United goes out of their way

[AWACoff]

I had an unbelievable jumpseat experience today. Bad weather yesterday and 2 CXs today caused everything to be overbooked. The gate agents were running around like chickens with their heads cut off. I finally get to the cockpit and introduce myself. Very nice crew (Dulles to Chicago flight EDIT depature). I go to the jetway to grab my bags and the agent says a POSITIVE SPACE aca pilot is taking the jumpseat. Obviously that's not how it works in the jumpseat. The captain ends up delaying the flight 10 minutes to straighten everything out as the agents wanted him to leave the gate with an open seat (which I could obviously take). All said and done, Capt. Jim and F.O. Christy went WAY beyond the call of duty to help me get home. My hat is off to this crew. If all United employees care as much as these pilots (and the FAs...they were a fantastic bunch), United will not fail.
We even got into ORD early! Nice JOB!

 

[Russ]

For them and thousands of other good folks in all departments at UA I hope they survive. We only hear the negative comments, nice to hear some positive ones now and then.

 

[T-Gates]

UAL Employees

I have to agree. Since they filed CH 11, UAL employees have really been top notch. Very helpful. I would like to see nothing better than thier airline survive. Whereas AA employees are as bitchy as ever......I wonder how a lil' CH 11 would change thier attitude.

--03M

 

[Chas]

not my experience

1)I have been flying UAL for 12 years unfortunately today I was shocked at some shoddy customer service . they had 3 agents working at check in with a line of over 300 people it took people 2 hours to get to an agent and check in . I know for a fact many missed there flights for that reason.Meanwhile the Air Canada side of things ( covered by UAL) had 4 agents with 25 people checking in .

2) due to someones messup had to see the same movie twice as they forgot to board the west to east coast movie


3) had some bimbo in first class with a dog that was not only barking throughout the whole flight but the F/A condoned her taking the dog out during the flight .

4) On landing the FO landed real long ( 1/2 way down the runway) and startled me a bit weather was just above minimums so who am I to speak on that but it was definitly a little hairy to me .
I have been flying UAL and hope the airline does well but today was not there best showing . Chas

 

[chperplt]

4) On landing the FO landed real long ( 1/2 way down the runway) and startled me a bit weather was just above minimums so who am I to speak on that but it was definitly a little hairy to me .

And you know this how???? Did you have the airport diagram out and watch the runway markings go by?

It always amazes me how low time, or any time pilots sitting in the back have a clue what's really going on.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

landed half way down the runway huh??

how do you know?

weather "just above" minimums?

how do you know?

HEY, DONT YOU DO THE AVIATION REPORTING FOR CNN?????


Leave the flying to the professionals.

 

[WrightAvia]

maybe...

the plane went halfway down the runway with the FO flying at mins, because that C0-PILOT can't FLAT BENCH as much as the Captain. I have heard of that happening before...especially on windy days at MSP.

Our Captains can FLAT BENCH lots of weight. We make the the touchdown zone every time. Even when it's windy AND at MINS. I think the only time that isn't true though, is when we are using Hymen Captains.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Chas,

Do you think that your own flying skills can stand up to the scrutiny that you are so willing to dish out?

For the most part everyone does their upmost to do the best job that they can do. Seems to be a characteristic of the community.

Sometimes things just don't work out as well as you anticipate or try to accomplish.

Oh, have you ever landed long on a near minimums approach?

If you are pursuing this as a career you will hope that people are tolerant , patient and forgiving of your indiscretions or departures from your usually perfect performance.

Take Care, Good Luck & Fly Safe!

 

[earlthesquirrel]

Did you ever think that Chas is talking as a passenger and not a pilot? It seems to me that having 3 agents for 200 people is pretty poor. Having to watch the same movie twice is just as poor.

United is in the customer service industry, when that customer service fails then so goes the airline. I am sure that when you all scare a customer you get their pilot credentials then tell them to shut up they don't know what they are talking about.

Settle down.

 

[T-Gates]

Did you ever think that Chas is talking as a passenger and not a pilot? It seems to me that having 3 agents for 200 people is pretty poor. Having to watch the same movie twice is just as poor.

United is in the customer service industry, when that customer service fails then so goes the airline. I am sure that when you all scare a customer you get their pilot credentials then tell them to shut up they don't know what they are talking about.

