United-Continental Process Agreement

[pilotgolfer]

7-B. Job​

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Opportunities.
(i) If either Continental or United intends to hire new Pilots. it will first offer​

employment lo​

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fin such positions in seniority order to Pilots on furlough from the​

other ​

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Airline. Acceptance or rejection of such an off:er Of failure ro qualify will
not affect a Pilot's recalJ right~ or plac~mcnt on the Integrated Seniority List​

(which ​

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shall be based upon his seniority position al the Pilar's oliginating​

Airline).​

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A P110t accepting an offer under this provision will be sUbjecl to the​

normal background and employment requirements of the employing Airline.​

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TIle​

Pllot will be an employee of the employing Airline, within the applicable ALPA
counell for that Airline. bur will not be required to serve or complete a probation
peliod. Such Pilot will be paid​

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the greater of (1) the actual hourly pay rate he
was receiving on the date of his furlough, or (2) the hourly pay rate to which his
years of service at the employing Airline otherwise entitles-
(ii) No Pilot shall be entitled to more than two (2) offers of employment pursuant
to this Section 7-8. Jf a Pilot declines the first offer, the employing Airline will​

not​

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contact him for a second offer until he provides at least thirty (30) days notice
to the employing Airline in wliting of his desire to re-enter the hiring process. At
that time he wilJ be eligible for the next available offer in seniority order.​

(iii)​

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Pilots employed pursuant to thilS Section 7-8 will exercise scniori[y for all​

purposes at the employing Airline in the ​

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seniority order of their orlgina~g​

Airline but junior to all Pilots who were on the seniority list of the employing
Airline prior to the Merger Agreement Date. Upon implementation of the lSL
Pilots will exercise seniority pursuant to thelf position on the lSL. All Pilots hired​

by​

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the employing Airline after the Merger Agreement Date who are not Pilots
employed pursuant to this Section 7-8 will exercise their seniority for all purposes
junior to all Pilots who were on either seniority list prior to the Merger Agreement​

Date.​

(iv) Notwithstanding Section 27, Part2.A.2, B.2 or C.2 of the Continental​

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eRA, all
Pilots on either the United Pilots' or Continental Pilots' Seniority List as of the​

Effective​

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Date of this Agreement employed by Continental shall be eligible for
Medical. Dental and Vision Plan coverage on the Pilot's first day of Active Service.​

t 1

 

[calfo]

I wonder if we'll get any takers... they'd have to have pretty low self-esteem to want to work here.

200 positions on the new bid?? It's going to be very quiet in the whore-houses in San Luis, if all the piano players decide to leave and go back to flying...

 

[Phrogs4ever]

Sit reserve in Newark and get a 737 type rating, step right up!

 

[DontFeedTheBear]

Sit reserve in Newark and get a 737 type rating, step right up!

or Houston, 57 IAH737FO, 22 EWR737FO, and both are just as junior. There will be more of these positions as senior 737 peeps bid to other A/C.

 

[densoo]

I wonder if we'll get any takers... they'd have to have pretty low self-esteem to want to work here.

You're right about that. A low self esteem is a REQUIRMENT.

 

[Ex737Driver]

You're right about that. A low self esteem is a REQUIRMENT.

When you allow mgmt to make you feel like your not worth it, they have won. When you allow mgmt to dictate to you how you perceive yourself, they have won. You you allow mgmt to keep you from holding your head high above the ******************** level, they have won. When you allow mgmt to force you see the crap they offer as the only alternative, they have won. When you allow mgmt to conquer and divide, they have won. When you join all others in allowing you to be out down, you will never win.

Come on, we are better than that.

 

[bluefin]

I wonder if we'll get any takers... they'd have to have pretty low self-esteem to want to work here.

200 positions on the new bid?? It's going to be very quiet in the whore-houses in San Luis, if all the piano players decide to leave and go back to flying...

When youve been shown the street twice and cannot find a decent job to take care of the family because of the economy, you will take it! If it is a guaranteed paycheck and benies, I will gladly take it for my family, not me or any one else, having a paycheck right now and taking care of the family out weighs QOL and many other things. When you don't get a regular paycheck, you have no QOL!

 

[Flopgut]

Ex737drvr is right. If you have a self esteem problem then Jeff has you right where he wants you. Airline pilots [all of us] aren't being paid what we desreve right now. So use that as motivation to change things. That time is now. This is not just a contract. This is time to call the loan. The money we are demanding is not something we're asking for, it's accounts recievable. Services have been rendered and the bill is overdue to be paid. It's going to be time to add a late penalty PDQ....

 

[whymeworry?]

