United career progression

[Andy]

Well, I got a PM from 'ol UF calling me out on the founding of SIU's aerobatic team. On another webpage, he lists himself as "Clubs: Founder - SIU Aerobatic Team" under his college education spanning 1965-1969. I won't bother linking to that webpage; I'll let UF do that if he desires - personally, I can't take much more of the Johnny Cash song playing on it.
The RWAA wasn't even founded until 1982, and there's no mention of UF as a founder. http://www.avtech.siu.edu/pages/rso.html

Perhaps UF can dig up a link that cites him as the founder? I sure can't.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The RWAA is the umbrella under which the Aerobatic team is associated with SIU. I certainly had nothing to do with founding RWAA. The collegiate aerobatic program and the SIU team were founded about 7 years ago.

So you see, ANDY shot from the hip regarding the Aerobatic Team and my participation, as much as calling me a liar. And now he won't even apologize for his haste to discredit me without the facts. Is this what should be expected from a graduate of the USAFA? Is that what you have been taught on my nickel? Come on ANDY, say you made a mistake.

 

[pipe]

Oh really! If that is so and you are so confident in that belief, then why did ALPA get an imunity provison written into the new age 60/65 law? Why did they feel it was necessary if there was no question about ALPA's guilt on this issue? And when that part is stricken down as it may be, what do you think will happen?

ALPA can not take a position in support of something that is against the law just because the majority of the Union wants to. Surely you know better than that!

If the majority of the Union vote to pay a minority group half the pay of the others, and later the Feds so no that wasn't right because it violated that groups constitutional rights, then the minority group will be made whole for the wrong-doing. That is just the law. And for years, particularly since 11/23/07, ALPA/APA and others broke the law regarding age discrimination by advocating a postion that was a lie and they knew it to be a lie. Also, their postiion was contrary to the Union's position of non-discrimination. It may take time, but this issue may cost the Unions real money. And just think, you were a part of this failed effort to preserve discrimination. Congratulations on your success.

You are truly clueless.

The legal protections were the only way the industry would allow passage of this law. Without it, all of the backward retraining or passover pay would have made this too financially ponderous to even consider. Truthfully, you have ALPA's support to thank as the wedge that finally drove this BS off-center for you old codgers.

I'm sure you're aware that laws that may threaten the financial health of a business if enacted are rarely enforced.

PIPE

 

[Andy]

The RWAA is the umbrella under which the Aerobatic team is associated with SIU. I certainly had nothing to do with founding RWAA. The collegiate aerobatic program and the SIU team were founded about 7 years ago.

So you see, ANDY shot from the hip regarding the Aerobatic Team and my participation, as much as calling me a liar. And now he won't even apologize for his haste to discredit me without the facts. Is this what should be expected from a graduate of the USAFA? Is that what you have been taught on my nickel? Come on ANDY, say you made a mistake.

UF, on the other webpage, you clearly imply that you founded the SIU aerobatic team back in the late 60s when you were an undergrad. As you well know, the aerobatic team didn't come into existance until ~2000. Even so, I have searched for any, ANY independent source that would credit you with founding the SIU aerobatic team. Zippo. Prove that you founded the team; I don't believe you. I've searched multiple places and have found nothing. I have caught you quibbling multiple times on this board. And as per the standard modus operandi of a pathological liar, you deny or change the story once caught. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_you_tell_if_someone_is_a_pathological_liar

UF, let's be clear. You are a pathological liar. You fit the classic description. I'd dig up some of your old posts on this site where you were clearly quibbling, but you'd reply with your standard backpedaling.

Ladies and gentlemen, my apologies that this thread has become hijacked. This is getting beyond childish. I used to hate UF. Now I feel more pity than anything else for him. Guys, it's time to shut down this thread - let's give UF the last word. UF, you have the floor ...