Settle down.

I think they are questioning his assesment of the F/O's flying skills, not the act that the CS may have sucked.

--03M

 

[LearLove]

"Capt. Jim and F.O. Christy went WAY beyond the call of duty to help me get home"

Remember while you got home that space positive ACA guy was then put back into the cabin which resulted (if the flight was booked full like you said) in a PAYING PAX not getting home.

 

[stillaboo]

The captain ends up delaying the flight 10 minutes to straighten everything out as the agents wanted him to leave the gate with an open seat (which I could obviously take). All said and done, Capt. Jim and F.O. Christy went WAY beyond the call of duty to help me get home. My hat is off to this crew. If all United employees care as much as these pilots (and the FAs...they were a fantastic bunch), United will not fail.
We even got into ORD early! Nice JOB!

This is how professionals treat others. Way to go 'Jim' and 'Christy'. If we all did this for each other, imagine how much better our collective QOL would be. I hope that we can all emulate the example of this great crew.

 

[AWACoff]

Wrong, the POSITIVE SPACE aca captain was IN the actual jumpseat. That's why I said it was wrong in my previous post. There were no revenue passengers left at the gate...just an open seat that the aca captain didn't take for some reason. I'm guessing the captain noticed something was amiss which is why he got me on the flight. Learlove, I certainly wouldn't mind if a paying passenger forced me to miss the flight. But the jumpseat is not to be used for company business. The aca captain seemed to be doing everything he could (on the phone with his CP, etc.). I am quite puzzled as to how this boiled down this way. The moral of the story though is that there are still employees at United that give a dang, dang it all.

 

[crosscut]

Re: Re: United goes out of their way

This is how professionals treat others. Way to go 'Jim' and 'Christy'. If we all did this for each other, imagine how much better our collective QOL would be. I hope that we can all emulate the example of this great crew.

Treat unto others as you wish them to do unto you – concept some of those fine UAL guys & gals were not always familiar with before ch11. I’d hate to burst you all’s goody-goody 2 shoes emotional exchanges here, but the bottom line was – throughout my United Express employment I had commuted & the camaraderie described above did not exist. While I always have treated jumpseat as a privilege, NO mainline flight would ever be delayed to accommodate a jumpseater back then. So, gentlemen, let’s call a spade a spade…better yet, why don’t we ask ourselves why they haven’t always been so “helpful?” I’ll start: b/c prior to ch 11 some poor rich united boys & girls thought they were irreplaceable. Today whoever they would otherwise be turning away MAY BE their only employment lead tomorrow. Unless they want to keep stepping over their own d!cks - of course, they’ll go out of their way…

This is in no way to take away from those whose efforts were sincere as it must have not been easy keeping grounded when their & UAL’s success was imminent.

 

[Dan CFI/CFII]

I HAVE to chime in here...

Since I read people extolling United's service in Chapter 11... I honestly don't have time to explain what UAL did to me (it has yet to be told in under two hours--literally), but I'm meeting with a Lawyer this next week to hopefully get UAL to move a bit to rectify the situation. What they did or did not do isn't particularly important here, the amazing thing is that United Airlines, as a company, failed to provide the barest of service to me, and ended up costing me a veritable fortune to get home (1/8 of the amount on my W-2 lthis year, mind you).

This wasn't a single incident, I dealt with MANY UAL employees, in different countries, cities and departments. Not one of them was helpful in the least, until an agent moved my seat to be next to my brother (after the "Service Director" specifically assigned us seat apart.) I hardly call that above average service, and yet, it was at the time.

But my experience isn't the biggest problem UAL is facing (as I will most definately not travel the friendly skies again). I know of a company that spends nine million dollars each year at United alone, and they are shopping for a bizjet. The specifically want to get away from UAL, but a little from other lines as well. The reason isn't the TSA, or lost time--it is the service of UAL.

Honestly, I can't believe that UAL is still afloat at all with the way we've been treated (and we've been dealing with attempting to get the problem fixed for two and a half weeks since the incident). I've turned down rather important things just to avoid flying on a United airplane.

