't willing to get one, then you obviously don't want to work for me.
2. More importantly, they require it because they CAN. If you don't like it, find another career.

 

[svcta]

can anyone answer my question about the sons and daughters thing?

 

[Stan]

- The WORST pilots I flew with at UAL were WHITE MALE SCABS. Among the best was this knockout MILF on the Guppy in DEN....:0 Made it hard to concentrate....

I agree. By FAR!!! The worst captains I flew with were the SCABS, 99% white male. I always tried to figure out if they always sucked or if working for a company for 20 years where everyone hates you made them this way.

On the other hand 2 of the best Captains I flew with were 500 hour hire female interns. By the time I flew with them on the guppy they had thousands of hours. They were not only great pilots they were great Captains and great employees.

 

[PCL_128]

Airtran Minimums...just look at your own workforce dude...not real good

Care to elaborate?

 

[pipe]

SSDD...

Just a few points from the p-nut gallery.

We can get you experience, but a jack@ss with 1000 hours will still be a jack@ss when he get's 10,000. If anything, the mins should be lower. The only valid reason for mins is to give you enough time to step on your shwanzes... The we can screen out the idiots with multiple violations. In reality, high mins results in LOWER quality people. If you're sitting at 15,000 hours and you haven't been able to get a good job, YOU'RE AN IDIOT AND LOSER! Flying is like sex. While practice may make you better, some people are naturals and some will suck no matter how much experience they get.

When I had 300 TT, I was teaching one student with another student solo on my wing in a Supersonic twin engined jet. I think I could handle ORD-DSM in an F-n Guppy.

Now to the minority thing.
- When the folks hired in the 70's (mayonaisse monkeys with balls...) apologize to minority and women pilots, and step aside for the "more qualified" ones they were hired in front of, then you can attack those women and minorities hired today
- IIRC, UAL has a LOWER hire rate for women and minorities than white males. Yes, they may get an interview earlier, but it's still TOUGHER for them to get past the interview.
- The WORST pilots I flew with at UAL were WHITE MALE SCABS. Among the best was this knockout MILF on the Guppy in DEN....:0 Made it hard to concentrate....
- Off the top of my head, I know 7 female or minority pilots at UAL personally. One was an AF fighter pilot, Three were AF "FAIPS", one was a C 141 instructor pilot in the AF, one was a KC-135 and T-38 IP, and one was a civilian only pilot. Hardly differant from the males they hire. Heck, if anything they are BETTER qualified. Only one was hired with REALLY low hours. She was an outstanding AF officer and pilot who was picked to be a FAIP, but got out during the Bush 1 drawdown. Back to the first point, we can build your hours, but being a jack@ss is forever...
- I had casual conversation with two other new-hires in the late 90's who were minority or female. BOTH CAME FROM ANOTHER MAJOR AIRLINE.

Let's be honest. At worst, UAL's hiring practices cost a few white guys a couple weeks of seniority. Boo Fricken hoo. It's like having to park at the back of the parking lot and noticing a car double parked on the front row during your long walk to the building and getting mad because you could have had that spot. But the truth is YOU STILL WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN IT. SOMEONE ELSE WOULD HAVE. You would still be on the back row, one spot closer. Do I support Affirmative action? NO. Do I blame the person taking advantage of it? Are you kidding? Use whatever assets you have to get hired (I used my stricking good looks...)

Finally, if UAL has a special program for family members of employees, GOOD ON THEM!! With the trouble and heartache my family went through at the hands of UAL, THEY DESERVE IT. Now go get a life and quit blamming everyone else for your shortcommings.

When I had 2000 hrs, I was a UPT student and could barely see lead through the chip on the shoulder of the 300hr IP with me.

I digress though, as this has nothing to do with UAL, but UPT bases / airplanes / squadrons / traffic patterns / RSUs / emergency procedures / syllabi / checkrides / etc, etc, are designed so that a monkey and an M&M dispenser could make it happen. Thinking is not only discouraged, it is severely punished.

PIPE

 

[T-Bags]

When I had 2000 hrs, I was a UPT student and could barely see lead through the chip on the shoulder of the 300hr IP with me.

I digress though, as this has nothing to do with UAL, but UPT bases / airplanes / squadrons / traffic patterns / RSUs / emergency procedures / syllabi / checkrides / etc, etc, are designed so that a monkey and an M&M dispenser could make it happen. Thinking is not only discouraged, it is severely punished.

PIPE

Or IOW, you did poorly despite all your prior time and now it was someone elses fault.:crying: I find airlines are big on "independant thinkers".. . So managing your energy and your profiles (as well as that of your wingman) doesn't involve thinking? Does flying to ORD and doing exactly what the controller tells you to down to your speed?

Hey, but thanks for proving the "low hour jack@sses become high hour jack@sses" thing for me.

In over 6k hours of flight time on jets from 10,000 lbs to over 500,000 lbs, the 1500 hours in the white rocket were the most challenging, the most rewarding, and BY FAR the place I learned the most about flying. But then again I wasn't some 2000 puddle jumper hour punk who came to UPT thinking I really had a clue WTF I was doing (you didn't). BTW, I suggest you look out the FRONT of the jet, then you won't see that chip on the guy sitting behind you.

 

[poydras]

T-Bags I was been sarchastic.

I have a Master from the University of Brussel in physics but it is apparently useless because is not accredited.