 

[Yuppyguppy]

I'm really surprised at the anger in some of the FI members in their replies to posts. These replies make me wonder if those posts are from members who can not handle the truth. When I ask others to use caution regarding a change from your current job to a UAL pilot job, on account of the current state of affairs at UAL, some chose to want to "kill the messenger." I have said I wish it wasn't as bad as it is but that would be a lie. Do you only want to hear fairy tales about how great it will be at an airline and how they will love you. And maybe even some BS about how you'll be promoted soon. Is that what is expected? Do the FI members want BS or some words of caution before they make major commitments to leave a perfectly good corporate job or a nice senior captain position with a Regional, or to leave a good job you like in the military? I believe that even ANDY has chosen to stay in the military rather than return to his UAL job.

I"m clipping your wings undaunted flyer...period. After this post you are ignored. Thanks be to God you are retired! Please go do something constructive like play golf or fish out of your boat we have ZERO interest in your comments or your lack of respect for UAL TK and the training. I've been to 6 airlines UAL training is very very good.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

I have searched for any, ANY independent source that would credit you with founding the SIU aerobatic team. Zippo. Prove that you founded the team; I don't believe you. I've searched multiple places and have found nothing. Guys, it's time to shut down this thread - let's give UF the last word. UF, you have the floor ...

OK. Here is everything you can use ANDY. These are two links and an email address.

The following link lists all the rules that I personally developed for the program.
http://www.iac.org/programs/collegiate_rules.html

And the following shows the position of Chairman of the program in an article written about the team.
http://www.iac.org/news/2003%20-%2001_21%20-%20SIU%20Aerobatic%20Team%20Receives%20Award.html#TopOfPage

There is really no news story on line that shows anyone as the founder because I really didn't feel any need to ever release such a story or a need to make a big deal about that subject. It was the press about the team and their success that was important.

If the above isn’t enough, here is the email address of the current IAC Collegiate Chairman - Charles Rodriguez. You can ask him questions if you wish. I 'm sure he will reply promptly. [email protected]


Andy: I am really quite surprised that you would have said you have hated me or anyone ever. I have no hatred for you or any of the FI members. Maybe I hate Osama bin Laden, but that’s it. Personally, I would have no problem sitting down and having a Mai Tai (MiaTia if you prefer) with any FI member and probably laughing about how foolish the personal attacks have been. You and Pipe have both been suspended for such reasons (against me) and actually I think it is just something to laugh about where a member went over the line.

So really, I hope you all have a nice career in aviation. I certainly have and I encourage others to pursue the aviation business too, just not necessarily the airline pilot business, maybe corporate is best for some people. Airline pilot is only OK if you totally love to fly all the time and are satisfied with school teacher wages.

There is, in fact, a worldwide shortage of pilots so if you’re qualified, pilots should feel as though they're “in the middle of their own acre of diamonds.” Just pick one up and run with it. If it turns out to be flawed, drop it and you’ll quickly find another.

And regarding UAL, to be fair, they always treated me fine except for screwing me out of my retirment (no big deal), and I never failed a single checkride in my career. They also tried to replace us all with replacement pilots from the outside too. So personally, I should have no complaints, right! But from my recent posts you can see there are new concerns. These are not just my trivial concerns over things like the past pensions, they are the new concerns of many. Certainly you have heard these same issues before from different sources, even from your own Union.

It's really sort of funny and tragic but some FI members are very quick to call others liars, call them names like selfish, greedy, scumbags, gummers, and so forth; or they may say that they hate or pity a fellow member. This is really something I just don't understand from educated people. Can't these members express themselves without such tactics as name-calling, personal attacks and unfounded accusations? This same problem may explain why the Unions of the different airlines can not unite their membership any longer. The pilots are their own enemies. Just attend a Union meeting sometime. There isn’t anyone there because the members have lost interest over the same tactics I see here are FI. Good luck in your efforts but unless the tactics are changed, I don't expect much of a future for the profession.

 

[PCL_128]

Oh really! If that is so and you are so confident in that belief, then why did ALPA get an imunity provison written into the new age 60/65 law? Why did they feel it was necessary if there was no question about ALPA's guilt on this issue? And when that part is stricken down as it may be, what do you think will happen?