I sure hope UAL can pull through, but I honestly can't see how that will happen. If their service doesn't get MUCH better soon, they'll be losing all the guys with laptops. Have you ever heard an airline employee tell a customer "there's nothing more I can do to help?" I have. Three times, in the same day, when there were still empty seats on an airplane (mine). you only get to say that once to a "1K" passenger before they take thier business elsewhere.

[RANT=OFF] Seriously, I am amazed that there exists something able to get me so worked up, but I'm gonna git me my money! Good luck UAL--you'll need it.

Dan

PS-I'd make a good radical I figure. Seems like I can rant with the best of them!

 

[FearlessFreep]

It's called morale. UAL's is painfully low at this point in time. With pay cuts especially regarding the cabin crew (not to be confused with flight crew) , the other ground support services, and the customer services agents service will be very strongly effected. These people were not being paid the astronomical salaries the flight crews were being paid so taking additional cuts is very painful. This all relates to morale. At this point those people probably feel like they either will not have a job in the near future or that the sacrificies that they have had to make are just not worth it. My heart goes out to them.

Unfortunately this poor morale will kill the company. I don't see that there is anything that they can do to improve the situation.

I sincerely hope that UAL will survive and prevail through these dark times.

The government should be bolstering up both United and American. These two companies were stabbed by Osama Bin Laden's dagger on September 11, 2001. We should not let them bleed to death. They are also the namesakes of our aviation industry. AMERICAN & UNITED! It would be a crime to let them die. Once again it would diminish our presence in the world.

 

[crosscut]

The government should be bolstering up both United and American. These two companies were stabbed by Osama Bin Laden's dagger on September 11, 2001. We should not let them bleed to death. They are also the namesakes of our aviation industry. AMERICAN & UNITED! It would be a crime to let them die. Once again it would diminish our presence in the world. [/B]

Panam was "stabbed," too (Lockerbie) – I don’t remember the Gov-t “NOT letting them bleed to death.” BTW, Panam was also a “namesake” and a bigger one, too. Just as many would argue that it was as much “of a crime to let them die.” Oh, and… Panam’s disappearance didn’t diminish our presence in the world either, b/c the healthy ones filled in.

One thing I'll agree on is their morale, or lack of.

 

[av8instyle]

landed half way down the runway huh??

I'm sure the dude doesn't know exactly how far down the runway or how close to mins the jet was. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that when the jet breaks out and you touch down five seconds later that it was pretty sh!tty. It also doesn't take Chuck Yeager to look outside and see the runway remaining markers. And I doubt he was the only pilot to ever be in the back seat and wonder if the pilot flying was gonna keep floating all the way to the end of the runway if it took that to get a grease job.

Greasers are nice, but not at the expense of useless concrete.

Give a guy a break.

 

[dashtrash]

Putting a dead-head in the jump is common procedure at many companies. Even by contract. It sucks!

 

[Chas]

Hey bigshots you know who you are...

Ive been commuting JFK to Sea and back for 12 years every 10 days . We were landing on 31 right at Jfk and wheels touched down as we approached theJET Blue Terminal ( Delta intersection)as per the APT diagram. As far as the weather I was listening to channel 9 and could hear ATC.

 

[skykid]

Crosscut, I have sat up front in the right seat for many years and observed dozens of United captains deal with United Express jumpseaters. Since I commute on and off and jumpseat extensively, I am very sensitive to the way jumpseaters are treated. I have to tell you I don't see any difference in the way we treat jumpseaters and the way anybody else does it. I have sat jumpseat with American, Delta, Southwest, Northwest, Airtrain, Continental, US Airways, ASA, and everyone under the banner of United Express. I've always treated the crews with respect, they have always treated me with respect. I've taken alot of good natured kidding from some of the rival crews I jumpseated with and have seen alot of pilots with zero personality. So what? I'm convinced that if you go out looking to be treated poorly, you'll find just that. When your back is turned almost every United crew says this about United Express - " I don't see why we can't fill every empty seat with those guys like they do for us." Sorry you have had some bad experiences.