By the way my high school academics are worth as much as a 4 year degree in the States.
No kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I DO HAVE A GREAT JOB HERE ANYWAY so I am not complaining.
JUST MAKING A POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pipe]

Or IOW, you did poorly despite all your prior time and now it was someone elses fault.:crying: I find airlines are big on "independant thinkers".. . So managing your energy and your profiles (as well as that of your wingman) doesn't involve thinking? Does flying to ORD and doing exactly what the controller tells you to down to your speed?

Hey, but thanks for proving the "low hour jack@sses become high hour jack@sses" thing for me.

In over 6k hours of flight time on jets from 10,000 lbs to over 500,000 lbs, the 1500 hours in the white rocket were the most challenging, the most rewarding, and BY FAR the place I learned the most about flying. But then again I wasn't some 2000 puddle jumper hour punk who came to UPT thinking I really had a clue WTF I was doing (you didn't). BTW, I suggest you look out the FRONT of the jet, then you won't see that chip on the guy sitting behind you.

That's right Bags, I did poorly. You are welcome to come over and dust off the trophy (if you can find it in the basement).

PIPE

 

[T-Bags]

T-Bags I was been sarchastic.

I have a Master from the University of Brussel in physics but it is apparently useless because is not accredited.

By the way my high school academics are worth as much as a 4 year degree in the States.
No kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I DO HAVE A GREAT JOB HERE ANYWAY so I am not complaining.
JUST MAKING A POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then why the heck are you flying airplanes!! Do the smart thing, make a bunch of money and buy a Pitts if you like to fly!

As to the four year degrees in the US. That's likely true at many institutions, but not all. I know comparing a bach program with a masters is not always relevant but, about one third of my fellow students when I got my Masters were from Europe, and paid BIG money to come here to get it.

 

[T-Bags]

That's right Bags, I did poorly. You are welcome to come over and dust off the trophy (if you can find it in the basement).

PIPE

First, if you had 2000 hours and DIDN'T finish at the top of a UPT class, then you're a complete idiot, and second, I'm confident you spend most of your free time "polishing your (tiny) trophy"

 

[pipe]

First, if you had 2000 hours and DIDN'T finish at the top of a UPT class, then you're a complete idiot, and second, I'm confident you spend most of your free time "polishing your (tiny) trophy"

Actually, I spent most of my free time at UPT with a golf club in my hand. RELAX!

PIPE

 

[T-Bags]

Actually, I spent most of my free time at UPT with a golf club in my hand. RELAX!

PIPE

Just curious Pipe, what UPT base did you go to?

 

[pipe]

Just curious Pipe, what UPT base did you go to?

Columbus.

PIPE

 

[T-Bags]

Columbus.

PIPE

Well in that case, you're right, those Columbus guys were knobs... :laugh:

 

[jmreii]

SSDD...

Just a few points from the p-nut gallery.

We can get you experience, but a jack@ss with 1000 hours will still be a jack@ss when he get's 10,000. If anything, the mins should be lower. The only valid reason for mins is to give you enough time to step on your shwanzes... The we can screen out the idiots with multiple violations. In reality, high mins results in LOWER quality people. If you're sitting at 15,000 hours and you haven't been able to get a good job, YOU'RE AN IDIOT AND LOSER! Flying is like sex. While practice may make you better, some people are naturals and some will suck no matter how much experience they get.

When I had 300 TT, I was teaching one student with another student solo on my wing in a Supersonic twin engined jet. I think I could handle ORD-DSM in an F-n Guppy.

Now to the minority thing.
- When the folks hired in the 70's (mayonaisse monkeys with balls...) apologize to minority and women pilots, and step aside for the "more qualified" ones they were hired in front of, then you can attack those women and minorities hired today
- IIRC, UAL has a LOWER hire rate for women and minorities than white males. Yes, they may get an interview earlier, but it's still TOUGHER for them to get past the interview.
- The WORST pilots I flew with at UAL were WHITE MALE SCABS. Among the best was this knockout MILF on the Guppy in DEN....:0 Made it hard to concentrate....
- Off the top of my head, I know 7 female or minority pilots at UAL personally. One was an AF fighter pilot, Three were AF "FAIPS", one was a C 141 instructor pilot in the AF, one was a KC-135 and T-38 IP, and one was a civilian only pilot. Hardly differant from the males they hire. Heck, if anything they are BETTER qualified. Only one was hired with REALLY low hours. She was an outstanding AF officer and pilot who was picked to be a FAIP, but got out during the Bush 1 drawdown. Back to the first point, we can build your hours, but being a jack@ss is forever...
- I had casual conversation with two other new-hires in the late 90's who were minority or female. BOTH CAME FROM ANOTHER MAJOR AIRLINE.

Let's be honest. At worst, UAL's hiring practices cost a few white guys a couple weeks of seniority. Boo Fricken hoo. It's like having to park at the back of the parking lot and noticing a car double parked on the front row during your long walk to the building and getting mad because you could have had that spot. But the truth is YOU STILL WOULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN IT. SOMEONE ELSE WOULD HAVE. You would still be on the back row, one spot closer. Do I support Affirmative action? NO. Do I blame the person taking advantage of it? Are you kidding? Use whatever assets you have to get hired (I used my stricking good looks...)

Finally, if UAL has a special program for family members of employees, GOOD ON THEM!! With the trouble and heartache my family went through at the hands of UAL, THEY DESERVE IT. Now go get a life and quit blamming everyone else for your shortcommings.

Amen, Bro.