ALPA can not take a position in support of something that is against the law just because the majority of the Union wants to. Surely you know better than that!


If the majority of the Union vote to pay a minority group half the pay of the others, and later the Feds so no that wasn't right because it violated that groups constitutional rights, then the minority group will be made whole for the wrong-doing. That is just the law. And for years, particularly since 11/23/07, ALPA/APA and others broke the law regarding age discrimination by advocating a postion that was a lie and they knew it to be a lie. Also, their postiion was contrary to the Union's position of non-discrimination. It may take time, but this issue may cost the Unions real money. And just think, you were a part of this failed effort to preserve discrimination. Congratulations on your success.

Dear senile old geezer,

The language was included in the bill specifically because of litigious old scumbags like yourself that would sue everyone and their mother despite not having any decent case. Defending against lawsuits costs lots of money, even if your opponent doesn't have a legitimate case. The RJDC eventually settled for a pittance, but the years and years of legal wrangling cost the Association dearly. Preventing such ridiculous litigation from the beginning was a very smart move, despite my overall dislike of the age change.

But for you to even discuss suing the union is unbelievable at this point. Your precious age change legislation never even would have happened if ALPA didn't champion it at the end. Oberstar was acting on orders from Prater, whether he or ALPA will ever admit it or not. And now you want to sue them for giving you exactly what you've wanted all these years! Pathetic. Prater stabbed the rest of us in the back to help a small minority of the membership. Representatives like me did our best to support the membership on this, but Prater eventually prevailed against us and fu--ed over the majority of the membership. And for his efforts, you want to attack the union and bankrupt it. You really have no shame.

 

[2ndGenPSA]

Can this not be taken care of via private message? You are boring us and taking up our precious time with your personal argument.
Cheers!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Dear senile old geezer,

The language was included in the bill specifically because of litigious old scumbags like yourself that would sue everyone and their mother despite not having any decent case. Defending against lawsuits costs lots of money, even if your opponent doesn't have a legitimate case. The RJDC eventually settled for a pittance, but the years and years of legal wrangling cost the Association dearly. Preventing such ridiculous litigation from the beginning was a very smart move, despite my overall dislike of the age change.

But for you to even discuss suing the union is unbelievable at this point. Your precious age change legislation never even would have happened if ALPA didn't champion it at the end. Oberstar was acting on orders from Prater, whether he or ALPA will ever admit it or not. And now you want to sue them for giving you exactly what you've wanted all these years! Pathetic. Prater stabbed the rest of us in the back to help a small minority of the membership. Representatives like me did our best to support the membership on this, but Prater eventually prevailed against us and fu--ed over the majority of the membership. And for his efforts, you want to attack the union and bankrupt it. You really have no shame.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't your post agree with my contention that you and the union failed in your efforts, dispite all the money given to Oberstar and so many others?

And if ALPA is guilty of breaking the law should they be held accountable? Or should they just be given a free pass? That was my question.

Can you please just answer the questons without name calling. When you use those tactics it indicates that you can not give a quality answer to the question.

 

[PCL_128]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't your post agree with my contention that you and the union failed in your efforts, dispite all the money given to Oberstar and so many others?

Negative. The union got exactly what they wanted: an age change. After Prater pushed the EC and EB into changing the policy, it was a foregone conclusion that the change would happen, because ALPA was really the only force in Washington holding it up. Did I personally fail in my own efforts? Yes, I did. I, along with many other reps from different airlines, fought hard to pass resolutions to stop this godforsaken policy change before it happened. But Prater still managed to do it.

And if ALPA is guilty of breaking the law should they be held accountable?

I repeat: ALPA did not break any law. Your question is irrelevant.

Can you please just answer the questons without name calling.

With most people, I would. But you are a special kind of scumbag. People know of you across the industry for you selfish attitudes and ideas of pulling up the ladder behind you. I think of you as being no better than a SCAB. Just speaking to you is distasteful.