I think there will be takers, no doubt. But I don't believe the ones that do accept the job will not have any clue what they're getting themselves into. The informed pilots know how crappy a life it is at CAL to be on reserve. Those pilots will stay away. But the uninformed (of which I'm sure there are quite a few) will jump in with blinders on. Unfortunately for them, they are in for a world of hurt. I wouldn't wish our grotesque reserve system on my worst enemy (well, ok, maybe on my worst). It sucks balls. Rolled days off, no rights, no work rules, fatigue calls that end up in lost pay, inability to afford housing in the bases that offer reserve, tired-hungary-layovers in crappy domestic hotels, the list goes on. IMO, these pilots will be on reserve for a least a year after completing training, maybe longer. Junior line holders won't fare all that much better, flying mostly red-eye trips that are incredibly fatiguing, and built to FARs.

Our concessionary contract has almost no work rules. This will be a rude-awakening for any UAL pilots, especially the senior ones of that furloughed group whom are offered the positions first.

I suppose if someone really needs a job they'll be happy to jump at the offer. However, with plenty of global contracts out there in Asia paying tax-free dollars much higher than a CAL Captain would make, why would a pilot want to "return" to the UAL system as the most junior pilot on CAL property without any benefit of seniority to the merger SLI process (per the TPA), etc? There is plenty of money to be made elsewhere if funds are the motivating factor. Most of my buddies in Asia and the M.E. are taking home well over $16,000/ mo working for various carriers. Good luck trying to make half that in gross in the US. Not to mention the reduced days off a jr pilot ends up getting if he or she is commuting to reserve. Most EWR reserve assignments begin with a 0400 call window. Reserve pilots have to commute in the day prior to get in position, on a bad weather week that could mean commuting in two days prior, or perhaps 2-3 additional legs to get to work. Suddenly that glorious "major-airline pilot gig" is only giving 6-8 days off per month, rather than the expected 12. Throw in training that month and you could be down to much less. I once did 8-9-9 and I wasn't even on reserve. That is, I had 8 days off one month, 9 the next and 9 the month after that... all due to various bs training assignments. That's 3 months in a row BELOW the contractual minimum of 12 days off per month, AS A LINEHOLDER, due to loopholes in the contract that favor the management. We train on our days off at CAL. But you get a whopping 2 hrs 24 min for those training periods so I guess I shouldn't be complaining right? 2:24 for 10 hrs in the sim building playing "you-bet-your-job". Oh, and they expect you to study in your off time too.

 

[whatitdoing?]

I say welcome. It'll just fuel this melting pot of pissed off pilots and help us anyway. But I wouldn't wish reserve at CAL on anyone. It's horrible.

 

[pilotgolfer]

I think there will be takers, no doubt. But I don't believe the ones that do accept the job will not have any clue what they're getting themselves into. The informed pilots know how crappy a life it is at CAL to be on reserve. Those pilots will stay away. But the uninformed (of which I'm sure there are quite a few) will jump in with blinders on. Unfortunately for them, they are in for a world of hurt. I wouldn't wish our grotesque reserve system on my worst enemy (well, ok, maybe on my worst). It sucks balls. Rolled days off, no rights, no work rules, fatigue calls that end up in lost pay, inability to afford housing in the bases that offer reserve, tired-hungary-layovers in crappy domestic hotels, the list goes on. IMO, these pilots will be on reserve for a least a year after completing training, maybe longer. Junior line holders won't fare all that much better, flying mostly red-eye trips that are incredibly fatiguing, and built to FARs.

Our concessionary contract has almost no work rules. This will be a rude-awakening for any UAL pilots, especially the senior ones of that furloughed group whom are offered the positions first.

I suppose if someone really needs a job they'll be happy to jump at the offer. However, with plenty of global contracts out there in Asia paying tax-free dollars much higher than a CAL Captain would make, why would a pilot want to "return" to the UAL system as the most junior pilot on CAL property without any benefit of seniority to the merger SLI process (per the TPA), etc? There is plenty of money to be made elsewhere if funds are the motivating factor. Most of my buddies in Asia and the M.E. are taking home well over $16,000/ mo working for various carriers. Good luck trying to make half that in gross in the US. Not to mention the reduced days off a jr pilot ends up getting if he or she is commuting to reserve. Most EWR reserve assignments begin with a 0400 call window. Reserve pilots have to commute in the day prior to get in position, on a bad weather week that could mean commuting in two days prior, or perhaps 2-3 additional legs to get to work. Suddenly that glorious "major-airline pilot gig" is only giving 6-8 days off per month, rather than the expected 12. Throw in training that month and you could be down to much less. I once did 8-9-9 and I wasn't even on reserve. That is, I had 8 days off one month, 9 the next and 9 the month after that... all due to various bs training assignments. That's 3 months in a row BELOW the contractual minimum of 12 days off per month, AS A LINEHOLDER, due to loopholes in the contract that favor the management. We train on our days off at CAL. But you get a whopping 2 hrs 24 min for those training periods so I guess I shouldn't be complaining right? 2:24 for 10 hrs in the sim building playing "you-bet-your-job". Oh, and they expect you to study in your off time too.