DANCFI/CFII, I would love to hear your story, and then hear the other side of the story. Alot of folks don't want to hear that United led in on time arrivals for majors in 2002, and Jan & Feb this year so far, while improving in other catagories such as complaints, intent to repurchase, and mishandled bags. I'm not saying it is true in your case because I have no clue, but I can't tell you the number of times I've listened with empathy to a customer complain only to find out later... the rest of the story, i different. I have observed 3 pesky truths that seem to hurt all airlines - you can't control weather, people make mistakes, and machines break. I have heard several airline employees (not just United - I jumpseat alot!) tell customers "there is nothing else we can do." In EVERY case I've wondered how the gate agent kept their temper and said that instead of something rude right back at cha. I hope you get your problem resolved and are treated fairly.

FearlessFreep, you must be flying United alot more than me - I'm not observing the low morale. I'm averaging 15 flights a week. I come in contact with 100s of employees every week - cleaners, pilots, gate agents, flight attendants, crew desk, mechanics, and baggage handlers. 2 weeks ago, United set 4 internal records in on time performance, in a stretch where we already led the industry for 14 months. Is the low morale driving that? I'm thinking it might be pulling together to survive and laughing about it. I would bet the farm I speak for thousands of pilots at United when I say I would work for free to cram it up Gordon Bafoon and teflon Don Carty's backside for lobbying against us. And that is nothing against American and Continental employees - I know dozens of them and repect all. We finally have ememies outside the company, and that is good for morale.

 

[FearlessFreep]

skykid,

I don't fly United that often though I have noticed on a number of flights recently that the morale seems alot lower. Prior to the industry downturn it was a bit more upbeat. It is not that I have had bad service, it is just that I can see that the whole situation has a very negative effect on the people. I know that with that low morale and someone having a bad day that some people may end up coming up a bit short on service, hence the complaint that initiated this thread. For me I have noticed that the cabin service, and not that I require more than a glass of water has become a bit brusk. I can see the frustration and stress in the peoples faces, I know that it must be very hard on them.

If anything I rather fly United and have paid a bit of a premium for that.

 

[FearlessFreep]

To everyone on this thread:

Today has marked the first time anyone has had the audacity to private message me because they took offense to what has been posted. I am absolutely appalled by this action.

I have gotten into heated exchanges with people previously on other occasions and have never had this happen. In these previous exchanges with people we may have had contradictory opinions or feelings but I always felt that we were all compatriots and could learn from each other in the open exchange of ideas and opinions be them dissenting or not.

Chas has seen fit to PM me and I would assume others as well. As I see that he has posted his rhetoric here publicly which was what was PM'ed to myself.

A single suggestion to Chas:

If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

Take Care, Good Luck To Us All & Fly Safe! (This includes you too Chas)

 

[typhoonpilot]

AWAcoff:

I'm glad you had a good experience on the jumpseat at United, but in the few times that I have jumpseated United over the years they have been less than spectacular. I think Crosscut has hit the nail on the head. Since they are bankrupt it has changed their holier than thou attitude.

During the United/USAirways merger talks I was denied a jumpseast by United soley for being a USAirways pilot. Politics should never enter into who gets the jumpseat, yet this 747-400 captain decided that I ( a lowely 737 F.O. ) was some kind of a threat to his wonderful job and lifestyle. Hey, news flash, it wasn't my decision to have United buy USAirways. Why penalize me ?

Another time in the mid 90s when I was commuting to San Francisco a senior captain at United offered me his jumpseat if I would pay his cost to ride in back. It was something like $10.00. Now I don't know about you people, but I thought that was real cheap, especially coming from a senior captain that was making four times as much money as I at the time.

United did have a good jumpseat policy well before some of the other majors. It took American and Delta sometime into the 90s to open their jumpseats. For that reason I had always thought United pilots were a step ahead, but over the years they have gone out of their way to disprove that thought. Hopefully they survive this bankruptcy. Hopefully we all survive these difficult economic times and remember that we are all in this together and should treat each other with courtesy and respect.

Typhoonpilot

 

[Chas]

Hey fearless

Fearless So what I PM 'd you .Since you decided to be a BABY and tell everyone Why dont you show everyone the "Offending Message" Where does the word Audacity correlate to that message I sent you?If I still had the message I would post it for all to see. Post a copy of the message and let everyone decide what is the big deal. You need to grow up Its apparent your post is an attempt to blackball me from this site You owe it to everyone to post my PM now that you made these statements .. By the way In the interest of full disclosure WHAT ARE YOUR FLYING CREDENTIALS Why is it a big secret??? As far as cant stand the heat what heat are you talking about . In my post I simply said a pilot landed long I was explaining to you how long touching down on JFK 31R at delta intersection anyone with a brain and eyeballs can see its long ! I guess when someone has my life in his hands it should not concern me ??If YOU or any other pilot here on this board was on that plane they too would have thouight the same thinhg. FEARLESS or not .
I admit I am only a commercial pilot with about 380 hours who owns his own plane but again I ask WHAT ARE YOUR CREDENTIALS??? Chas

 

[skykid]

typhoonpilot, sorry you had some bad experiences trying to jumpseat. I've heard about bad experiences on other airlines jumpseats too. I think you can chalk it up to a few bad apples everywhere, and not one group as a whole. I'm one of the guys who comes up and meets you if you are sitting in uniform in the gate area. I can't tell one uniform from another, frankly because I don't care who's who.

 

[crosscut]

Crosscut, I have sat up front in the right seat for many years and observed dozens of United captains deal with United Express jumpseaters. Since I commute on and off and jumpseat extensively, I am very sensitive to the way jumpseaters are treated. I have to tell you I don't see any difference in the way we treat jumpseaters and the way anybody else does it. I have sat jumpseat with American, Delta, Southwest, Northwest, Airtrain, Continental, US Airways, ASA, and everyone under the banner of United Express. I've always treated the crews with respect, they have always treated me with respect. I've taken alot of good natured kidding from some of the rival crews I jumpseated with and have seen alot of pilots with zero personality. So what? I'm convinced that if you go out looking to be treated poorly, you'll find just that. When your back is turned almost every United crew says this about United Express - " I don't see why we can't fill every empty seat with those guys like they do for us." Sorry you have had some bad experiences.

Hey man, it takes to be respectFUL to be respectED & your cabin crews’ hospitality stood out (ice-cold coffee mochas by Starbucks? um um good) but it’s those FEW unreasonable instances of friction w/flight crews for no apparent reason (details excluded) that I felt I had to dilute the overwhelming “out of their way” response as the credit was not given where it was due. As for the rest of the several years of jumpseating, " I don't see any difference in the way you treat jumpseaters and the way anybody else does it" either. As for other airlines – it’s just that one expected better treatment from a “parent” airline than just another reciprocating airline (be it American, ASA, etc). Good luck!

 

[Jetsnake]

I also had a rather nice experience with UAL
jumpseating last month, I had introduced myself
with the Captain prior to him going down the jetway.
I informed him that I would only take the jumpseat
if my wife could get on (SA). And if she couldn't I would
wait for the next flight. He was even polite enough
to want to meet my wife, very polite in every manner
mentionable.

As it looked as if we were not going to get on board
because they were full. We were called to the podium
at the last minute. The CSR had one seat available and
the jumpseat. There was another couple waiting to get
on board also. The CSR told the other couple the same
thing. Asked the gentleman if he was jumpseat qualified
and he responed "Why Yes." (Turns out he wasn't)

The other couple had priority over us, no big deal,
It's SPACE AVAILABLE. But he had told the CSR they didn't
want to split up.

When the CSR found out he wasn't qualified to jumpseat,
and they weren't going on this flight, she FLAT out refused
to get us on. The CSR said I had checked into to late and
this would make the flight late. It was now 12:45PM and
we had been trying to get out of PHX since 6:00AM.
When I introduced the Captain to my wife, we told him how
long we had been here attempting to get out.

As we waited in the terminal, I'm checking on other ways to
get out of PHX on my cell, The Captain, came out about 5
minutes later, looked at us and shook his head in disgust.
He headed to the podium and what he said I have know idea.

What I do know is this, This Captain came over and handed
my wife a ticket for First Class and ask me if we were ready to
go. He also apologized for the CSR's piss poor performance.
And said that this would be dealt with accordingly.
All said, this was one of the most enjoyable jumpseat rides
I have had in, well; ever actually.

While we left the gate 20 minutes late, we still arrived 5
minutes early.

For that, my hat goes off to this Captain, I'll do the same
thing shortly, except for the First Class ticket.
I take that back, everbody is First Class and should treated
as such. No matter what there seat assignment.

Jetsnake