Well let's fix it. I know its easier said than done...just one of the many things on the list for a new contract.

 

[densoo]

Come on, we are better than that.

You're right, many are better than what I said and many more are getting better than that. CPO doors plastered with their proposal shows that something is happening.

When you listen to guys in ops brag about picking open time when you're furloughed and standing right there, when those on the property gut part of a contract for their own benefit (no medical, first year $31/hr pay, 5-year pay scales, reserve rules), then there's a tendency to lose respect for the group you work in.

I hope all 1500 UAL guys get to CAL. Those are all "no" votes for the first draft of the JCBA. Maybe they'll bring a fresh perspective to the group.

 

[Flopgut]

Any chance the flight and duty time makes CAL reserve better? Any opinions? I'm quite sure the FAA hasn't indicated that reserve pilots will be required to take up residence in the airplane, so it can't get worse. Maybe these recalls can skip the BS CAL scheduling dishes out.

 

[densoo]

Our concessionary contract has almost no work rules. This will be a rude-awakening for any UAL pilots, especially the senior ones of that furloughed group whom are offered the positions.

I'm sure this is a big reason why it took so long for management to start hiring these pilots. They're going to bring a you've-got-to-be-kidding-me attitude to the CAL group. And for sure they're going to warn their UAL friends that if any CAL work rule survives in the JCBA, then "no" on the JCBA.

 

[contrail67]

What is the deal with Guam....commutable schedules? Is there extra pay for being over there?

 

[densoo]

Any chance the flight and duty time makes CAL reserve better? Any opinions? I'm quite sure the FAA hasn't indicated that reserve pilots will be required to take up residence in the airplane, so it can't get worse. Maybe these recalls can skip the BS CAL scheduling dishes out.

I can think of one right off, which is the 30-hour domicile rest in the 7-day lookback. CAL's current is a simple 24-hour and it doesn't have to be in domicile. Having to get the reserve back to domicile occasionally will cost them.

 

[densoo]

Any chance the flight and duty time makes CAL reserve better? Any opinions? I'm quite sure the FAA hasn't indicated that reserve pilots will be required to take up residence in the airplane, so it can't get worse. Maybe these recalls can skip the BS CAL scheduling dishes out.

Short call reserve reduced by an hour. Harder to "double pump." Can't release a reserve to 9-hours of rest to do a redeye--if released to an assignment differing from the PAW it looks like 14 hours rest.

(c) For short call reserve,
(1) All time within the reserve availability period is duty.
(2) The reserve availability period may not exceed 14 hours.
(3) No certificate holder may schedule and no reserve flightcrew member on short call reserve may accept an assignment of a flight duty period that begins before the flightcrew member's next reserve availability period unless the flightcrew member is given at least 14 hours rest.

 

[densoo]

Any chance the flight and duty time makes CAL reserve better? Any opinions? I'm quite sure the FAA hasn't indicated that reserve pilots will be required to take up residence in the airplane, so it can't get worse. Maybe these recalls can skip the BS CAL scheduling dishes out.

The way I read this one, they won't be able to mandate that reserve pilots check their schedule after 1500 everyday if they are not actually in a PAW during that time. They're going to have to set a PAW and stay with it throughout the work block, and may have a harder time whipping the reserves schedule around.

In defining a rest period, the ARC included the condition that a flightcrew
member be free from all contact during a rest period. The proposed definition means that the certificate holder cannot contact a flightcrew member nor can the flightcrew member be required to contact the certificate holder during a rest period.​

 

[Flopgut]

Awesome. Obviously you're the right guy to ask. Thanks!

 

[pilotgolfer]

Ex737drvr is right. If you have a self esteem problem then Jeff has you right where he wants you. Airline pilots [all of us] aren't being paid what we desreve right now. So use that as motivation to change things. That time is now. This is not just a contract. This is time to call the loan. The money we are demanding is not something we're asking for, it's accounts recievable. Services have been rendered and the bill is overdue to be paid. It's going to be time to add a late penalty PDQ....

I've been thinking about this "job opportunity" for a long time now. I don't know how its going to go down. I am lucky enough to have a job right now that I enjoy. It doesn't leave any cushion in the budget from month to month...but I'm home 15-17 days a month.

The reserve rules at CAL make me cringe. I am about 280 from the bottom of the UAL list...so this might be a moot point. I just don't see how the senior guys at UAL would willingly jump into the meat grinder of a reserve system. I get it that some guys are out of work and this might be the best option available right now.

I'm just wondering...will this weaken our bargaining power with the company if 200 UAL pilots willingly enter into this. Will Smisek and his lawyers see this as "hey the United guys are willing to work under these rules, so it can't be so bad?" I'm just worried that this is going to stretch out the JCBA negotiations even further.

Any thoughts?